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-   -   Johnthan Banks is Overrated (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54792)

Don Vito 12-05-2012 09:38 AM

Johnthan Banks is Overrated
 
Let me just get this out of the way, I am not saying this because I am an Ole Miss fan.

He has some talent I am not disputing that, but he really did not have a good year. People give Amerson a lot of **** for getting abused against Tennessee and not having a great campaign, but Banks has had a less than stellar season and is still getting consistently mocked as a top 20 pick. State had a good defense this year and he was definitely the biggest name on the team, but people still were throwing his way. If you watch the second half of the season or pretty much any of State's SEC games, Banks was getting beat quite a bit.

Banks made a name for himself as a freshman when he had two pick sixes against Florida. He had a nice sophmore year and put up some impressive numbers as last season, much like Amerson. Not only did he not live up to the considerable hype surrounding him this year, but he got beat pretty badly towards the end of the year.

I don't see a lot of talk about Banks, I just see everyone throwing him in there as a high pick. Put up some numbers and has some height/athleticism, but he is not as physical as some people make him out to be and I don't think he is going to be as succesful a cover corner as people are making him out to be. Donte Moncrief is our clearcut best player on offense so they put Banks on him this year, and they ended up having to take him off because he was getting beaten so badly. If you go back and watch some of the tape on Banks, especially this year when he was designated the top guy on the offense, he did not come through as his projected draft stock would indicated.

Matthew Jones 12-05-2012 09:47 AM

I think what's appealing about Banks is his height, arm length, fluidity in his backpedal and changing directions, and his closing speed. He looks significantly smoother and more refined in coverage than Amerson, who projects as strictly a zone cornerback or free safety. Banks has some impressive ball skills and they use him as a blitzer at times, which is interesting. He actually reminds me of Ras-I Dowling to some extent, although being able to stay healthy for all four seasons will probably boost him into the top twenty or so picks. I still have some concerns about his ability to stay healthy at the pro level because of how thin his frame is; do you project durability based on previous durability, playing style, build...? We've seen Dowling battle injuries, and Dre Kirkpatrick got hurt before the season as well.

Don Vito 12-05-2012 09:57 AM

Durability isn't really the concern, he just is not nearly as physical as guys like Kirkpatrick or Dowling were coming out. He has length, is smooth, long arms, and a lot of the traits you look for in a #1 corner. He will make some plays, but he looks lost when the ball is in the air a lot. When the ball is in his hands, yes he will make plays. He gets pushed around a bit at the college level so I don't expect that to suddenly improve in the NFL. He gets beat on jump balls and that should not happen to him, I understand that it "happens to the best of 'em" but that should be his bread and butter with his skillset.

You can't teach his combo of size and fluidity, the arm length is certainly appealing as well, but in my opinion Banks is very overrated. He is a playmaker with the ball in his hands but is not the cover corner or physical player some people make him out to be.

y.f.s. 12-05-2012 11:15 AM

He's been compared often to the Cromarties...big, long, rangy athlete with ball skills who lacks lateral agility. Good CB for defending vertical stems, but you can pick on him if you make him change directions and cut horizontally.

Don Vito 12-05-2012 11:33 AM

I don't see him as a first round pick personally, both Cromartie's had their flaws coming out as well but they at least had the flashy 40 times to turn people's heads. I don't think Banks is going to run a sub 4.4 like those guys. Not saying the 40 time makes the player, but you know that the Cromarties were both labeled as freak length/speed guys and they proved it before their drafts. Don't see that happening with Banks.

Malaka 12-05-2012 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Vito (Post 3201787)
I don't see him as a first round pick personally, both Cromartie's had their flaws coming out as well but they at least had the flashy 40 times to turn people's heads. I don't think Banks is going to run a sub 4.4 like those guys. Not saying the 40 time makes the player, but you know that the Cromarties were both labeled as freak length/speed guys and they proved it before their drafts. Don't see that happening with Banks.

Antonio Chromartie ran a 4.47, DRC ran a 4.29...

A-Cromartie is much better than DRC. So yeah you're right 40 times don't make the player. But I can buy a Jonathan Banks and Cro comparison.

