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-   -   Just How Bad Is This QB Class? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54592)

onejayhawk 11-20-2012 09:40 AM

Just How Bad Is This QB Class?
 
Barkley strikes me as Leinart II, without even that much arm. But no one really stepped into the gap. Counting the likely underclassmen, how many top 20 worthy pick are there?

J

vidae 11-20-2012 09:57 AM

It isn't as bad as most people are making it out to be. There is no Luck or RG3 type prospect, but someone will separate themselves from the pack before too long.

Remember, it's only November. There will be a viable #1 overall QB in this class like almost every other, whether it be Tyler Wilson or Mike Glennon (ugh) or someone else.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH 11-20-2012 12:51 PM

Mike Glennon is awful. I don't understand how he's being hyped up as a potential #1 overall. He can't read coverages, makes some terrible decisions, has terrible pocket presence, and accuracy is average. The only thing he really has going for him is a solid arm, but you don't draft a QB #1 overall just because he has a good arm (I'm looking at you JaMarcus).

gpngc 11-20-2012 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae (Post 3187498)
It isn't as bad as most people are making it out to be. There is no Luck or RG3 type prospect, but someone will separate themselves from the pack before too long.

Remember, it's only November. There will be a viable #1 overall QB in this class like almost every other, whether it be Tyler Wilson or Mike Glennon (ugh) or someone else.

That's the problem right there.

The time to separate yourself and show your worth as a top draft pick is during actual games.

Someone's stock will probably be inflated due to supply/demand and teams needing future QBs, but make no mistake this QB class is very weak.

brat316 11-20-2012 01:14 PM

A junior QB or 2 will declare and take advantage of this....say someone from UGA?

y.f.s. 11-20-2012 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae (Post 3187498)
It isn't as bad as most people are making it out to be.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I've got Wilson, Smith, and Dysert a clear tier above everybody else, and I think those are the three "franchise QBs" in this class.

Everyone's rankings are gonna be all over the place.

Babylon 11-20-2012 01:32 PM

There's good depth and just by the odds you'd have to figure one or two will turn out to be good NFL QBs but upfront i think it lacks quality. As of now i'd probably rank them.

Wilson
Barkley
Smith
Glennon

villagewarrior 11-20-2012 02:01 PM

Just because someone is at the top of their class doesn't make him a franchise player.

y.f.s. 11-20-2012 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by villagewarrior (Post 3187684)
Just because someone is at the top of their class doesn't make him a franchise player.

I get what you're saying (value in a vacuum vs value in a given draft class), but I'd consider those three to be franchise type QB prospects in just about any class.

descendency 11-20-2012 02:32 PM

The best way to determine the strength of the class is to compare to previous classes. (the following comes from every class since 2002, a decade ago)

#1 Picks:
David Carr (2002)
Carson Palmer (2003)
Eli Manning (2004)
Alex Smith (2005)
[Mario Williams]
JaMarcus Russell (2007)
[Jake Long]
Matthew Stafford (2009)
Sam Bradford (2010)
Cam Newton (2011)
Andrew Luck (2012)

[Added in to emphasize how often a QB has gone #1 overall since 2002]

#2 Picks:
Robert Griffin (2012)

#3 Picks:
Joey Harrington (2002)
Vince Young (2006)
Matt Ryan (2008)

#4 Picks:
Phillip Rivers (2004)

#5 Picks:
Mark Sanchez (2009)

6-10:
Byron Leftwich (2003, #7)
Jake Locker (2011, #8)
Ryan Tannehill (2012, #8)
Matt Leinart (2008, #10)
Blaine Gabbert (2011, #10)

Tell me where you could put QBs from this class (as prospects) on this list that they won't stick out as reaches compared to previous classes?

Obviously, there are some top 10 QBs in this class, because if Leinart, Gabbert, Sanchez, and Harrington could go top 10 - then so can Barkley and Smith.

But who wouldn't be the worst (as a prospect) #1 pick in the last 10 (technically 11) years?

onejayhawk 11-20-2012 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon (Post 3187664)
There's good depth and just by the odds you'd have to figure one or two will turn out to be good NFL QBs but upfront i think it lacks quality. As of now i'd probably rank them.

Wilson
Barkley
Smith
Glennon

Any list that has Barkley #2 is weak, almost by definition. I grant that some under classmen can change the look, but I have to wonder if Barkley would have gone in the first round last year.

J

vidae 11-20-2012 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onejayhawk (Post 3187712)
Any list that has Barkley #2 is weak, almost by definition. I grant that some under classmen can change the look, but I have to wonder if Barkley would have gone in the first round last year.

J

Barkley would have gone in the first last year, absolutely. I don't have to wonder about it at all. His stock has been hurt by going back for his senior year.

Cigaro 11-20-2012 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae (Post 3187498)
It isn't as bad as most people are making it out to be. There is no Luck or RG3 type prospect, but someone will separate themselves from the pack before too long.

Remember, it's only November. There will be a viable #1 overall QB in this class like almost every other, whether it be Tyler Wilson or Mike Glennon (ugh) or someone else.

Someone separating themselves from the pack doesn't make a class any better, as being the shiniest turd is relatively meaningless.

