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-   -   Nice article by Bob McGinn on how current NFL has tarnished it's dignity. (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54203)

Ness 10-22-2012 12:44 AM

Nice article by Bob McGinn on how current NFL has tarnished it's dignity.
 
I got this from another forum. Bob McGinn is a reporter that works for the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel covering the Green Bay Packers and has done so for quite some time. I've read a few of his pieces in the past and listened to him all last year when he had a weekly segment on Peter King's podcast. I thought this was a nice piece that every fan should take the time to read. Most folks here will probably already recognize a lot of his observations, but it's nice to see it all in context and sums up how I personally feel on the current status of the NFL. For me it's just begs the question of where are we headed with the league in 15 years or so?

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packe...172987791.html

Scotty D 10-22-2012 12:50 AM

Thank you, this guy just wrote an article of what I've been feeling this season. Its just not the same game anymore. I don't enjoy watching the Saints, Packers, Steelers, and Pats games with the way the rules are right now. There needs to be rule adjustments to help the defense.

TACKLE 10-22-2012 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness (Post 3159485)
For me it's just begs the question of where are we headed with the league in 15 years or so?

I try my best never to think about that.

WCH 10-22-2012 01:05 AM

I actually kind of liked the replacement refs, because they let DBs play more like they played when I was a kid. I'm not saying that's a better way to play, but I enjoyed seeing it again.

PACKmanN 10-22-2012 01:14 AM

These offensives were built by coaches who took advantage of the league becoming pass friendly. I'm sure defensive corr. can figure out ways to adjust. Just ask the Packers' coaches. The offense has slowed down due to coaches figuring out ways to stop it.

This begs the question, since it is becoming an offensive sport. Does the value of defensive players increase or decrease in the draft and/or free agency?

BigBanger 10-22-2012 01:15 AM

It was nice to watch the Bills and Titans today. That was a fun game to watch. But when the Bills and Titans games look that every week... then it becomes arbitrary. It's just bad football.

People talk about 10 years ago... it was less than that. It was about 6 years ago when RBs and defenses still had their place in the NFL.

In 2006 LT set the record for most rushing TDs in a season with 28. And he led the NFL in rushing with 1,800 yards. Larry Johnson had a great season in Kansas City with 1,700+ rush yards and 17 TDs. Frank Gore and Tiki Barber both went well over 1,600 yards rushing. Steven Jackson and Willie Parker had 1,500 rushing yard seasons with 13 TDs.

10 defenses allowed 301 YPG or fewer. This season? That number is down to 6. And there is still a lot of football left. The 10th ranked defense this year allows 324 YPG.

The worst scoring defense in 2006 (49ers) gave up 25.8 PPG. TEN TEAMS this year give up more points per game than that. 10. And the 11th worst defense (Browns) this year give up 25.7 PPG. The 12th worst scoring defense is the New York Giants, who are supposedly a good defense by today's standards.


11 defenses in 2006 gave up less than 20 PPG. Another 6 defenses gave up less than 21 PPG.

This year... 9 defenses are giving up less than 20 PPG. Only 2 more teams are giving up less than 21 PPG.

That's a big deference.


I hate bad QB play just as much as I hate bad defense.

Forenci 10-22-2012 01:47 AM

Lets be honest though. Are we not the first to complain, yell and scream when we see pass interference committed against our team - especially if it impacts a scoring play? I don't hear many of us saying "they should just let it go" when the penalty hurts our team.

Personally, I love seeing a great defensive team over a great offensive team any day of the week. But hey, I won't lie, when I see PI committed against my team or the other team commits it against my team I am always screaming for them to call it.

Mufasa 10-22-2012 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci (Post 3159551)
Lets be honest though. Are we not the first to complain, yell and scream when we see pass interference committed against our team - especially if it impacts a scoring play? I don't hear many of us saying "they should just let it go" when the penalty hurts our team.

