Draft Countdown Forums - September 7th Top-32 Big Board

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September 7th Top-32 Big Board

props on the effort

two things that stood out to me:

1. Aaron Murray over Tyler Wilson...I'm a fan of both but Murray's play to this point doesn't merit him being that high or ahead of Wilson

2. 3 OTs being in the top 12 is a major shock...Lewan struggled big time against Alabama, Wagner is a right tackle at the next level, and Joeckel is an intriguing prospect but not someone I would put in the top half of list much less Top 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by princefielder28 (Post 3108235)

I like Murray over Wilson because of his mechanics. Wilson scares me as a Bobby Petrino disciple who played last season with a ton of weapons on offense; I don't like Wilson's propensity for scrambling with little pressure, the fact that his arm angle constantly changes, or (to a lesser extent) his inconsistent footwork.

Joeckel is the most sound and athletic of the three tackle prospects, and I was really impressed with his performance against Texas last season. Lewan really stands out to me as someone with a killer instinct, while Wagner handles power very well and is sound as a run blocker as well. I think he can stick on the left side in the NFL.

Don't understand how anyone has Logan thomas in the top 20 of their big boards let alone top 10.

Geno Smith omission? I had to hype Bruce Irvin last year, I guess Geno is the guy this year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by justdoit12 (Post 3108256)

Don't understand how anyone has Logan thomas in the top 20 of their big boards let alone top 10.

Now I am intrigued. Please enlighten me on why you feel this way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImBrotherCain (Post 3108282)

Now I am intrigued. Please enlighten me on why you feel this way.

Logan Thomas posted a 140 or better qb rating 6 times last year.
148 against FCS app State 47.4% 2 td 0 int
146 against FCS Arkansas State 63.6% 2 td 2 int
236 against ACC 6-6 Miami 92% 3 td 0 int
147 against ACC 6-7 Wake Forest 53% 2 td 0 int
265 against ACC 8-5 Georgia Tech 53% 3 td 0 int
168 against ACC 8-5 Virginia 61% 2 td 0 int

He played 3 ranked teams last year in Clemson twice and Michigan. Against the only ranked teams he played last year Logan Thomas went for
56-99 56% 613 yards 1 td 4 ints with a 104 qb rating and lost all 3 games. And ill even include his rushing 40 attempts 60 yards 1.5 yards per attempt and 1 td.

The remaining games Logan Thomas posted below a 140 qb average

68 against 5-7 C-USA ECU 40% 0 td 1 int
119 against 7-6 C-USA Marshall 66.7% 0 td 1int
133 against 4-8 ACC Boston College 61% 1 td 0 int
115 against 3-9 ACC Duke 60% 1 td 2 int
131 against 7-6 ACC UNC 59% 2 td 0 int

Here's my scouting report of Logan Thomas from Draft Examiner:

Logan Thomas, Virginia Tech* (6’5”, 255, 4.65)

Positives:

• Outstanding size and bulk; physically reminiscent of Cam Newton
• Looked very composed in his first season as the starting quarterback
• Footwork is surprisingly advanced for an underclassman
• Has an over-the-top throwing motion with a quick release
• Has operated from under center at times in college
• Arm strength is strong enough to make all NFL throws
• Uses the proper amount of touch on the ball; very catchable passer
• Looks to throw first and run second; uses mobility to buy time
• Has strong instincts and a lot of power when running the ball
• Makes sound decisions with the ball on the read-option

Negatives:

• Has only one year of starting experience thus far
• Takes most of his snaps from out of the shotgun
• Misses low too often on his throws (intermediate)
• Makes too many of his throws off of his back foot
• Must learn to protect his body more on the run
• Not quite the same athlete as someone like Cam Newton
• Had some issues with ball security (as well as handling shotgun snaps)

Grade: First round

Last year Logan thomas finished the year with a qb rating of 135 under 60% completions and he played below average competition. Logan Thomas also had a senior OL last year with 2 senior WR that ended up making Camps with different NFL teams and a first round running back in David Wilson. Against tougher competition he played extremely poorly and padded his pedestrian stats playing against inferior competition.

People keep trying to compare him to Cam Newton but I think they forget how good Cam newton really played. The only thing they have in common is their physical attributes. In Cam Newtons first year starting finished 2nd in the Nation in passer rating with 182 rating and completed 70% of his passes. Cam newton threw for 30 td and 7 int. Cam Newton also played better against the tougher teams he played. Cam Newton played in the SEC against 6 different ranked opponents including 3 in the top 10 and the #2 team in the nation.

Thomas is better than you give him credit for... He is only a Junior and should only get better.

