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-   -   Norv Turner = Horrible Game Manager (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53788)

Eazy Picks 09-11-2012 01:08 AM

Norv Turner = Horrible Game Manager
 
4th down, with the ball, 3 second to go, up by a touchdown. You can run any number of plays here...

Shotgun snap, let rivers run backwards for a couple seconds and fall down
Shotgun snap, have rivers just throw a ball deep out of bounds
Run a sweep or something, just make sure the back runs around for 3 secs


What does he do??? probably the riskiest thing he could possibly do, punt the ball. This opens the door for a blocked punt or a PR TD, both things that can plausibly happen. Theres almost nothing that can go wrong outside of a bad snap if they go with one of the other options.

OK, the Raiders didnt block the punt, the Chargers got the W, but its just the typical horrible game management and unfathomable decisions that Norv continues to make and it has cost them games in the past and its gonna keep hapenning. Im a raider fan and really just couldnt believe that Norv would be stupid enough to give us a chance.

ChiFan24 09-11-2012 03:18 AM

They also handed it off twice for no reason. Just take the snap, have Rivers back pedal and kneel before anyone can touch him. Same amount of time comes off the clock and there's infinitely less chance of a disaster.

Xenos 09-11-2012 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eazy Picks (Post 3113332)
4th down, with the ball, 3 second to go, up by a touchdown. You can run any number of plays here...

Shotgun snap, let rivers run backwards for a couple seconds and fall down
Shotgun snap, have rivers just throw a ball deep out of bounds
Run a sweep or something, just make sure the back runs around for 3 secs


What does he do??? probably the riskiest thing he could possibly do, punt the ball. This opens the door for a blocked punt or a PR TD, both things that can plausibly happen. Theres almost nothing that can go wrong outside of a bad snap if they go with one of the other options.

OK, the Raiders didnt block the punt, the Chargers got the W, but its just the typical horrible game management and unfathomable decisions that Norv continues to make and it has cost them games in the past and its gonna keep hapenning. Im a raider fan and really just couldnt believe that Norv would be stupid enough to give us a chance.


It's actually pretty simple. If there was someone back there to receive and return the kick then you try to run it out. Since there was actually no one there, you kick the ball and time runs out just as much since it's a punt and not a kickoff.

Eazy Picks 09-11-2012 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiFan24 (Post 3113363)
They also handed it off twice for no reason. Just take the snap, have Rivers back pedal and kneel before anyone can touch him. Same amount of time comes off the clock and there's infinitely less chance of a disaster.

yep i noticed that too. we managed to stand up the back also and were ripping at the ball hard, he did a good job of holding onto the ball but why take that chance...its no wonder the Chargers have blown so many games they seemingly have in the bag over the years.


On another note, what were the raiders doing calling a timeout with a 1:20 left. They had all 3 timeouts and woulda had a chance to get the ball back without the onside kick working, but because we decided to burn a TO to stop the clock and get the right play on fourth and short, we were put in a situation where converting the onside kick was our only chance. Maybe we dont convert that fourth if we have to hurry-up, but I think you have to take that chance in that situation.

Raiderz4Life 09-11-2012 02:40 PM

Was a little surprised Oakland didn't send a returner back. Even if we had missed the block we still would have had a small chance of a return TD.

WCH 09-11-2012 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eazy Picks (Post 3113332)
4th down, with the ball, 3 second to go, up by a touchdown. You can run any number of plays here...

Shotgun snap, let rivers run backwards for a couple seconds and fall down
Shotgun snap, have rivers just throw a ball deep out of bounds
Run a sweep or something, just make sure the back runs around for 3 secs


What does he do??? probably the riskiest thing he could possibly do, punt the ball. This opens the door for a blocked punt or a PR TD, both things that can plausibly happen. Theres almost nothing that can go wrong outside of a bad snap if they go with one of the other options.

OK, the Raiders didnt block the punt, the Chargers got the W, but its just the typical horrible game management and unfathomable decisions that Norv continues to make and it has cost them games in the past and its gonna keep hapenning. Im a raider fan and really just couldnt believe that Norv would be stupid enough to give us a chance.

