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-   -   The Pro Football Focus Top 101 Players of 2011 (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52811)

Ness 05-03-2012 11:57 PM

The Pro Football Focus Top 101 Players of 2011
 
I thought this was interesting.

1. Aaron Rodgers, QB, Green Bay Packers
2. Justin Smith, DE, San Francisco 49ers
3. Drew Brees, QB, New Orleans Saints
4. Calvin Johnson, WR, Detroit Lions
5. Darrelle Revis, CB, New York Jets
6. Rob Gronkowski, TE, New England Patriots
7. Terrell Suggs, DE/OLB, Baltimore Ravens
8. Eli Manning, QB, New York Giants
9. Larry Fitzgerald, WR, Arizona Cardinals
10. Jared Allen, DE, Minnesota Vikings
11. Jason Peters, OT, Philadelphia Eagles
12. Von Miller, OLB, Denver Broncos
13. Tom Brady, QB, New England Patriots
14. NaVorro Bowman, ILB, San Francisco 49ers
15. Maurice Jones-Drew, RB, Jacksonville Jaguars
16. Cameron Wake, OLB, Miami Dolphins
17. Jason Pierre-Paul, DE, New York Giants
18. Evan Mathis, OG, Philadelphia Eagles
19. Geno Atkins, DT, Cincinnati Bengals
20. Patrick Willis, ILB, San Francisco 49ers
21. Jimmy Graham, TE, New Orleans Saints
22. Chris Myers, OC, Houston Texans
23. Trent Cole, DE, Philadelphia Eagles
24. Wes Welker, WR, New England Patriots
25. Lardarius Webb, CB, Baltimore Ravens
26. DeMarcus Ware, OLB, Dallas Cowboys
27. Carl Nicks, OG, New Orleans Saints
28. Derrick Johnson, ILB, Kansas City Chiefs
29. Arian Foster, RB, Houston Texans
30. Johnathan Joseph, CB, Houston Texans
31. LeSean McCoy, RB, Philadelphia Eagles
32. Brian Cushing, ILB, Houston Texans
33. Troy Polamalu, S, Pittsburgh Steelers
34. Marshal Yanda, OG, Baltimore Ravens
35. John Abraham, DE, Atlanta Falcons
36. Sione Pouha, DT, New York Jets
37. Victor Cruz, WR, New York Giants
38. Clay Matthews, OLB, Green Bay Packers
39. Aaron Hernandez, TE, New England Patriots
40. Fred Jackson, RB, Buffalo Bills
41. Daryl Smith, OLB, Jacksonville Jaguars
42. Steve Smith, WR, Carolina Panthers
43. Matt Forte, RB, Chicago Bears
44. Cortland Finnegan, CB, Tennessee Titans
45. Ray McDonald, DE, San Francisco 49ers
46. Nick Mangold, OC, New York Jets
47. Julius Peppers, DE, Chicago Bears
48. Ben Roethlisberger, QB, Pittsburgh Steelers
49. Darren Sproles, RB, New Orleans Saints
50. Hakeem Nicks, WR, New York Giants
51. Tamba Hali, OLB, Kansas City Chiefs
52. Jason Babin, DE, Philadelphia Eagles
53. Jordy Nelson, WR, Green Bay Packers
54. J.J. Watt, DE, Houston Texans
55. Adrian Peterson, RB, Minnesota Vikings
56. Marques Colston, WR, New Orleans Saints
57. Calais Campbell, DE, Arizona Cardinals
58. Ray Lewis, ILB, Baltimore Ravens
59. Tyron Smith, OT, Dallas Cowboys
60. Antonio Brown, WR, Pittsburgh Steelers
61. Percy Harvin, WR, Minnesota Vikings
62. Brent Grimes, CB, Atlanta Falcons
63. Mike Wallace, WR, Pittsburgh Steelers
64. Aldon Smith, OLB, San Francisco 49ers
65. Duane Brown, OT, Houston Texans
66. Eric Weddle, S, San Diego Chargers
67. Joe Thomas, OT, Cleveland Browns
68. James Harrison, OLB, Pittsburgh Steelers
69. Brodrick Bunkley, DT, Denver Broncos
70. Adrian Wilson, S, Arizona Cardinals
71. Bryan Bulaga, OT, Green Bay Packers
72. Jairus Byrd, S, Buffalo Bills
73. Richard Seymour, DT, Oakland Raiders
74. Matt Ryan, QB, Atlanta Falcons
75. John Sullivan, OC, Minnesota Vikings
76. Stephen Tulloch, ILB, Detroit Lions
77. Jay Ratliff, DT, Dallas Cowboys
78. Carlos Rogers, CB, San Francisco 49ers
79. Sean Weatherspoon, OLB, Atlanta Falcons
80. Champ Bailey, CB, Denver Broncos
81. Matthew Stafford, QB, Detroit Lions
82. Andrew Whitworth, OT, Cincinnati Bengals
83. Kevin Williams, DT, Minnesota Vikings
84. Tony Gonzalez, TE, Atlanta Falcons
85. Ray Rice, RB, Baltimore Ravens
86. Paul Posluszny, ILB, Jacksonville Jaguars
87. Kam Chancellor, S, Seattle Seahawks
88. Joe Haden, CB, Cleveland Browns
89. Philip Rivers, QB, San Diego Chargers
90. Haloti Ngata, DT, Baltimore Ravens
91. Chris Long, DE, St Louis Rams
92. Marshawn Lynch, Seattle Seahawks
93. Asante Samuel, CB, Philadelphia Eagles
94. Alan Branch, DT, Seattle Seahawks
95. Cam Newton, QB, Carolina Panthers
96. London Fletcher, ILB, Washington Redskins
97. Brian Orakpo, OLB, Washington Redskins
98. Josh Sitton, OG, Green Bay Packers
99. Richard Sherman, CB, Seattle Seahawks
100. Erin Henderson, OLB, Minnesota Vikings
101. Chris Gamble, CB, Carolina Panthers