The kid was recruited as the top ranked TE in that years recruiting class. He was red shirted and switched to QB to take over after Tyrod left. He is a huge man, good arm strength and deceptively fast.

While currently he might not be as polished as Luck I think he as as much upside as almost every QB in recent drafts. Not to mention he throws one of the prettiest balls I have ever seen.

Just to add on... Check this out
Cams stats against his ranked opponents.

171 against #10 South Carolina 76% 2 td 0 int
179 against #12 Arkansas 71% 1 td 0 int
205 against #11 Alabama 65% 3 td 0 int
208 against #19 South Carolina 61% 4 td 0 int

His 2 other games against ranked opponents
108 against #6 LSU 63% 0 td 0 int
139 against #2 Oregon 59% 2 td 1 int

That gives Cam Newton a 188 qb rating with a 65% completion against just the ranked teams he played with 12 td 1 int PLUS 136 attempts 908 yards 6.6 average and 11 tds RUSHING against JUST his ranked opponents.

Logan Thomas was ranked as a TE in the Recruiting rankings but he played QB in highschool and only played qb when he got to tech.

Quote:

Originally Posted by justdoit12 (Post 3108315)

Logan Thomas played QB in highschool

Okay... This happens a lot in high school.

My point being he was never switched over to anything.

All I am getting at is that he might not be the best QB in the NCAA right now but he sure as hell has the potential to be among the top 3 and thats what the draft is about... Potential.

Yes exactly... you are right. But this isn't a mock draft, he posted his big board which ranks how good the prospects are and I was complaining about people putting him so high on big boards because he has not proved he is that good yet. Right now he is all potential.

Quote:

Originally Posted by justdoit12 (Post 3108322)

Okay that is fair... but you have to remember a big board is how people rank prospects for the draft. So in that case he isn't off his rocker by putting Logan in there as a potential first rounder with his potential and already off the charts measureables.

Yeah your right and everyone is entitled to their own and I can respect that. I just disagree with it. I just don't understand how anyone can be ranked top 10 off just pure potential and no production. Logan does have all the physical tolls and he has yet to do anything other than average with them. Just trying to provide some debate

Quote:

Originally Posted by justdoit12 (Post 3108336)

It was a good debate. Although I am very high on Logan and told Vidae last November I expect him to be the #1 overall pick if he stays to his senior season.

Yeah I can definitely see him going real high if he stays for his senior year but I just can't picture it if he leaves after this year. He has a huge uphill battle to fight this year with losing 4 senior o-line, his top 2 wrs and last game he just lost his top returning wr for the year and doesn't have any rb close to david Wilson 1700 yards rushing, in fact he doesn't have any returning rb with any real game experience. Plus he still has stinespring calling his plays. People that are expecting him to have big production this year are going to be disappointed.

If his relations develops with Fuller though I can see some of that changing. Those two looked like they were developing something real nice.

Tell me what you think of Jonathan Cooper since he's not on your list.

Not enough Vols!

;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones (Post 3108207)

Here's my latest attempt at a top-32 big board. These rankings are largely based off of my offseason film study, with some minor changes made to accommodate week one performances.

September 7th Top-32 Big Board

1. QB Matt Barkley, Southern California (6'1", 230)

Pretty much a unanimous choice, and a good one. I don't think he is a lock to be the top QB taken, but he is definitely the most proven thus far. Surprised to see him listed at 230.

2. DE Barkevious Mingo, Louisiana St.* (6'4", 240)

I think he's a little overrated here, because he's not as complete as some of the other ends in this class. I'm also scared he might be a bit stiff to be a full-time OLB. I think he merits an Aldon Smith-type grade.

3. WR Keenan Allen, California* (6'3", 210)

I like Allen a lot. He has the size, speed hands and polish to be an elite receiver.

4. OT Luke Joeckel, Texas A&M* (6'6", 310)

He is the best OT in a weak crop, but I don't think he's a top ten value yet. Great size and athleticism, but I think he lacks power and could use a lot of technical refinement.

5. FS Eric Reid, Louisiana St.* (6'2", 210)

Great college player but not a top 5 pick. More of a centerfield type, and I don't think he has near the range of an Earl Thomas or Eric Berry.

6. WR Justin Hunter, Tennessee* (6'4", 200)

Great physical tools, but I really need to see him overcome injury issues and dominate the SEC. I would put him in the 10-15 range.

7. QB Logan Thomas, Virginia Tech* (6'6", 260)

Not impressive when I have seen him, but you can't deny his physical talent. To me, he lacks the instincts to maximize his tools. A true boom-or-bust prospect, and I lean towards bust.