Overall, I don't think its a horrible crop of quarterbacks at all. Barkley, Smith, Wilson, hey maybe even Glennon all have positive attributes that indicate they could be good to great NFL quarterbacks. But they also all have a fair bit of negatives. I don't doubt at all some of the quarterbacks would go high, but in a list of overall prospect rankings, none of these guys would be at the top for me, which I think this is the same general sentiment that everyone has. There are decent quarterback prospects, but that's it.

Cigaro 11-20-2012 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhaarat316 (Post 3187646)
A junior QB or 2 will declare and take advantage of this....say someone from UGA?

Aaron Murray definitely isn't a premier quarterback prospect. Fringe first rounder. Lacks size and hasn't progressed at the rate everyone thought he would judging by his freshman year.

y.f.s. 11-20-2012 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhaarat316 (Post 3187646)
A junior QB or 2 will declare and take advantage of this....say someone from UGA?

More like someone from San Jose State.


SickwithIt1010 11-20-2012 04:04 PM

Murray being hinted at as a guy who could jump to the number 1 pick is comical.

georgiafan 11-20-2012 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhaarat316 (Post 3187646)
A junior QB or 2 will declare and take advantage of this....say someone from UGA?

Murray shouldnt even consider the NFL until he plays good agianst a team with a pulse on defense. He will get his chance to prove that one agianst with a national title spot on the line vs bama. Murray should be taken in the first round he is more like a 3rd round type QB

Iamcanadian 11-20-2012 05:30 PM

Yeah, every year the haters come out and throw dirt at the current crop, even last year, plenty of posters took their shots at Luck and RG111, a minimum of 3 QB's will get drafted in round 1 with Geo Smith assured of going top 5, Barkley, top 10 and Glennon 1st round. Will any of them be stars, that will be decided in the pros, not by anybody commenting in here.
Pro scouts will say this is an average class at worst with a lot of upside depending on who declares.

Saints-Tigers 11-20-2012 05:37 PM

And every year we get guys coming on here to tell us that we hate every QB class, and that Mark Sanchez and Blaine Gabbert and Brandon Weeden etc are awesome prospects and we're just being negative.

Really, every year the QB prospects aren't elite prospects, great QB prospects are rare, stop trying to act like we're just ******** on them for no reason.

How many of the QBs that the majority was negative about are actually really really good QBs?

y.f.s. 11-20-2012 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers (Post 3187835)
And every year we get guys coming on here to tell us that we hate every QB class, and that Mark Sanchez and Blaine Gabbert and Brandon Weeden etc are awesome prospects and we're just being negative.

Really, every year the QB prospects aren't elite prospects, great QB prospects are rare, stop trying to act like we're just ******** on them for no reason.

How many of the QBs that the majority was negative about are actually really really good QBs?

The problem is that on this forum, guys are either future Hall of Famers or the next Ryan Leaf. There is no middle ground, ever.

Take Matt Stafford. Either you thought he was a ******* God-Tier QB prospect or he was erratic, overrated, inaccurate, QB with nothing but a strong arm. The truth was somewhere in the middle. He's been both of those guys in the NFL.

Iamcanadian 11-20-2012 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers (Post 3187835)
And every year we get guys coming on here to tell us that we hate every QB class, and that Mark Sanchez and Blaine Gabbert and Brandon Weeden etc are awesome prospects and we're just being negative.

Really, every year the QB prospects aren't elite prospects, great QB prospects are rare, stop trying to act like we're just ******** on them for no reason.

How many of the QBs that the majority was negative about are actually really really good QBs?

I don't think I've ever seen a QB who wasn't jumped all over prior to the draft, not one, so I guess you could say every QB in the NFL who is really, really good. Hating QB's prior to the draft seems to be the norm as far back as I can remember, even after a year or 2, many are still lambasted although people have short memories. Eli, Alex, etc. etc.

gpngc 11-20-2012 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y.f.s. (Post 3187786)
More like someone from San Jose State.


Very, very impressive. And in his first game of the year against a good D...

Does he have a big-time arm?

y.f.s. 11-20-2012 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian (Post 3187846)
I don't think I've ever seen a QB who wasn't jumped all over prior to the draft, not one, so I guess you could say every QB in the NFL who is really, really good. Hating QB's prior to the draft seems to be the norm as far back as I can remember, even after a year or 2, many are still lambasted although people have short memories. Eli, Alex, etc. etc.

And Mark Sanchez amirite?

Really though, you're as bad as the people who hate every QB prospect, but for the opposite reasons. Nobody can take your opinion as objective, because I don't think you've ever seen a projected 1st round QB you didn't fall in love with.

SolidGold 11-20-2012 06:24 PM

That Fales kid from SJSU has a really nice arm and quick release - impressive footage

keylime_5 11-20-2012 06:27 PM

seems like a real crapshoot this year - much like in 2005 with Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell, Charlie Frye, and Andrew Walter - except those guys all had great senior/junior years. Barkley, Smith, Wilson, Glennon, etc. are all disappointing this year compared to expectations. Not what I want in a QB my team drafts with a high pick.


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