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-   -   September 15th: Top 32 Big Board (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53817)

Matthew Jones 09-15-2012 08:45 AM
September 15th: Top 32 Big Board
 
I'm starting to do a lot of catching up on 2012 prospects; here's how my big board looks at the moment:

1. QB Matt Barkley, Southern California

2. LB Jarvis Jones, Georgia*

3. DE Barkevious Mingo, Louisiana St.*

4. WR Keenan Allen, California*

5. OT Taylor Lewan, Michigan*

6. DT Star Lotulelei, Utah

7. FS Eric Reid, Louisiana St.*

8. QB Logan Thomas, Virginia Tech*

9. WR Justin Hunter, Tennessee*

10. WR Robert Woods, Southern California*

11. FS T.J. McDonald, Southern California

12. CB David Amerson, North Carolina St.*

13. OT Luke Joeckel, Texas A&M

14. CB Johnthan Banks, Mississippi St.

15. OT Ricky Wagner, Wisconsin

16. DE Jackson Jeffcoat, Texas*

17. QB Aaron Murray, Georgia*

18. DE Margus Hunt, Southern Methodist

19. LB Manti Te'o, Notre Dame

20. DT Johnathan Hankins, Ohio St.

21. DE Sam Montgomery, Louisiana St.*

22. DE Alex Okafor, Texas

23. WR Marquess Wilson, Washington St.*

24. OG Chance Warmack, Alabama

25. DE Michael Buchanan, Illinois

26. RB Marcus Lattimore, South Carolina*

27. TE Tyler Eifert, Notre Dame*

28. DT Kawann Short, Purdue

29. OG Jonathan Cooper, North Carolina

30. C Khaled Holmes, Southern California

31. OL Barrett Jones, Alabama

32. LB Kevin Reddick, North Carolina

Not ranked: OT Brennan Williams (North Carolina), DT John Jenkins (Georgia), DT Sylvester Williams (North Carolina)

Notes: Jarvis Jones has been moving up; he's highly reminiscent of Bruce Irvin...Taylor Lewan has claimed the #1 OT spot because of his aggressive blocking, but I'm still very high on Luke Joeckel and Ricky Wagner (one of the most underrated prospects in the draft, and who could stick at left tackle in the NFL)...Aaron Murray is in the first round because of his excellent mechanics and release...Margus Hunt is so similar to Adam Carriker it's scary...Johnathan Hankins could move up the board, but he's not particularly dangerous as a pass rusher and defending the run isn't as important as it used to be...Tyler Wilson was just narrowly edged out on the big board; I'm not sure he's worth the first-round commitment...Players in the "not ranked" section are those I haven't seen enough of at this point.

rawdawg 09-15-2012 08:59 AM
Not sure what so many people see in Taylor Lewan. Well, I know what they "see" in him. He's a freaking monster and he is nasty, but is he actually top 5 good? He reminds me some of Nate Solder at this point, who I was not a fan of a couple years ago.

Matthew Jones 09-15-2012 09:13 AM
rawdawg, I don't see much of Solder in Lewan. Solder is a thin, finesse zone-blocking tackle who relies on his impressive athleticism to get the job done. Lewan, on the other hand, is a big, tough, powerful inline blocker with a killer instinct.

Witten4HOF 09-15-2012 09:14 AM
This is a really good class for NT prospects I love me some John Jenkins. He will continue to rise through out the season.

Ozzy 09-15-2012 09:23 AM
4. WR Keenan Allen, California* Has potential but not sure he is good enough to be drafted this high

5. OT Taylor Lewan, Michigan*Very strange ranking, kid go killed against Alabama, played flat out awful. I would be shocked if he even comes out early as a RS junior. Maybe he will turn out and I like him too but after that Bama game, no way he is #1 OT material. I would take Sua-Filo over him and I have not even seen him play yet this year and he has been on a mission for the past two years.

