Draft Countdown Forums

Draft Countdown Forums (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/index.php)
-   Pro Football (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=44)
-   -   NFL.com Head Coach power rankings (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53622)

49ersfan_87 08-23-2012 01:27 PM

NFL.com Head Coach power rankings
 
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...content_stream

Before anyone flips out, this is his criteria (for better or worse)

Quote:

These rankings aren't all about what coach has the longest resume. It's who we'd want leading our team and building a staff right now if we owned a team.
Quote:

Top shelf: Bill Belichick, Mike Tomlin and Jim Harbaugh

Next level: Mike McCarthy, Sean Payton, Andy Reid and Tom Coughlin

Knocking on the door: Rex Ryan, Jim Schwartz and Dennis Allen

Middle of the pack: John Harbaugh, Mike Smith, Jeff Fisher, Gary Kubiak, Lovie Smith, Marvin Lewis, Pete Carroll and Ken Whisenhunt

Prove me wrong: Mike Shanahan and John Fox

Need more information: Joe Philbin, Chuck Pagano, Mike Munchak, Greg Schiano, Leslie Frazier and Ron Rivera

The rest: Chan Gailey, Jason Garrett, Norv Turner, Romeo Crennel, Mike Mularkey and Pat Shurmur
My thoughts: there would probably be a lot of shuffling the list around to my personal preferences. But no gaffe is bigger IMO than Dennis Allen being too high. Right now if i was building a franchise i would take John Harbaugh, Mike Smith, Lovie Smith, and maybe Jeff Fisher too. All these guys listed were below Allen on these rankings. A little too much love for a rookie with no HC experience on any level (even college).

Giantsfan1080 08-23-2012 01:34 PM

These rankings are a hot mess. No Coughlin in Tier 1 is a joke. Harbaugh after 1 year is though? Allen knocking on the door already? John Harbaugh and Mike Smith make the playoffs every year but are in the middle tier? Terrible.

Cigaro 08-23-2012 01:41 PM

How Dennis Allen is 'Knocking On the Door' but guys like Ron Rivera still require more time to gauge makes no sense. I don't necessarily object to Rivera's classification, but Allen should definitely be there with him.

K Train 08-23-2012 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 (Post 3096383)
These rankings are a hot mess. No Coughlin in Tier 1 is a joke. Harbaugh after 1 year is though? Allen knocking on the door already? John Harbaugh and Mike Smith make the playoffs every year but are in the middle tier? Terrible.

coughlin was a game away from being fired last year, and other years before that too...leaving him off the list is refreshing to see that the superbowl doesnt skew everyones perception THAT much to forget how often hes been on the chopping block

too much mike tomlin love for me though, id say this is the first year the roster is majority tomlins guys, the first year he finally brought in a staff member of his own choosing to call plays because firing arians was long overdue. We get to see some of the young talent be forced to be put in a position to step up, the cowher boys are dwindling. Glad they extended him for consistency though, i dont think hes far away from the top but i wouldnt put him in the same class with belichick quite yet

fear the elf 08-23-2012 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 (Post 3096383)
These rankings are a hot mess. No Coughlin in Tier 1 is a joke. Harbaugh after 1 year is though? Allen knocking on the door already? John Harbaugh and Mike Smith make the playoffs every year but are in the middle tier? Terrible.

Pretty much this.

Giantsfan1080 08-23-2012 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K Train (Post 3096396)
coughlin was a game away from being fired last year, and other years before that too...leaving him off the list is refreshing to see that the superbowl doesnt skew everyones perception THAT much to forget how often hes been on the chopping block

too much mike tomlin love for me though, id say this is the first year the roster is majority tomlins guys, the first year he finally brought in a staff member of his own choosing to call plays because firing arians was long overdue. We get to see some of the young talent be forced to be put in a position to step up, the cowher boys are dwindling. Glad they extended him for consistency though, i dont think hes far away from the top but i wouldnt put him in the same class with belichick quite yet

No he wasn't. The media blows thing out of proportion all the time. Coughlin has beat Belichick twice in the biggest stage of the game yet he's not as good? Ok.

