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-   -   So do people still believe the Patriots skill players are good? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54934)

HypocrisyIsGreat 12-17-2012 05:28 PM

So do people still believe the Patriots skill players are good?
 
Pretty obvious they have a fast paced up tempo scheme and an all world QB who inflates these players stats.

Wes Welker kind of is a joke. Put him on a run first team like the 49ers and tell me how he'd fare. Deion Branch and Julian Edelman could do what he does.

Kaepernick only had 215 yards but on 25 attempts making that a YPA of 8.6. Brady had 440+ yards on 65 throws making that a YPA of 6.8.

So you get all these loser fans that go gaga over welker's "number of catches" even though half the time he's catching little underneath crap thanks to Brady having a lightning quick release.

To sum up, Patriots run a diferent type of offense than most teams which allows them to get several more offensive plays off than the other team due to the tempo. This inflates their skill player stats along with the all world QB play they have with Brady.

Put a Michael Crabtree on the Patriots and he'd destroy Welker's output.

Ness 12-17-2012 05:31 PM


descendency 12-17-2012 05:31 PM

I find it funny that you say Edelman or Branch could do it, because the games without Welker have been disastrous for NE (since 2007, when he was traded for).

For example, Welker was inactive (torn acl) during the Ravens playoff game in 2009. It was one of Brady's worst games ever.

Bengalsrz 12-17-2012 05:38 PM

I don't think its fair to question that some of the players Brady has been able to throw to over the years haven't been spectacular players (Gronk, Welker, Hernandez, Moss) but he does have an uncanny ability to make the offense work almost just as well with the next man up.

I do think Brady inflates the perceived talent level of the players around him, but a lot of them are still great players and this kind of thing happens with all elite quarterbacks.

Halsey 12-17-2012 05:39 PM

Did Wes Welker kick your dog?

PACKmanN 12-17-2012 05:56 PM

Thanks for telling us how good Brady is, but Rodgers is better

prock 12-17-2012 06:03 PM

Gronk and Hernandez are terrible, no idea why people think Brady has good weapons.

cmarq83 12-17-2012 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prock (Post 3215767)
Gronk and Hernandez are terrible, no idea why people think Brady has good weapons.




Thank god for the system inflating his numbers, or else this guy would be out flipping burgers :njx:

JordanTaber 12-17-2012 07:28 PM

Glad someone started a thread on this so I didn't have to.

Carlos Rogers shadowed Welker all game long and completely shut him out last night. Welker didn't beat him even once.

Rogers is a good corner...and that's what happens when a good corner covers a guy who is really a #3 caliber receiver. But Rogers couldn't cover Danny Amendola earlier this season...which is interesting.

Is Welker even as "good" as Amendola?

I think it's just silly that people still can't see what has been going on here. He plays for the same coach from when 8th round pick career #3 receiver Troy Brown caught 83 passes in 2000, 101 in 2001 and 97 in 2002. The same coach who put Brown and Julian Edelman at corner and got results. The same coach who lined Mike Vrabel up at tight end in goal line situations to go out and catch passes.

Belichick has an enormous ego, and he loves rubbing it in everyone else's face that he can win with anyone. He loves making stars out of journeymen caliber players like Danny Woodhead, Wes Welker, and Troy Brown. Other brilliant minds have tried this and wound up getting burned by their own egos - Mike Shanahan and Mike Martz are prime examples. As great as their schemes are/were, their offenses are still much better if they have actual talent to enhance the effect of what they do.

Belichick, on the other hand, has found the right balance for himself - he'll acquire a Randy Moss or a Brandon Lloyd to put it over the top when reality hits in the playoffs.

JordanTaber 12-17-2012 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency (Post 3215739)
I find it funny that you say Edelman or Branch could do it, because the games without Welker have been disastrous for NE (since 2007, when he was traded for).

For example, Welker was inactive (torn acl) during the Ravens playoff game in 2009. It was one of Brady's worst games ever.

And as we all know, Welker being gone is why they lost that Ravens game. The 6 catches for 44 yards and 2 TDs by Julian Edelman just weren't enough in that 33-14 blowout loss. Clearly, with Welker, they win that game easily. :njx:

First, Welker would've STUFFED Ray Rice. No 22-159-2 for him.