16. DE Jackson Jeffcoat, Texas*Give me William Gholston all day over this guy


22. DE Alex Okafor, Texas Way overrated, I would take many many ahead DE's of this man

23. WR Marquess Wilson, Washington St.*So overrated, easily I would take 10+ receivers over him


25. DE Michael Buchanan, Illinois A guy like Cornellius Carradine is much better than he is I feel





At guard you got super stars there all over the place:

Alvin Bailey Arkansas JR
Travis Frederick Wisconsin JR
Chance Warmack Alabama
Spencer Long Nebraska JR
Patrick Omameh Michigan RS
Jonathan Cooper UNC
Seung Hoon Choi Nebraska
Travis Bond UNC
Omoregie Uzzi Georgia Tech

Not all will come out but a lot of very very good players there potentially. Even more so if one counts Barrett Jones as a guard much less if a guy like Fluker, who maybe cannot handle OT and plays guard because of that, who knows, then they would have even more. One of the best guard groups I have seen in a long time if a few players come out early.



Agree with a lot on the list but those few I highlighted, I have questions with, but everyone is different and looks for different things

rawdawg 09-15-2012 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones (Post 3116496)
rawdawg, I don't see much of Solder in Lewan. Solder is a thin, finesse zone-blocking tackle who relies on his impressive athleticism to get the job done. Lewan, on the other hand, is a big, tough, powerful inline blocker with a killer instinct.
I didn't mean that they were similar type of players. I meant that I think both are/were being hyped up too much because of their impressive physical capabilities. Yet, I don't think either has shown me on the field that they can be dominant NFL LTs, and people are/were ranking them as if they were dominant.

justdoit12 09-15-2012 01:05 PM
Logan Thomas looks like hes going to be moving up on the big board.

tjsunstein 09-15-2012 03:29 PM
Replace Logan Thomas with Geno Smith.

jared3 09-15-2012 03:36 PM
I think DT John Jenkins and CB Dee Milliner are worthy to be in the top 32

holt_bruce81 09-15-2012 05:54 PM
Is Jarvis Jones strictly a 34 LB or could he play Defensive End in a 43? I know it's not really what the Rams need, but after watching Jarvis single-handedly beat Missouri, I want him on the Rams.

Cigaro 09-15-2012 06:01 PM
Going to agree with Ozzy, Lewan got killed and in this class it is hard for me to rate someone who could only play on the right side as the number one at his position.

Also, Barrett Jones is still underrated, IMO.

Witten4HOF 09-16-2012 06:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by holt_bruce81 (Post 3116917)
Is Jarvis Jones strictly a 34 LB or could he play Defensive End in a 43? I know it's not really what the Rams need, but after watching Jarvis single-handedly beat Missouri, I want him on the Rams.
Jones can play with his hand in the ground, I think he can play LB the 4-3 as well. Underestimated in terms of how fluid he is and can legit drop into coverage if needed.

Matthew Jones 09-16-2012 08:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzy (Post 3116498)
4. WR Keenan Allen, California* Has potential but not sure he is good enough to be drafted this high
As a prospect I'd rank him somewhere between A.J. Green and Michael Floyd; Allen has great body control, sticky hands, and an impressive catching radius.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzy (Post 3116498)
5. OT Taylor Lewan, Michigan*Very strange ranking, kid go killed against Alabama, played flat out awful. I would be shocked if he even comes out early as a RS junior. Maybe he will turn out and I like him too but after that Bama game, no way he is #1 OT material. I would take Sua-Filo over him and I have not even seen him play yet this year and he has been on a mission for the past two years.
I did see Lewan struggle against Alabama, and maybe I'm higher than most, but I love his size, strength, and killer instinct. I think he can definitely stick at left tackle in the NFL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzy (Post 3116498)
16. DE Jackson Jeffcoat, Texas*Give me William Gholston all day over this guy
Gholston is a bum; he has one of the worst motors I've ever seen. We just discussed Lewan, check out this video of every snap between Gholston and Lewan last season:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUTxKogtHH0