P-L 12-05-2012 12:12 PM

Antonio Cromartie ran a 4.38 at his Pro Day, just 8 months after having surgery to repair a torn ACL.

Brown Leader 12-05-2012 12:17 PM

Agree on the DRC comparison though he's slower and agree that he's overrated. I see him as a early 3rd rounder.

duesouth 12-06-2012 04:30 AM

Well, I don't think there are any Claiborne/Jenkins level talents this year, so to an extent he's been pushed up mock drafts because of need in a pass happy league.

He's long, but he's not big - very, very thin in the lower body particularly. He's not physical as a tackler - saw him go for a strip on a kick return in one game, missed the tackle and it became a TD - 2 missed tackles against Tennessee and again against Arkansas. I'm not sure I'd want him as my last line of defense as a FS...

Looks very comfortable in man coverage though - doesn't open his hips too early and doesn't get stressed when the cushion is closed quickly. Can flip his hips very nicely - generally stays with double moves. At times plays Cover-3 - so he's side-on and will bite on the double move more. Looks like he'll suit a team that uses off man coverage principally.

40 time is more important at CB than most positions, so of course stock will ultimately depend on that time - but for now I have him late first round.

bucfan12 12-06-2012 08:41 AM

Banks plays a lot similar to Aquib Talib. Tall lengthy player who doesn't give much jam at the LOS. Gambles a bit too much Nd will get beat often. Gives a soft cushion and somewhat inconsistent tackler. I rarely see him get physical with opposing Wrs.

Don Vito 12-06-2012 09:57 AM

I think you are pretty spot on with that comparison personally.

Iamcanadian 12-06-2012 11:15 AM

Banks has top 20 talent but he isn't on every team's board at that level. His lack of elite speed makes him attractive to Cover 2/zone teams but not to man to man teams.

Borat 12-06-2012 11:41 AM

I completely agree with DV. I recently reviewed 3 of his games. I kept asking myself "what is all the hype about?" I saw each QB targeting him and completing passes with ease. I saw nothing that stood out about his game. I actually got bored watching him. And his reluctance to get involved in making tackles/asst. tackles was pissing me off.

He's got first-round measurables, but his play is mid-round quality.

y.f.s. 12-06-2012 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucfan12 (Post 3202798)
Banks plays a lot similar to Aquib Talib. Tall lengthy player who doesn't give much jam at the LOS. Gambles a bit too much Nd will get beat often. Gives a soft cushion and somewhat inconsistent tackler. I rarely see him get physical with opposing Wrs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Vito (Post 3202843)
I think you are pretty spot on with that comparison personally.

Yes, Talib fits very well...much better than the Cromarties, since he's really not that type of elite caliber athlete.

Leon Sandcastle 12-06-2012 12:07 PM

I rate Milliner higher.

mpt117 12-06-2012 12:48 PM

i like banks, but i admit that his stock has slipped a little bit. he played well last year and started off this year playing well, too. but he hasnt had a good second half of the year. he had some pretty bad games against alabama, ole miss, lsu and texas a&m to name a few. the poor second half performances may be due to him playing through a nagging knee/leg injury which he picked up in the either the tennessee or middle tennessee state game. but he offers intriguing size and ball skills. ( 4 interceptions this year, 16 total for his college career)

descendency 12-06-2012 03:14 PM

Amerson's problem isn't physical. It's mental. He has admitted he wasn't studying the game like he should have. I get the feeling he's regressed in his game preparations as well because he's all the time looking to blame a safety for getting beat.

Maybe safety play was at fault and it's the other guy's fault - but I doubt it.

VeraKeisey 12-07-2012 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y.f.s. (Post 3201777)
He's been compared often to the Cromarties...big, long, rangy athlete with ball skills who lacks lateral agility. Good CB for defending vertical stems, but you can pick on him if you make him change directions and cut horizontally.

Are you serious?

y.f.s. 12-07-2012 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeraKeisey (Post 3203643)
Are you serious?

About what part? Comparing him to Cromarties or how you attack the Cromarties?

As far as the comparison, I remembered who originally gave it - Giants GM Jerry Reese.