NY+Giants=NYG 08-23-2012 02:16 PM

So the guy with 1 year in the league is at the top, while a HC with 2 super bowls is in the 2nd tier? Yeah, this list makes tons of sense!

NFL.com needs to get their "experts" to post better stuff. Just like Adam Rank posting an article how we will draft a franchise QB. LOL.

This is what NFL.com needs to cut down on. BS stuff like this:



Giants could be making a move for a much-needed QB
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...-muchneeded-qb

49ersfan_87 08-23-2012 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG (Post 3096430)
So the guy with 1 year in the league is at the top, while a HC with 2 super bowls is in the 2nd tier? Yeah, this list makes tons of sense!

NFL.com needs to get their "experts" to post better stuff. Just like Adam Rank posting an article how we will draft a franchise QB. LOL.

Its not that he's better than Coughlin, its if you're starting a franchise right now, which HC would you want?

FWIW, if i was starting a franchise and had my pick of any NFL HC, my top tier would be Bellichek, Harbaugh (SF), Tomlin, Coughlin, McCarthy, and Payton. Reid, Schwartz, Ryan, Harbaugh (BAL), Mike Smith would be next. Too lazy to keep on going.

vidae 08-23-2012 02:23 PM

RAC gets no love! But then again he was in Cleveland before here..

NY+Giants=NYG 08-23-2012 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 49ersfan_87 (Post 3096432)
Its not that he's better than Coughlin, its if you're starting a franchise right now, which HC would you want?

FWIW, if i was starting a franchise and had my pick of any NFL HC, my top tier would be Bellichek, Harbaugh (SF), Tomlin, Coughlin, McCarthy, and Payton. Reid, Schwartz, Ryan, Harbaugh (BAL), Mike Smith would be next. Too lazy to keep on going.

The guy who has more success? However, it's a loaded question because Coughlin is the oldest HC in the league. He does have success, and did this with two different franchises. So I am VERY happy with him.

I was the few who loved the hire after that fool Jim Fasshole was hired, and I always liked what Coughlin brought to the table. If there was one thing I did hate is his choices of coordinators. That's one thing which made me very mad. But overall, I'd take him, I am happy with him, and loved the hire. I don't see any reason why I'd take anyone else. Great HC, proven winner, and still wants to coach. So I'd def. stick with the guy we have now.

cmarq83 08-23-2012 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 (Post 3096410)
No he wasn't. The media blows thing out of proportion all the time. Coughlin has beat Belichick twice in the biggest stage of the game yet he's not as good? Ok.

I like Coughlin, he's definitely in a tier below Belichick, but he has as good of a claim for the #2 spot as anybody else. He simply doesn't get the consistency year to year that BB does.

NY+Giants=NYG 08-23-2012 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmarq83 (Post 3096481)
I like Coughlin, he's definitely in a tier below Belichick, but he has as good of a claim for the #2 spot as anybody else. He simply doesn't get the consistency year to year that BB does.

Year to year success record wise isn't the same but head to head Coughlin is 5-1 and 2-0 SBs. Pretty damn good record against a guy everyone seems to count as # 1 HC in the NFL.

49ersfan_87 08-23-2012 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG (Post 3096444)
The guy who has more success? However, it's a loaded question because Coughlin is the oldest HC in the league. He does have success, and did this with two different franchises. So I am VERY happy with him.

This list isn't a past success ranking, its a future potential ranking. Otherwise he would just list coaches in order of superbowl victories and other accomplishments achieved. And you're absolutely right about Coughlins age. I can't 100% speak for the writer but if Coughlin was say, 50, he might even be the 1st or 2nd guy on the ranking. Regardless, he's still underrated and all things equal, deserves to be on that 1st tier.