Because that's how the rules are written and how it's being called now. If the rule said otherwise people wouldn't complain.

If a false start isn't called people get mad too. But if the rules said that the player was allowed to reset people wouldn't be upset when a player jumps and a false start isn't called.

If you're calling it for all the other teams, you better call it the same way for mine.

Ness 10-22-2012 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci (Post 3159551)
Lets be honest though. Are we not the first to complain, yell and scream when we see pass interference committed against our team - especially if it impacts a scoring play? I don't hear many of us saying "they should just let it go" when the penalty hurts our team.

Personally, I love seeing a great defensive team over a great offensive team any day of the week. But hey, I won't lie, when I see PI committed against my team or the other team commits it against my team I am always screaming for them to call it.

True, but that is because we know of the rules that are in place. I think at least at a subconscious level. We as fans are so used to knowing how much leverage receiver should be getting on a play per play basis. I was watching the 49ers/Seahawks game for a second time, and I was surprised that the officials gave the corners for the Seahawks so much leeway in terms of being physical. At least by today's standards. Watching them though did make me wish we could go back to at least maybe even ten years ago, which was certainly before the post 2003 crackdown that resulted from the Patriots/Colts game in the playoffs after Polian complained.

Ness 10-22-2012 03:00 AM

Also, I wonder if the NFL will exist beyond 100 years. Especially with how more PC our society has become within the last 40 or so years. Not that I will be around to see it, but I truly am curious.

Polamalu_is_God 10-22-2012 03:01 AM

It's because these old retired players are suing the league for injuries they sustained during their careers. Blame the players like Brian Westbrook, not Goodell and the league. They're just trying to cover their asses.

y.f.s. 10-22-2012 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci (Post 3159551)
Lets be honest though. Are we not the first to complain, yell and scream when we see pass interference committed against our team - especially if it impacts a scoring play? I don't hear many of us saying "they should just let it go" when the penalty hurts our team.

Personally, I love seeing a great defensive team over a great offensive team any day of the week. But hey, I won't lie, when I see PI committed against my team or the other team commits it against my team I am always screaming for them to call it.

Pass Interference is one thing, but Illegal Contact gotta go and take "defenseless receiver" out with it.

Ness 10-22-2012 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polamalu_is_God (Post 3159597)
It's because these old retired players are suing the league for injuries they sustained during their careers. Blame the players like Brian Westbrook, not Goodell and the league. They're just trying to cover their asses.

You really believe the NFL bears no responsibility with former players and the cases they've made against the league? I'm sure there are some broke players out there that might be trying to get some cash on the side back, but I'd be hard pressed to believe that the NFL is completely clean when it comes to the past and making sure that the best interest came to making sure the well-being for individuals is at the top of the priority list for not just the next Sunday where they can earn more dough for the league, but after they've retired.

Forenci 10-22-2012 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y.f.s. (Post 3159599)
Pass Interference is one thing, but Illegal Contact gotta go and take "defenseless receiver" out with it.

Very true. Defenseless receiver is a good rule in practice, but the definition of what is or isn't defenseless is too broad. That's the probably with most of these rules. They're far too open to interpretation and opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness (Post 3159594)
True, but that is because we know of the rules that are in place. I think at least at a subconscious level. We as fans are so used to knowing how much leverage receiver should be getting on a play per play basis. I was watching the 49ers/Seahawks game for a second time, and I was surprised that the officials gave the corners for the Seahawks so much leeway in terms of being physical. At least by today's standards. Watching them though did make me wish we could go back to at least maybe even ten years ago, which was certainly before the post 2003 crackdown that resulted from the Patriots/Colts game in the playoffs after Polian complained.

That's possible, but lets not forget the popularity and coverage of the NFL has grown exponentially since the early days where defense was able to get away with more. Now every case of bad interference and illegal contact, etc. is being talked about and broken down locally, as well as nationally.