You can actually see Gholston completely give up on a number of plays. Jeffcoat is significantly more explosive and disruptive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzy (Post 3116498)
22. DE Alex Okafor, Texas Way overrated, I would take many many ahead DE's of this man
I'm a big fan of Okafor's combination of strength and average pass-rushing ability. One comparison that makes some sense to me is Jeremy Mincey, who has averaged six or seven sacks over the past two years with quality run defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzy (Post 3116498)
23. WR Marquess Wilson, Washington St.*So overrated, easily I would take 10+ receivers over him
What impresses me about Wilson is his versatility and ability to get separation down the field. Washington State has used him all over the place, and he's been extremely productive with impressive physical tools as well. Last season, he caught 24 passes of 21 or more yards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzy (Post 3116498)
25. DE Michael Buchanan, Illinois A guy like Cornellius Carradine is much better than he is I feel
I haven't focused too much on Carradine while watching Florida State (usually Werner, Jenkins, or Xavier Rhodes.)

Matthew Jones 09-16-2012 08:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjsunstein (Post 3116781)
Replace Logan Thomas with Geno Smith.
I have Geno Smith ranked as a third round pick or so. His accuracy is impressive but a lot of his success seems to be because of Dana Holgorsen's offense. Smith makes a ton of pre-determined reads to wide open receivers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jared3 (Post 3116792)
I think DT John Jenkins and CB Dee Milliner are worthy to be in the top 32
I didn't rank Jenkins because I haven't watched him all that much. I'm actually going to insert Milliner into the rankings because I completely forgot about him though.

Witten4HOF 09-16-2012 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones (Post 3117454)
I didn't rank Jenkins because I haven't watched him all that much. I'm actually going to insert Milliner into the rankings because I completely forgot about him though.
He has been pretty dominant, I looked at him almost exlusively during the Missouri game and he got some serious push in the pocket against double teams. Another guy who has some burst for being other worldly big, nice sack at the 8:14 mark in the 4th that he split the double and chased down the QB.

I take the other two games with a grain of salt, Buffalo and Florida Atlantic aren't exactly good measuring sticks. The game to watch is going to be the SC game in October.

SF Dolphin Fan 09-16-2012 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones (Post 3117453)
As a prospect I'd rank him somewhere between A.J. Green and Michael Floyd; Allen has great body control, sticky hands, and an impressive catching radius.



I did see Lewan struggle against Alabama, and maybe I'm higher than most, but I love his size, strength, and killer instinct. I think he can definitely stick at left tackle in the NFL.



Gholston is a bum; he has one of the worst motors I've ever seen. We just discussed Lewan, check out this video of every snap between Gholston and Lewan last season:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUTxKogtHH0

You can actually see Gholston completely give up on a number of plays. Jeffcoat is significantly more explosive and disruptive.



I'm a big fan of Okafor's combination of strength and average pass-rushing ability. One comparison that makes some sense to me is Jeremy Mincey, who has averaged six or seven sacks over the past two years with quality run defense.



What impresses me about Wilson is his versatility and ability to get separation down the field. Washington State has used him all over the place, and he's been extremely productive with impressive physical tools as well. Last season, he caught 24 passes of 21 or more yards.



I haven't focused too much on Carradine while watching Florida State (usually Werner, Jenkins, or Xavier Rhodes.)
I think that's a great comparison for Keenan Allen. I really like him a lot as a prospect. In terms of pass rushing only, projecting to the next level, how do you compare Jarvis Jones and Barkevous Mingo? I have not seen enough of Jones yet.

justdoit12 09-16-2012 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones (Post 3117454)
I have Geno Smith ranked as a third round pick or so. His accuracy is impressive but a lot of his success seems to be because of Dana Holgorsen's offense. Smith makes a ton of pre-determined reads to wide open receivers.
Not trying to doubt your overall ability to assess prospects but that statement you made about pre-determined reads is completely baseless. If you consider that offense to be pre-determined reads then every single college qb makes only pre-determined reads.

justdoit12 09-16-2012 12:07 PM
I understand the argument of him passing to wrs not running traditional route trees and being in the shotgun but Geno spends a ton of time reading denseness and calling audibles at the line of scrimmage based on how the defense lines up against them which wouldn't make his reads predetermined.


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