Monomach 05-04-2012 12:21 AM

This thread is quickly going to get a lot fo people who have no idea how PFF grades plays.

EVERYONE REMEMBER, this list is based solely on a player's individual production in 2011, nothing else. For example, it's not saying that NaVorro Bowman is a better linebacker than Patrick Willis; it's saying that he had a more productive year because he led the NFL in defensive stops while Patrick Willis missed a significant amount of time.

vidae 05-04-2012 01:17 AM

My boys DJ and Tamba reppin in the top 51, what whaaaaat.

Borat 05-04-2012 01:29 AM

Here comes the :crapstorm:

Bixby (Thumper) 05-04-2012 01:49 AM

Evan Mathis > Patrick Willis?..


:coolface:

Monomach 05-04-2012 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bixby (Post 2985181)
Evan Mathis > Patrick Willis?..


:coolface:

PFF has never said that Evan Mathis is a better player than Patrick Willis.

...but your troll face says you knew that.

Bixby (Thumper) 05-04-2012 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach (Post 2985193)
PFF has never said that Evan Mathis is a better player than Patrick Willis.

...but your troll face says you knew that.

In a list titled "Top 101 players of 2011", Evan Mathis is ranked ahead of Willis. Doesn't that imply Mathis > Willis? They're ranking players, right? And they're saying Mathis played better than Willis, right?

Quote:

--> 18. Evan Mathis, OG, Philadelphia Eagles
----------------
-->20. Patrick Willis, ILB, San Francisco 49ers
:whistle:

Monomach 05-04-2012 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bixby (Post 2985204)
In a list titled "Top 101 players of 2011", Evan Mathis is ranked ahead of Willis. Doesn't that imply Mathis > Willis? They're ranking players, right? And they're saying Mathis played better than Willis, right?



:whistle:

Fine. I wanna play, too!

How is Lardarius Webb a top 25 player and the #2 corner in the league? DIDN'T EVEN MAKE THE PRO BOWL! Champ Bailey has made 11! Where's he? 55 spots lower?

:evil_laugh:

Caddy 05-04-2012 03:02 AM

Not enough Kuhn.

Monomach 05-04-2012 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caddy (Post 2985208)
Not enough Kuhn.

The top 53 would all be Packers, but there were injuriezzZZzZ.

prock 05-04-2012 03:08 AM

Surprised to see 6 Vikes on the list, mainly Sullivan and Henderson. Love it though.

Bixby (Thumper) 05-04-2012 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach (Post 2985207)
Fine. I wanna play, too!

How is Lardarius Webb a top 25 player and the #2 corner in the league? DIDN'T EVEN MAKE THE PRO BOWL! Champ Bailey has made 11! Where's he? 55 spots lower?

:evil_laugh:

Webb > Bailey. Agreed.
Mathis > Willis? Agree? :arf:

Caddy 05-04-2012 03:47 AM

No Bucs on the list. I'm not shocked, but still...



Ness 05-04-2012 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caddy (Post 2985224)
No Bucs on the list. I'm not shocked, but still...