NY+Giants=NYG 08-23-2012 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 49ersfan_87 (Post 3096502)
This list isn't a past success ranking, its a future potential ranking. Otherwise he would just list coaches in order of superbowl victories and other accomplishments achieved. And you're absolutely right about Coughlins age. I can't 100% speak for the writer but if Coughlin was say, 50, he might even be the 1st or 2nd guy on the ranking. Regardless, he's still underrated and all things equal, deserves to be on that 1st tier.

Well that was my initial claim was he is in the wrong tier. And his past ranking or success reflects what kind of coach he is, and thus any future prediction can be made based on past work.

For example, Harbaugh, obviously the writer likes because of last years success, especially since last year was his first year. No writer would pole vault a first year guy to the first tier if prior work wasn't in consideration.

So you in other words you are using past success for future potential ranking. That's why Coughlin not being in the first tier makes zero sense. 2 SBs and a 5-1 head to head record was the # 1 consensus guy, in Bill B., should elevate Coughlin on that alone.

I am guessing age is the issue, however, Coughlin loves coaching. I suspect he will have to be fired or pushed out before he actually leaves. Maybe like back to back 0-16 seasons may force him out. Other than that I don't see him retiring soon.

The second thing is Coughlin's overall popularity among fans and perhaps some media guys. They still consider him the guy from 2004-2006. Could that be it?

I do agree he is under rated but perhaps it's because of his age and previous attitude before changing. I don't think they will get coach of the year props ever. Though he did get an award from the ESPYs which was cool. Same with our GM, Jerry Reese. Two super bowls for him, and I highly doubt he ever gets Exec of the year or GM of the year.

cmarq83 08-23-2012 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG (Post 3096498)
Year to year success record wise isn't the same but head to head Coughlin is 5-1 and 2-0 SBs. Pretty damn good record against a guy everyone seems to count as # 1 HC in the NFL.

Meh, 2 wins close to 2 decades ago and 3 photo finishes doesn't put Coughlin in BB's class. It's an impressive feat that very few can claim, but at the same time he failed to make the playoffs the 2 seasons prior. I think in to be in the top tier you need consistency and the ability to win the big games. I give Coughlin a ton of props for rallying wildcard teams to the title, but his teams have also been very fortunate along the way. Having a great team play consistent good football throughout the season en route to a title would elevate him into that top tier with BB in my opinion.

NY+Giants=NYG 08-23-2012 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmarq83 (Post 3096522)
Meh, 2 wins close to 2 decades ago and 3 photo finishes doesn't put Coughlin in BB's class. It's an impressive feat that very few can claim, but at the same time he failed to make the playoffs the 2 seasons prior. I think in to be in the top tier you need consistency and the ability to win the big games. I give Coughlin a ton of props for rallying wildcard teams to the title, but his teams have also been very fortunate along the way. Having a great team play consistent good football throughout the season en route to a title would elevate him into that top tier with BB in my opinion.

Still beat the guy, and makes it even more impressive because he can do it or has done it in the past, and as recent as last year. AND.. did it with two different teams. So that's something to respect.

I do agree and have said to people when I talk football, I HATED some of his coordinator choices. That's one fair thing to bring up to against Coughlin. The guy is loyal to a fault and that has affected his overall record. His attention to detail, and ability to motivate his players is though a redeeming factor which is an asset for his.

I believe the league has changed. Now it's about getting on a streak or having some breaks go your way. It's very hard to dominate throughout the season and then also win a SB. Seasons like that are very rare and magical when that happens. I am not sure that's realistic now, with these rules, and in this free agent era.

But I do understand your point. However, football isn't perfect, when you get a chance to win or beat a BB type coach, and you do, then that's huge. If if was that easy, more coaches would be beating Bill B.

Good post though and good debate. Plus rep for you!

fear the elf 08-23-2012 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmarq83 (Post 3096522)
Meh, 2 wins close to 2 decades ago and 3 photo finishes doesn't put Coughlin in BB's class. It's an impressive feat that very few can claim, but at the same time he failed to make the playoffs the 2 seasons prior. I think in to be in the top tier you need consistency and the ability to win the big games. I give Coughlin a ton of props for rallying wildcard teams to the title, but his teams have also been very fortunate along the way. Having a great team play consistent good football throughout the season en route to a title would elevate him into that top tier with BB in my opinion.