This is a common theme in not only football, but society in general. Are we degrading and becoming a stupider society, or is stupidity just easier to publicize now that everyone has a voice through the use of social media?

I personally tend to side with the former. I feel we're no dumber than we were 30 years ago. I believe the same applies to the NFL.

Now, granted, the rules are different today, but I think because of bad penalties making head lines and refs constantly being under scrutiny by the public spotlight more so today that it likely results in more calls than normal.

Vikes99ej 10-22-2012 03:52 AM

Lawyers ruin everything.

Polamalu_is_God 10-22-2012 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness (Post 3159616)
You really believe the NFL bears no responsibility with former players and the cases they've made against the league? I'm sure there are some broke players out there that might be trying to get some cash on the side back, but I'd be hard pressed to believe that the NFL is completely clean when it comes to the past and making sure that the best interest came to making sure the well-being for individuals is at the top of the priority list for not just the next Sunday where they can earn more dough for the league, but after they've retired.

They knew the risk involved when they signed up. Far as being broke, thats their fault for blowing all that cash. Now they're ruined it for the new schoolers.

Ness 10-22-2012 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polamalu_is_God (Post 3159626)
They knew the risk involved when they signed up. Far as being broke, thats their fault for blowing all that cash. Now they're ruined it for the new schoolers.

It's easy to take that perspective when you've never played. It's not just about complaining of the injuries sustained, but a lot of these cases are complaints stemming from receiving incorrect medical advice from practitioners during the time they were in the NFL. As an NFL player you assume you're being given a truthful evaluation from medical professionals regardless of the risks. A lot of these case I've heard are disputing that.

Forenci 10-22-2012 04:15 AM

Hah. So if they "knew" the risks going in that means that the NFL should not be held at least partially accountable? A big logical fallacy. Just because you MAY (or in this case, may not) know the risks to something doesn't mean the NFL can't be held accountable. It is only recently the NFL has acknowledged and stepped up their efforts to treat concussions.

Ness 10-22-2012 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci (Post 3159618)
That's possible, but lets not forget the popularity and coverage of the NFL has grown exponentially since the early days where defense was able to get away with more. Now every case of bad interference and illegal contact, etc. is being talked about and broken down locally, as well as nationally.

This is a common theme in not only football, but society in general. Are we degrading and becoming a stupider society, or is stupidity just easier to publicize now that everyone has a voice through the use of social media?

I personally tend to side with the former. I feel we're no dumber than we were 30 years ago. I believe the same applies to the NFL.

Now, granted, the rules are different today, but I think because of bad penalties making head lines and refs constantly being under scrutiny by the public spotlight more so today that it likely results in more calls than normal.

Think about if the NFL decided to go back to where it was in let's say, 2000. Would people really throw their hands up in the air at the leverage the defenses have recovered from ten years ago? I feel if the crackdown on defensive backs had never happened, that we'd not only be where we are today with NFL revenues skyrocketing, but we'd have a better product than something that is leaning more and more towards Arena football with the constant high scoring affairs. Soon, I'd like to think that it's going to reach a tipping point at and it will get old. At the same time it is a business and the NFL now garners more towards the "casual" fan than the football purist. The person worried about their fantasy football team or the person that can't be entertained by a defensive struggle for me than a quarter. We're in the microwave era as someone once told me several years ago and we want an exciting product that's fast and doesn't require too much of an attention span. Form without substance.

Special note: Stupider isn't a word. Just be careful of that.

Ness 10-22-2012 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci (Post 3159629)
Hah. So if they "knew" the risks going in that means that the NFL should not be held at least partially accountable? A big logical fallacy. Just because you MAY (or in this case, may not) know the risks to something doesn't mean the NFL can't be held accountable. It is only recently the NFL has acknowledged and stepped up their efforts to treat concussions.

Right. I think the NFL has a moral obligation as just people to look out for individual's long-term safety within this sport the best they can, especially when their valuable committees and making them money.