This is the obvious move. Just tell him to make damned sure he doesn't fumble.

There's a reason that Norv Turner is stuck with the "Great OC, terrible HC" label.

21ST 09-11-2012 04:55 PM

Yeah. I know

Xenos 09-12-2012 12:18 AM

Dude, it was the right play to call. You don't want your QB out there because he could get injured. And like I said before, it was the right move to punt it considering there was no one to receive it (it was probably also Norv's way of giving one big middle finger to the Raiders' punting unit at the same time). I can't believe I posted twice in such a stupid thread.

Eazy Picks 09-12-2012 01:35 AM

xenos, why would you take the risk of getting a punt blocked. The Saints had a blocked punt for a TD against the Skins near the end of the first half on sunday...Its clearly something that happens. Why would you take that chance?

Then **** it if youre worried about Rivers getting hurt put your back up QB or even your fullback under center and let him take the snap and run backwards a couple yards and fall down. The point is all you have to do is take 3 seconds off the clock, and there are so many plays you can run where is literally no chance of things going wrong, why take the chance on something else. Blocked punts for TDs happen, punt return TDs happen. Ive never heard of a kneel turning into a defensive Td in one play. Who cares if the Raiders didnt have anyone back for the punt return, thats just cuz they decided the blocked punt TD had a better chance than the PR TD and decided to sell out for that. I dont really have a problem with them making that decision.

K Train 09-12-2012 10:02 AM

norv ball or marty ball? which is worse?


or...are they one in the same?!?!?!

Eazy Picks 09-14-2012 02:20 AM

they never shoulda fired marty, they went from a team on the brink of SB contention to a fringe playoff team

bantx 09-14-2012 02:55 AM

Um did anything go wrong? No it worked get over it.

Raiders didn't block it or return it so what's the problem? Could've, would've should've blah blah blah we won the game.

Eazy Picks 09-14-2012 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bantx (Post 3115889)
Um did anything go wrong? No it worked get over it.

Raiders didn't block it or return it so what's the problem? Could've, would've should've blah blah blah we won the game.

so I guess if a coach decided to run the ball instead of going into the victory formation when they have the game in hand, he shouldnt be criticized as long as the running back doesnt fumble?

bantx 09-14-2012 03:16 PM

that's not even the same situation how can you compare the two?


Let Rivers run backwards and hope he doesn't get tackled or fumble? Or punt the ball and have our special do what they're suppose to do as the time expires.

(Shotgun snap, let rivers run backwards for a couple seconds and fall down
Shotgun snap, have rivers just throw a ball deep out of bounds
Run a sweep or something, just make sure the back runs around for 3 secs)

Your 3 suggestions

Rivers runs like a special kid in recess

Have him sit in the pocket and throw a deep ball and maybe get sacked or get flagged for throwing a ball with no WR in the area?

Run a sweep and run the clock out? Possibly fumble?

Please put your resume in for OCoordinator for the Chargers because you have the keys to success and lead us to the promise land.

Eazy Picks 09-14-2012 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bantx (Post 3116184)
that's not even the same situation how can you compare the two?


Let Rivers run backwards and hope he doesn't get tackled or fumble? Or punt the ball and have our special do what they're suppose to do as the time expires.

(Shotgun snap, let rivers run backwards for a couple seconds and fall down
Shotgun snap, have rivers just throw a ball deep out of bounds
Run a sweep or something, just make sure the back runs around for 3 secs)

Your 3 suggestions

Rivers runs like a special kid in recess

Have him sit in the pocket and throw a deep ball and maybe get sacked or get flagged for throwing a ball with no WR in the area?

Run a sweep and run the clock out? Possibly fumble?