I don't think you have a leg to stand on here. The head to head record and 2 Super Bowl wins put him right there in BB's class. Every team is fortunate in some ways when they win big, it's not like this is only true of Coughlin run teams. It just so happens there have been a couple breaks on the biggest stage. And the consistency argument is a little shaky considering the Patriots have had perpetually weak division rivals while the reverse has been true over the same period of time for the Giants. That may influence the up-and-down records the Giants post year in and year out.

bigbluedefense 08-23-2012 04:53 PM

Mike Tomlin is not a great HC. TomTom is a glorified cheerleader on the sidelines.

brat316 08-23-2012 05:01 PM

how is sean payton not up there?

tjsunstein 08-23-2012 05:12 PM

Stopped reading after Tomlin.

49ersfan_87 08-23-2012 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense (Post 3096552)
Mike Tomlin is not a great HC. TomTom is a glorified cheerleader on the sidelines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjsunstein (Post 3096565)
Stopped reading after Tomlin.

Whats so bad about Tomlin?

Brothgar 08-23-2012 05:38 PM

Jim Harbaugh and Rex Ryan are over rated.

Honestly Harbaugh belongs at knocking on the door.

RAC and Chan Gailey will get more love by season's end.

Darth Hoodie belongs in a class by himself as does Tomlin.

Ness 08-23-2012 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 49ersfan_87 (Post 3096576)
Whats so bad about Tomlin?

I don't know. I like him. Probably because he didn't "build the Steelers" like Cower had to do in the early 90's when they had previously fallen off. Tomlin inherited a good team, so I suppose a good amount of people out there think his success was easily obtainable, which I kind of disagree with. Even if you have a talented roster you still have to do a lot to keep it together and maintain that success. Tomlin has done that. George Seifert did this with the 49ers when a lot of key veterans like Tom Rathman, Charles Haley, and Ronnie Lott left shortly after he took over.

cmarq83 08-23-2012 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fear the elf (Post 3096533)
I don't think you have a leg to stand on here. The head to head record and 2 Super Bowl wins put him right there in BB's class. Every team is fortunate in some ways when they win big, it's not like this is only true of Coughlin run teams. It just so happens there have been a couple breaks on the biggest stage. And the consistency argument is a little shaky considering the Patriots have had perpetually weak division rivals while the reverse has been true over the same period of time for the Giants. That may influence the up-and-down records the Giants post year in and year out.

True, but the kind of fortune that the Giants have had in their Superbowl runs isn't the kind that you can expect year in and year out. Look at the Patriots in the early part of the past decade they caught every break imaginable. It directly led to 3 SB titles. Over the last 6 years they've had teams every bit as good as those ones, but haven't had the same kind of breaks and haven't won a title.

I know SB titles are the ultimate goal, but I think wielding consistently good teams is another aspect that you need to look at when evaluating coaches, because in a single elimination format like the NFL has oftentimes the most talented/ best coached teams do not win because as we've said before chance plays such a large role.

However, IMO if you have a Hall of Fame QB and a Hall of Fame Coach it is inexcusable to miss the playoffs any year regardless of division, especially if there are no other great coaches or QB's in the division. The same consistency just hasn't been there with Coughlin coached teams, and I think there is more to that than just the fact that there are good teams in the NFC East.

I think Coughlin is a great coach, and he certainly outcoached BB in the 2007 SB, but he's not quite on the same level. BB has kept a team consistently around 12-4 for a decade while fundamentally changing its DNA multiple times. There is something to that, and I need to see Coughlin coached teams be able to be consistently great week in and week out for more than a couple 4 week stretches in January before I'm willing to move him into that top tier.

KCStud 08-23-2012 08:21 PM

Belicheck is Mike Shannahan 2.0. Can't wait to see his fall to mediocrity after Tom Brady hangs 'em up.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:56 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.