Then, he would've stopped Brady from throwing 3 interceptions, and kept those linebackers/scrub corners from shutting down Randy Moss. ...



Edelman also caught 8 passes for 98 years against the Jets in week 2 of the 2009 season with Welker out, and 10 passes for 103 yards against the Texans in the season finale after Welker left the game early with the torn ACL.

Yeah, he's just so hard to replace. Who else can catch screen passes and run behind a convoy of blockers for 7 yards? Who else can run drag routes and beat a linebacker and get 7-10 yards? Who else can get open off a pick play over the middle?

Just so rare to find guys who can do those things, maaaan.

Caulibflower 12-17-2012 07:39 PM

I think Bill Belechick just smiles a little to himself every time Welker makes the Pro Bowl.

Halsey 12-17-2012 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JordanTaber (Post 3215853)
Glad someone started a thread on this so I didn't have to.

Yes you did, you just created another account. You made a similar thread the other day, which got deleted for violating the rules. lol

FUNBUNCHER 12-17-2012 08:19 PM

Has Brady ever had even a mediocre WR corps, excluding TEs??

It's criminal IMO that Belichick has never surrounded Brady with dynamic, explosive talent at wideout for the majority of his career.

WCH 12-17-2012 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HypocrisyIsGreat (Post 3215731)
Put a Michael Crabtree on the Patriots and he'd destroy Welker's output.

Wait a minute...is this another one of those "49er Player A is better than Other Player B" threads?

Don Vito 12-17-2012 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCH (Post 3215924)
Wait a minute...is this another one of those "49er Player A is better than Other Player B" threads?


This might be trollception

G Mobile 12-17-2012 08:27 PM

Im
Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER (Post 3215917)
Has Brady ever had even a mediocre WR corps, excluding TEs??

It's criminal IMO that Belichick has never surrounded Brady with dynamic, explosive talent at wideout for the majority of his career.

I'm not sure if your serious. Brady had Moss, Welker & Stallworth and set QB records. Granted Brady had to deal with the Troy Browns and Caldwells for too long, but the offense didn't rely on passing like it does now.

FUNBUNCHER 12-17-2012 08:48 PM

Brady had all those guys together for a couple seasons??

I still would argue the weakest position group during the Brady era has been the WRs.

bigbuc 12-17-2012 09:23 PM

I hate this whole Brady doesn't have anyone good. I'm sure when he won the super bowls it was all him. And when he lost its because of the people around him.

Just on offense how is having the best TE and another top 5 TE and the best slot WR to ever play football.... No one? Please tell me

Caddy 12-17-2012 09:25 PM

Everyone realllllly hate the Pats.

P-L 12-17-2012 09:27 PM

Welker is not easily replaceable by guys like Branch and Edelman, but he's nowhere near the best slot receiver ever.

phlysac 12-17-2012 10:18 PM

Are people seriously arguing with Jordan?

SolidGold 12-17-2012 10:26 PM

you're a mook ---- rep to both your accounts

killxswitch 12-17-2012 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caddy (Post 3216024)
Everyone realllllly hate the Pats.

Mainly their dumbass fans.

JordanTaber 12-17-2012 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halsey (Post 3215888)
Yes you did, you just created another account. You made a similar thread the other day, which got deleted for violating the rules. lol

Yeah, that must be it...have the mods check the IP address if you're so convinced.

JordanTaber 12-17-2012 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac (Post 3216088)
Are people seriously arguing with Jordan?

Are you seriously going to come into every one of my threads and ask people if they're "seriously arguing with me?"

Knock it off. I could easily shred you in every thread on your hilarious Alex Smith/Kaepernick hypocrisy and how all the ridiculous defenses/praise for Smith have been officially exposed for the silliness they were, but I have barely said anything on the subject.

...
Now, back on topic - Danny Amendola has 57 catches in 9 games this year, and had 85 in 2010. What makes Welker any better than him? Remember, Welker only managed 67-687-1 when he was on the Dolphins in 2006. Like Welker in his Dolphins days, Amendola is on a lousy team...and, more importantly, a lousy team that isn't the New England Patriots.


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