8. DT Star Lotulelei, Utah (6'3", 320)

Great, great player who has dominated every time I've watched him play. It's possible he's even a little underrated at 8.

9. DE Jackson Jeffcoat, Texas* (6'5", 245)

This is about right for him. He's got very good but not elite tools and a great motor.

10. OT Ricky Wagner, Wisconsin (6'6", 320)

Way overrated! Not a first rounder to me.

11. QB Aaron Murray, Georgia* (6'1", 210)

Another remarkably overrated prospect. He has sub-standard physical abilities and doesn't blow me away with touch, accuracy or mental processing. A backup at the next level.

12. OT Taylor Lewan, Michigan* (6'7", 310)

I get Lewan love. He had really good feet, great length and a truly nasty demeanor. However, he's been greatly inconsistent throughout his career and had an awful week against Alabama. Might be a bit of a headcase.

13. WR Robert Woods, Southern California* (6'1", 190)

I think you have him rated about right. Good not great physical tools but makes up for it with tremendous guts and football savvy. Profiles as solid No. 1 but phenomenal No. 2 at next level.

14. LB Sean Porter, Texas A&M (6'2", 230)

I'll have to see more of him, but in the A&M games I've watched, I'm not sold.

15. LB Jarvis Jones, Georgia* (6'2", 240)

One of my favorite players in the draft. Great get-off and has an uncanny kanck to finish when applying pressure. I think he's a top ten pick with the potential to be the first pass rusher off the board.

16. FS T.J. McDonald, Southern California (6'2", 205)

Overrated. Lacks great range, should be a second rounder. Kenny Vaccaro is better.

17. CB David Amerson, North Carolina St.* (6'2", 195)

I think you're bailing on him too early. Missed assignments from the safeties caused him to look worse than he was last week.

18. CB Xavier Rhodes, Florida St.* (6'2", 215)

Overrated based on size and speed. Nowhere near the player Jonathan Banks or Johny Adams are.

19. DE Alex Okafor, Texas (6'4", 260)

More physically talented than Jeffcoat, but not as complete a player. I love his upside though, and I think he might end up going higher than JJ.

20. LB Manti Te'o, Notre Dame (6'2", 255)

I love his physicality, but I don't think he's quite as athletic as some of the other ILB prospects that have been high picks and great players in the NFL. I think he'll probably end up in the second round a la Rey Maualuga.

21. OG Chance Warmack, Alabama (6'2", 320)

Best OG prospect in years. Athletic and nasty. He should be a top 20 pick and is easily one of the top 10 overall prospects.

22. CB Johnthan Banks, Mississippi St. (6'1", 185)

Great, instinctive football player who will probably go lower than he should based on speed.

23. DE Sam Montgomery, Louisiana St.* (6'5", 250)

I can't believe there is that much difference between Mingo and Montgomery. Mingo is overrated, Montgomery is underrated.

24. RB Marcus Lattimore, South Carolina* (6'0", 220)

Would be a top ten talent without the injury concerns. If he shows the lateral explosion he did as a freshman, I'd put him back in the top ten.

25. CB Dee Milliner, Alabama* (6'1", 195)

A little meh. Good college player who I think has gotten bailed out on occasion by all the talent he plays around.

26. DE Bjoern Werner, Florida St.* (6'4", 255)

I love him and think he'll be a top 15 pick when he comes out. Great motor, great strength and excellent technique.

27. TE Tyler Eifert, Notre Dame* (6'5", 250)

Stock will be elevated because of weak TE crop. Good all around TE who is not quite an HWS freak. Will not be the matchup nightmare Graham, Gates and Gronk are.

28. DE Margus Hunt, Southern Methodist (6'7", 285)

Strong 5 tech who I need to see more of.

29. DT Johnathan Hankins, Ohio St.* (6'3", 330)

You're kidding me right? Guys with Hankins size, athleticism, production and motor don't last into the late 20s.

30. QB Tyler Wilson, Arkansas (6'3", 215)

Another average QB with inflated college production. Backup

31. C Khaled Holmes, Southern California (6'3", 305)

I feel ashamed because I watch alot of USC games, but I am in no position to offer an opinion on Holmes. I just haven't focused on him enough.

32. OG Barrett Jones, Alabama* (6'4", 305)

Terrific all-around college lineman who I don't think is near the NFL prospect his press clippings would lead you to bellieve. Will have to fit in somewhere as I don't he has either ideal length for a tackle or elite power for a guard.

Guys I would include

Travis Frederick
William Gholston
Bennie Logan
Kawann Short
Geno Smith
EJ Manuel
Tyler Bray
Le'Veon Bell

(Ten characters)