I have faith in Freeman for 2012.

stl9erfan 05-04-2012 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bixby (Post 2985216)
Webb > Bailey. Agreed.
Mathis > Willis? Agree? :arf:

I didn't see the Eagles play that much last year so I can't speak to Mathis. As to Willis though, it is fair to point out he missed a few games with a hamstring injury. So maybe if they're measuring total impact on a season they're giving the edge to a guy who played more than Willis last year? (To me, that's also the only way ranking Bowman over Willis makes sense. Both were awesome, but what the Niners defense asked of them was radically different. Willis could've more or less done what Bowman did as a sideline to sideline player, but I'm not at all sure Bowman could've done what Willis did in pass coverage over the middle, matching up in man coverage against TEs, frequently.)

TimD 05-04-2012 07:08 AM

wow Sione Puoha is rated really high. I know he had a great season, I just wasn't expecting to see him in the top 100, let alone the top 50 (and above Mangold)

Monomach 05-04-2012 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bixby (Post 2985216)
Webb > Bailey. Agreed.
Mathis > Willis? Agree? :arf:

Again, it's based solely on 2011 production. The folks at PFF are well aware that Patrick Willis is a better player than Evan Mathis, but they also recognize that Mathis had a better year in 2011.

Willis missed significant time. Mathis was the best run-blocking left guard in the NFL and was top ten among all guards in pass blocking. He didn't allow a single sack all season, if that makes it easier to believe. The problem is that no one really notices guards unless they screw up because they're not sacking people, making tackles, or throwing touchdowns.


Quote:

Originally Posted by TimD (Post 2985265)
wow Sione Puoha is rated really high. I know he had a great season, I just wasn't expecting to see him in the top 100, let alone the top 50 (and above Mangold)

That's because run-stuffing nose tackles don't make highlight plays that draw attention to them. Surprisingly, Pouha was the best DT in the league at stopping the run last season.

Same dealio for Brodrick Bunkley down at #69. He has a stat sheet that says 43 tackles and nothing else, but he was the #2 DT against the run last season.

49erNation85 05-04-2012 11:48 AM

no tebow? pfff

lowlife 05-04-2012 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness (Post 2985225)
I have faith in Freeman for 2012.

More faith than I have


eaglesalltheway 05-04-2012 01:09 PM

Evan Mathis had the benefit of Peters to his left and (even though he was a rookie) Jason Kelce (who is supposedly one of the smartest football players Reid has ever coached... entire career, not just with Philly) on his right. Hell, once Danny Watkins assumed RG and settled in, he was a much more impactful Guard than Mathis. Mathis is extremely overrated, I don't really care how they evaluate linemen or the process they take, having him over a guy like Carl Nicks makes no sense to me, and I'm a ******* Eagles fan, lol. If anything, I think Shady should be a little higher than Mathis, Shady in the low thirties/high twenties and Mathis in the late thirties/early forties. Mathis is incredibly efficient, but never dominating. To be one of the best guards in the NFL, you need to be more dominating, than efficient, IMO. Doesn't take away from him being a good player, just overrated, IMO.

Monomach 05-04-2012 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglesalltheway (Post 2985757)
Evan Mathis had the benefit of Peters to his left and (even though he was a rookie) Jason Kelce (who is supposedly one of the smartest football players Reid has ever coached... entire career, not just with Philly) on his right. Hell, once Danny Watkins assumed RG and settled in, he was a much more impactful Guard than Mathis. Mathis is extremely overrated, I don't really care how they evaluate linemen or the process they take, having him over a guy like Carl Nicks makes no sense to me, and I'm a ******* Eagles fan, lol. If anything, I think Shady should be a little higher than Mathis, Shady in the low thirties/high twenties and Mathis in the late thirties/early forties. Mathis is incredibly efficient, but never dominating. To be one of the best guards in the NFL, you need to be more dominating, than efficient, IMO. Doesn't take away from him being a good player, just overrated, IMO.

The grading system does not allow for a lineman to gain any benefit from playing next to good players. It's all about whether he did his individual job. If someone screws up next to you, you're not penalized for it. If someone does something amazing next to you, you get no benefit from it.

Watkins: 807 snaps, 43 pressures (one per 18.76 snaps), not even in the conversation for run blocking. -8.4 overall grade, 49th of 64 starting guards.

Mathis: 1024 snaps, 12 pressures (one per 85.33 snaps), best run blocking guard in the league. +34.6 overall grade, 1st of 64 starting guards.

"Much more impactful guard?" More like "really promising for a rookie, but has a lot to work on."