Please put your resume in for OCoordinator for the Chargers because you have the keys to success and lead us to the promise land.

like ive already said in this thread...punts turn into touchdowns whether frombeing n blocked or just returns, it happens all the damn time. "Leaving it your special teams to do what theyre supposed to do" is a ridiculous notion. Just because theyre supposed to do doesnt mean there isnt a decent chance they wont. Just like kicking a field goal from close in...sure theyre supposed to hit that every time but we see it over and over again that the kicker shanks it...

Outside of a bad snap or a player on the chargers muffing the ball (which actually hapenned to Rivers in a primetime game last year, where they botched a kneel and lost the game), there isnt much that can go wrong.

Rivers is an NFL athlete and I find it hard to believe that he cant run backwards for 3 seconds and fall down. And if its that big of a concern just run a direct snap to ronnie brown and let him do it, he has experience running wildcat. All he has to do is run backwards for a couple seconds and fall down, I really dont see what can go wrong...

Or the Rivers throw the ball option...You give Rivers 9 blockers, you send one WR on a streak down the sideline and let Rivers throw it over his head out of bounds. Again, whats gonna go wrong?


Maybe Im making too much out of this, but defending the decision to punt is absolutely ridiculous. He took an unnecesary chance, there would much safer ways to end that game. There had already been 3 failed punts in that game (all by the raiders, i know), and Turner still decided to go for a punt as if it was a sure thing. Like I said, Im a Raider fan, and I seriously couldnt believe my eyes when i saw that punt formation come out, I was like wow the game was over and they are deciding to give us an opportunity. We werent able to take advantage, but still, Norv gave us a chance that he didnt have to give us.

bantx 09-14-2012 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eazy Picks (Post 3116288)
Like I said, Im a Raider fan,



ChiFan24 09-14-2012 08:10 PM

^That would probably be a more effective argument if you weren't totally wrong.......just saying.

bantx 09-14-2012 11:56 PM

I'm totally wrong about him being a raiders fan?

Eazy Picks 09-16-2012 02:14 AM

i didnt say im a raider fan so u can laugh at my misfortune...i was just trying to xplain that i was sitting there hoping against hope that thered me a muffed snap or something and wed get the ball back...and then bam norv turner gives us life with an idiotic play call.


all i have to say about norv turner calling plays at the end of games...4th and 1 against the ravens (u know ray lewis and haloti ngata...) in the closing seconds of a game deep in raven territory, what does he call a run up the middle with darren sproles. darren sproles. up the middle. against ray lewis. with the game on the line. the smallest running back in the league. on a power run. against the best run stuffers out there. with the game on the line. thats the best he could come up with. forget antonio gates. or using tolbert or whatever other back he had available. nah lets go with a run straight up the middle with sproles. oh yea in case u dont remember ray lewis stuffed it in the backfield.

Bengalsrocket 09-16-2012 04:33 AM

Running a play you haven't practiced before has an equal, if not more, chance of messing up as running a special teams play.

If Norv had told his offense to just Snap the ball and have Rivers run backwards for 3 seconds, and something DID go wrong, everyone would be calling for his head. They would be saying "Why not just punt there? You pay your players to play, not to run backwards, derpaderphurrrrr!"

Eazy Picks 09-16-2012 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengalsrocket (Post 3117431)
Running a play you haven't practiced before has an equal, if not more, chance of messing up as running a special teams play.

If Norv had told his offense to just Snap the ball and have Rivers run backwards for 3 seconds, and something DID go wrong, everyone would be calling for his head. They would be saying "Why not just punt there? You pay your players to play, not to run backwards, derpaderphurrrrr!"

you pay your players to make whatever plays they have to make to help win a football games. if that involves taking a knee or throwing the ball out of bounds or running backwards then so be it.

If the punt woulda been blocked or returned for a TD, everyone would be calling for his head. no matter what, if it goes wrong, your head will be called for, thats why you want to go with what you think is the safest play in that situation. i really dont think running a 3 second play without turning the ball over is something that takes a lot of practice. they could me behind center and id be able to do it. honestly what can go wrong outside of a bad snap. to me, its not much more risky than a kneel.

punting, theres just a lot can go wrong...I think there have already been 4 blocked punts this year. it happens quite often.


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