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-   -   Why are so many people down on Sam Bradford? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52977)

stlouisfan37 05-15-2012 03:05 PM

Why are so many people down on Sam Bradford?
 
So I have come to realize in the last few months that there are a lot of people who are down on Sam Bradford, don't think he will become great, however you want to say it. Before the draft several people made suggestions that the Rams should have traded him and taken Griffin. Now that the draft is over, some people are suggesting that the Rams will end up with a top 5 pick and should then scrap the Sam Bradford experiment altogether and draft a new franchise QB.

I am totally aware of the fact that I am a Rams fan and, therefore, probably think more of him than maybe I should. That being said, I think I am a pretty objective fan for the most part. I have no problem admitting that my team has been the worst team in the NFL for some time now.

I think Sam showed a lot of poise and promise his rookie year. Last year I think it was a huge mistake to bring in a new OC with a completely different system, and I agree with those that say it damaged his psyche some. Now, going into his 3rd year with a 3rd OC, people are starting to compare him to David Carr. I am not ready to go that far yet. I think the real difference is that the new regime in St. Louis has finally brought stability to the team, something that was deeply lacking previously. With all that being said, I do think now is the time for him to have some level of success to rebuild whatever confidence has been lost over the last couple of years.

So I would like to know what it is about Sam Bradford that you do or don't like. Skillset? Mindset? The fact that he is from Oklahoma? Please be honest. I'm trying to keep my personal bias in check here.

killxswitch 05-15-2012 03:09 PM

Combo of the offense he came from and his shoulder problems. I thought he was the #2 QB from that class, so I'm wrong so far. But I still don't think he will ever be more than a middle-tier starting QB.

Lil Quip 05-15-2012 03:13 PM

I was duly impressed with his rookie season. However, he had major injury concerns in college, which seemed to a degree to follow him into the pros.

He was also a spread guy, and I think he is a guy that can't be the most talented guy on offense to have a top flight offense.

Lastly, something that he has absolutely no control over, is that I believe he was the last draft class that had the mind boggling rookie contracts. He just costs a ton compared to Griffin Luck and Newton.

If he can stay healthy I think he can be a good starter, but not great. I think he is plenty talented enough to lead that offense if they stock it with their multitude of picks.

wicket 05-15-2012 03:21 PM

Yards per Attempt, you cant throw for 6 yrds/attempt and have a 54% completion percentage. Bradford just flat out makes to little happen, he doesnt make many mistakes but Bradford is not someone you sorry about on 3rd and 9 and mainly Brees and Rodgers have shown how as a dominant QB that is where you can make a team great, almost by yourself.

vidae 05-15-2012 03:28 PM

I'm not down on him at all. He was in a Josh McDaniels offense with almost no talent around him. Roger Saffold decided to suck and he had no receivers. The only weapon he had was Steven Jackson, and they can't do it by themselves.

Give him weapons, fix up that offensive line, and I think he can be very good, great even.

fenikz 05-15-2012 03:30 PM

His lack of any actual arm strength will always limit him, he simply can not throw a 15+ yard pass with accuracy or zip

And the Rams have used multiple picks on receivers even trading for Brandon Lloyd

Bixby (Thumper) 05-15-2012 03:41 PM

- I never liked him to begin with.
- He is fragile and injury prone.
- He is not in a good situation and the weapons around him are bad. His offensive line is bad.
- He's learning his third offense in three years.
- He's got a noodle arm and a check down mentality. Doesn't threaten defenses vertically.
- His biggest strengths coming out of Oklahoma were his intelligence and his accuracy. The scheme at Oklahoma gave him very defined reads, lots of space, didn't consistently make NFL caliber reads and throws, hasn't been able to run a pro-style offense yet. And he's proven to not be very accurate, especially on intermediate and deep throws.

georgiafan 05-15-2012 03:45 PM

Injury concerns
Arm Strength
Low yards per attempt
Lack of talent around him

Roddoliver 05-15-2012 04:22 PM

53.5% of completed passes. 6.1 YPA. 6 touchdown passes in 10 starts. That's downright scary for a 1st overall pick. I thought a franchise QB could make other players look better.

NY+Giants=NYG 05-15-2012 05:14 PM

I don't mind him. I actually feel bad for him. He stuck on a garbage team who needs to get their collective heads of their butts. 3 new systems in 3 years is miserable! That's not how you develop a franchise QB. Get some talent for the guy!

I can't stand teams that get a franchise QB and do this. We saw that with the Texans and David Carr, and Alex Smith and the 9ers. What was it? 6 or 7 new OCs and that many years? Good god, that's pathetic! I am glad that they went all out and surrounded himself with tons of talent.

The Rams need to do this for Bradford, and then we can see how he does. Let him actually develop in 1 system for once.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock 05-15-2012 06:43 PM

He has ranked bottom 3 in YPA. Simply cannot go down field and when he does his deep ball is ugly.

FUNBUNCHER 05-15-2012 08:42 PM

I'm not down on him. I still think he's going to get it done in a big way in the NFL. It's just that people on this board are in 'immediate gratification' mode with most prospects and if someone doesn't look like a pro bowler by the end of his second year, they're already labeling him a bust.

Even when Bradford came back last season, he wasn't healthy.

Like when people say Bradford has a noodle arm. Where does that come from?? He didn't have a noodle arm as a rookie. FWIW, he's the exact same height and weight as Andrew Luck, with similar arm strength but less athleticism. Bradford has maybe the worst offensive skill talent surrounding him in St. Louis with no real #1 WR.

Also, it's true Bradford is a product of OU's spread, but some player's outperform the expectations of a particular scheme. It surely wasn't the WRs on those teams that made Bradford look stellar.
Bradford was a guy in college who nearly always made the right read, always put the ball where his guy could make a play and intuitively knew how to attack a defense downfield.