Evan Mathis is criminally underrated because he's basically a perfect technician who opens running lanes so easily that it doesn't get flashy enough for people and doesn't get noticed. What does he have to do to get the proper recognition? Sacrifice being effective in favor of pancaking more guys and getting shown on ESPN once in a while?

re: Nicks- Mathis gave up one more pressure every 200 pass protection snaps as compared to Nicks (or 3 per year) while run blocking much, much, much better. That's why he had a better 2011.

re: using Kelce as a benefit to Mathis...WHERE DO YOU GUYS GET THE IDEA THAT HE'S GOOD IN PASS PRO? I see this stuff about Kelce deserving a pro bowl on eagles forums, but he was pretty bad in pass blocking. He allowed 33 pressures, worst among all centers. Second-worst only gave up 23! The guy is getting just as much undeserved love as everyone with the last name "Pouncey!"

This is people laughing at "Kyle Williams is one of the best DTs of 2010" all over again. Or even more accurately, this is Bengals fans laughing at the idea that Evan Mathis is better than Nate Livings all over again...but they finally got to see how that one worked out for them. You're really lucky that your GM knew better and didn't try to replace Mathis with Ben Grubbs or something. :facepalm:

Iamcanadian 05-04-2012 03:47 PM

Any list that has Tom Brady at #13 and Stafford at #81 is meaningless to me. I don't care what criteria they use, it just doesn't work. They need to go back to pro football 101 because right now, they don't have a clue IMO.

eaglesalltheway 05-04-2012 03:57 PM

I'm not going to argue over their grading system, I understand how they grade linemen, and I see it differently, its as simple as that. Yes, Mathis didn't allow a sack since he was ******* born, it seems, but that doesn't make him the best at anything, really. He is adequate enough to get the job done, but never dominates his opponent. I'd wager a bet he (Mathis) was penalized more than any of our O-linemen last season (ok, at least as much as Peters) both in the run and pass game. It was extrememly frustrating, and those ten yard holding penalties that he had usually stalled out our drives. Watkins had them too, but when I mean more impactful, I'm talking about big play breaking tackles. Watkins had a few plays this year that I haven't seen from an Eagles guard since Shawn Andrews was still playing at a high level that broke Shady or Vick for big plays. Being a great technician is fine, but if you can get to a second blocking assignment, like Watkins showed he can do (and Mathis can't unless he has help at the snap), is in my book, just as valuable as havign that one guy locked onto his opponent an entire play, but unable to do much more than his assignment. That is Mathis, he blocks his assignment very well, in most cases, but rarely is able to make two blocks in one play that spring open a big run, which is what Watkins showed he can do. I'm not saying Mathis is a bad Guard, I'd easily put him in the top ten right now, probably even around the 3-5 range, but #1 Guard, and best interior linemen (and top 20 overall player) in the NFL? No, not at all.

Once again, football is not all about the stats, you know it, you're a knowlegeable enough poster, I think, to understand that.

As for Kelce, IDK where you have seen that Eagles fans wanted him in the Pro-Bowl, because I never saw it, and certainly wouldn't have pushed for it myself, simply because of what you mentioned in his pass pro. He got driven back too much for my liking. But I wasn't talking about his pass pro, I was talking about his intelligence. Having a Center as smart and observant as him helped our entire offensive line out. Outside of Peters, we don't have any true stand out O-linemen, and having a guy like Kelce who can help with blocking assignments and really make your OL gel as a cohesive unit (which is what makes any elite OL elite) really helped our OL. (I'm not saying the Eagles OL was elite last year, btw.)

ChiFan24 05-04-2012 03:59 PM

No Cutty is okay because he got hurt, but no Urlacher or Briggs? This list can put my pubical sac in its mouth and draw upon it succulently.

Sloopy 05-04-2012 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglesalltheway (Post 2985757)
Evan Mathis had the benefit of Peters to his left and (even though he was a rookie) Jason Kelce (who is supposedly one of the smartest football players Reid has ever coached... entire career, not just with Philly) on his right. Hell, once Danny Watkins assumed RG and settled in, he was a much more impactful Guard than Mathis. Mathis is extremely overrated, I don't really care how they evaluate linemen or the process they take, having him over a guy like Carl Nicks makes no sense to me, and I'm a ******* Eagles fan, lol. If anything, I think Shady should be a little higher than Mathis, Shady in the low thirties/high twenties and Mathis in the late thirties/early forties. Mathis is incredibly efficient, but never dominating. To be one of the best guards in the NFL, you need to be more dominating, than efficient, IMO. Doesn't take away from him being a good player, just overrated, IMO.

While I hate PFF, one of their only good qualities is ranking OL.

Obviously stats aren't the end all be all of judging a player but when it comes to OL pressures or sacks allowed or whatever they use is a pretty good metric.

Wouldn't really pay to much attention to any of their other rankings though


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