Forenci 10-22-2012 04:33 AM

Agreed. They're clearly concerned about player safety so they should be doing whatever possible to protect players. It's a violent game, but don't pretend like just because you (you being the NFL in this case) you didn't ignore it in the past.

BigBanger 10-22-2012 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci (Post 3159639)
Agreed. They're clearly concerned about player safety so they should be doing whatever possible to protect players. It's a violent game, but don't pretend like just because you (you being the NFL in this case) you didn't ignore it in the past.

They are not clearly concerned about player safety. They are attempting to send a message that they are concerned with player safety. Do you think it's a coincidence that, all of a sudden, you're seeing these "heads up" commercials with little kids "learning" how to play "safe"? This is the whole point of public relations for when they do get sued.

If the NFL was concerned about player safety they wouldn't even entertain the idea of playing 18 regular season games. NFL teams don't even get through the first 4 weeks with a roster that isn't plagued with injuries at numerous positions.

It comes down to money. The NFL has glamorized the hard hitting violence of the sport. They've made money off those hits. Once former players threw it in their face (like Mark Schlereth on national TV), they tried to clean up those kind of videos of players getting knocked the **** out. Now they make money by penalizing those same hits that they used to sell on video.

The NFL is a business. Their #1 concern is producing the best product they can. Their #2 concern is making the most money off the best product they can display. As of late... they've started skimming from concern #1 to appease concern #2.

It is also quite obvious that they have rules in place that protect certain players. QBs and WRs are protected more so than LBs or DL. If a defense was doing what the New England Patriots offense is doing (Patriots averaging almost 80 plays a game), the League would look into doing whatever they could to prevent that defense from dominating. They look at the Patriots and think this is the way the NFL should run. Having a defense set records for most three-and-outs... something needs to be done.

BeerBaron 10-22-2012 08:26 AM

Here are two immediate changes I would make to try to fix things, given that the NFL will never fully repeal these two:

1.) Make illegal contact go into effect after 7 yards instead of 5, and remove the god damn automatic first down from it. Make it more like an offsides.

2.) Remove the defenseless receiver rule unless the guy is hit in the head by the defensive player's head. Under absolutely no circumstance should a clean hit be a penalty because the receiver is "defenseless." That receiver just shouldn't go into that position if he isn't going to be able to "defend" himself.

And a third one just for fun:

3.) If a receiver motions for a flag, HE gets the flag called on him for unsportsmanlike conduct. Years of seeing the Colts receivers in the early-mid 2000s absolutely soured me on this. It really seemed as if the ball was incomplete for any reason, the nearest Colt to it was motioning for a flag. **** that. Just go **** yourself receiver. Little ******* midgets ruining the game because you can't get separation against against physical corners.

descendency 10-22-2012 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y.f.s. (Post 3159599)
Pass Interference is one thing, but Illegal Contact gotta go and take "defenseless receiver" out with it.

The 5 yard contact rule needs to go for sure, but the NFL needs to find some happy medium between destroying defense and creating a safe environment.

Just start ejecting players for leading with their head and spearing. That would end it all and allow defenses to return.

P-L 10-22-2012 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness (Post 3159616)
You really believe the NFL bears no responsibility with former players and the cases they've made against the league? I'm sure there are some broke players out there that might be trying to get some cash on the side back, but I'd be hard pressed to believe that the NFL is completely clean when it comes to the past and making sure that the best interest came to making sure the well-being for individuals is at the top of the priority list for not just the next Sunday where they can earn more dough for the league, but after they've retired.

I haven't done enough research about the case to know who is right and who is wrong, but I am sick of the hypocrisy. First we have players and fans ripping the league's the new rules and safety measures, saying that the players know what they're getting into and understand the risks. In the next breath we're supporting the former players who are claiming that they didn't know what they were getting into and were mislead about the risks of playing the game. It can't be both ways


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