Don Vito 01-21-2013 04:58 PM

Just a little food for thought. Here is how Banks fared in MSU's 9 games against FBS teams this season:
-12 completions on the 20 times he was targeted against
-Led to 229 yards (11.5 YPA) and 3 touchdowns
-No interceptions generated on these attempts testing Banks

By contrast, the other MSU corner Darius Slay (who I am a fan of), in those same games had:
-8 completions against on 26 targets for 2 TD's and 143 yards
-5.5 YPA
-2 interceptions on those attempts

Now I know stats aren't the end all be all, but I saw these numbers today and thought I would share. Banks makes some big plays when he gets the ball in his hands, but I just don't see the hype with him as a potential lockdown corner. He would be better suited as a FS, but he is not a physical player.

brat316 01-21-2013 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y.f.s. (Post 3201777)
He's been compared often to the Cromarties...big, long, rangy athlete with ball skills who lacks lateral agility. Good CB for defending vertical stems, but you can pick on him if you make him change directions and cut horizontally.

sounds more like sean smith when he came out.

Iamcanadian 01-22-2013 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Vito (Post 3201787)
I don't see him as a first round pick personally, both Cromartie's had their flaws coming out as well but they at least had the flashy 40 times to turn people's heads. I don't think Banks is going to run a sub 4.4 like those guys. Not saying the 40 time makes the player, but you know that the Cromarties were both labeled as freak length/speed guys and they proved it before their drafts. Don't see that happening with Banks.

I agree, I don't think he is anywhere near a sub 4.50, he may not even run a 4.50. Late 1st rounder, or a second rounder in my opinion. May suit zone teams only.

Big Bird 01-22-2013 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Vito (Post 3252890)
Just a little food for thought. Here is how Banks fared in MSU's 9 games against FBS teams this season:
-12 completions on the 20 times he was targeted against
-Led to 229 yards (11.5 YPA) and 3 touchdowns
-No interceptions generated on these attempts testing Banks

By contrast, the other MSU corner Darius Slay (who I am a fan of), in those same games had:
-8 completions against on 26 targets for 2 TD's and 143 yards
-5.5 YPA
-2 interceptions on those attempts

Now I know stats aren't the end all be all, but I saw these numbers today and thought I would share. Banks makes some big plays when he gets the ball in his hands, but I just don't see the hype with him as a potential lockdown corner. He would be better suited as a FS, but he is not a physical player.

So, you're going to tell me that just 46 passes were attempted against a team's base corners in 9 games when in those 9 games, they had 376 passes attempted against them? That's 330 passes not accounted for.

Where did you get these stats?

And another thing, Banks HAD all of his interceptions this year against FBS teams (Florida, Kentucky, Michigan).

Don Vito 01-22-2013 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Bird (Post 3253518)
So, you're going to tell me that just 46 passes were attempted against a team's base corners in 9 games when in those 9 games, they had 376 passes attempted against them? That's 330 passes not accounted for.

Where did you get these stats?

And another thing, Banks HAD all of his interceptions this year against FBS teams (Florida, Kentucky, Michigan).

http://insider.espn.go.com/college-f...llege-football

Stats are from ESPN Insider, I didn't want to paste what they put but the stats are what they showed in the article. If you have an Insider Account you can read the whole article, just scroll down to where they discuss MSU.

You say he had all his picks against FBS opponents this year. First off, the Bulldogs did not even play two of the teams you listed (Florida and Michigan) this year. So we will move on from that.

Also, those stats are from passes that Banks was targeted against. When his man was thrown at in those games, he did not record an interception. Take it for what it is, but that isn't what you expect from what people perceive as an elite senior playmaking shutdown CB prospect. Again, not the end all be all, but take it for what it is worth.

When he had that big game against Florida as a freshman he was playing free safety. I still think that is the position where he projects best, but he isn't physical and is a string bean. He is at is best when he is reading the QB's eyes and allowed to make plays on the ball. He is great when the ball is in his hands and has ball skills, but I don't think they are there when he is playing man. People think he is going to be a great man corner because they look at his length and some of the big plays he has made. Sorry I am not seeing it.

brat316 01-22-2013 01:17 PM

Well those stats would tell me, he isn't good at causing turnovers in man coverage, but can do it in a zone scheme.

He can tackle, so I wouldn't mind him on the Steelers.


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