Some are down on Bradford IMO because of his less than elite arm, but if he can stay healthy all season IMO Sam is going to exceed the numbers he put up as a rookie.

In five years I expect Bradford to be a top 10 QB in the NFL.

VernonLawson89 05-15-2012 08:53 PM

Because he's a douche

fenikz 05-15-2012 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER (Post 3000210)
Like when people say Bradford has a noodle arm. Where does that come from?? He didn't have a noodle arm as a rookie.

His average completion was actually worse as a rookie and everyone knew he had a weak arm many even rating Jimmy Clausen ahead of him because of it. The Panthers were smart enough to move forward with a new QB when given the opportunity, the Rams don't seem to be willing to do the same because of one 7-9 season

nepg 05-15-2012 09:05 PM

Lots of injuries along the OL and he lost his safety blankets in Amendola and Fells. But he absolutely made zero progress. He wasn't ready for an advanced offense that gave him a ton of responsibility.

To be fair to Bradford, he didn't have an off-season to learn a new offense and the Rams decided to not let McD hire his own offensive staff. So none of the coaches knew the system either and the whole thing was bound to fail.

I think the lack of weapons the Rams had is over-focused, though. They didn't have very proven guys, but they had a good mix of guys that could make plays.

WCH 05-15-2012 09:06 PM

David Carr failed because he couldn't make pre-snap reads. He couldn't do it in college, and he couldn't do it in the NFL. He just couldn't. People should stop trotting him out every time they want to talk about quarterback development gone wrong.

Flyboy 05-15-2012 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bixby (Post 2999715)
- I never liked him to begin with.
- He is fragile and injury prone.
- He is not in a good situation and the weapons around him are bad. His offensive line is bad.
- He's learning his third offense in three years.
- He's got a noodle arm and a check down mentality. Doesn't threaten defenses vertically.
- His biggest strengths coming out of Oklahoma were his intelligence and his accuracy. The scheme at Oklahoma gave him very defined reads, lots of space, didn't consistently make NFL caliber reads and throws, hasn't been able to run a pro-style offense yet. And he's proven to not be very accurate, especially on intermediate and deep throws.

This pretty summed up my thoughts on him as a prospect. I was never a fan of him as a prospect and always found him to be extremely hyped and overrated. Then again, I liked Jimmy Clausen over him so....:(

whatadai 05-15-2012 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenikz (Post 3000254)
The Panthers were smart enough to move forward with a new QB when given the opportunity, the Rams don't seem to be willing to do the same because of one 7-9 season

Or because the cap hit would be ridiculous?

fenikz 05-15-2012 09:46 PM

the fact that rookies are cheaper now makes that excuse stupid

whatadai 05-15-2012 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenikz (Post 3000394)
the fact that rookies are cheaper now makes that excuse stupid

What's cheap rookies have to do with a $20 million cap hit?

descendency 05-16-2012 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatadai (Post 3000527)
What's cheap rookies have to do with a $20 million cap hit?

You don't have to cut him to draft a QB. Obviously, you'd like to get rid of him, but a dome team shouldn't be pathetic on offense. That's basically what they are...

stlouisfan37 05-16-2012 03:10 AM

I appreciate the feedback guys. General opinion on him ranges from "because he's a douche" to "in 5 years I think he will be a top 10 QB."

For what it's worth, I wasn't real high on him coming out of college. I wanted Ndamukong Suh. The only Oklahoma QB I could even think of that did anything in the NFL was Troy Aikman, who spent half of his collegiate days at UCLA. But in hindsight it was the right move. Without him we likely wouldn't have landed Fisher, and without Fisher we wouldn't have landed Snead.

I think he will surprise some, but I doubt he becomes a perennial pro-bowler. I don't think anyone can argue the fact that he was thrust into a less-than-ideal situation with a defensive-minded head coach and few weapons to work with. I like the fact that the new staff has added a couple of pieces, but not gone apeshit crazy in free agency. Whenever a team adds too many pieces at once there are players who get lost in the shuffle. I see the Rams making decent strides this season and then adding another piece or two next year.

whatadai 05-16-2012 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency (Post 3000829)
You don't have to cut him to draft a QB. Obviously, you'd like to get rid of him, but a dome team shouldn't be pathetic on offense. That's basically what they are...

I'm not saying they're not pathetic offensively. Just saying the Rams were stuck between a rock and a hard place. If they drafted Griffin as the successor...there's no logic to keeping Bradford at his $12 million salary this year. But if they traded or cut him they would have gotten $20 million in penalties...so that would have been difficult to swallow too. Not only that, but they would be quitting on him after two years while the fan base doesn't hate him yet. Considering that they haven't really surrounded him with any talent whatsoever, it just wasn't the time to cut ties. That and it's a new staff so Bradford going into his 3rd year and 3rd offense is as much as a crapshoot for success as Griffin going into his rookie year. Not only that...the ransom they got can't be argued against. By dropping 12 draft spots they gained 2 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders while still getting a player they believe will make an immediate impact.

bigbluedefense 05-16-2012 07:21 AM

I don't get it either. He had a very good rookie year, and had a down sophomore year with awful talent around him and a new offense he never fit into.

He went from being great to zomg he suckzzz so quickly here it was unbelievable. I'm still a Bradford fan, have been for awhile, and I think he'll be just fine.

georgiafan 05-16-2012 07:44 AM

Real franchise QB's dont need talent around him to win they make the players around them better. Look at Matt Ryan as a rookie look Stafford he had one of the worst rushing games in the NFL and a avg at best OL.


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