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-   -   Dion Jordan - DE/OLB - Oregon (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55054)

Robcards 12-30-2012 06:04 PM

Dion Jordan - DE/OLB - Oregon
 
Went back 7 pages and didn't see a thread about him, my apologies if this is a duplicate. Just wondering why many consider him a 1st round pick. Is it just his size and speed? I watched some tape on him and he just disappears. His block shedding is nonexistent against a single blocker, his technique is horrific as he just tries to run around blockers, and he doesn't have any playmaking abilities (forcing turnovers, batted balls, etc). Really could use some convincing on this guy.

bigbuc 12-30-2012 06:57 PM

People like his Size/Speed. Better athlete than player IMO

jared3 12-30-2012 07:54 PM

Agree. Dion is a better athelete than a player. DE/LB Alex Okafor is the opposite. Better player on field than athlete.

If its me, I would take Okafor over Jordan.

Robcards 12-30-2012 08:09 PM

To see what tape I'm referencing its this 2012 game against USC:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdpzGUxkek4

bengalbuck 12-30-2012 08:46 PM

Production vs. measurables is always a tough determination. A guy like Aldon Smith only had 6 sacks his final year in college but has fantastic measurables and has been a stud in the pros. Some of the Alabama guys like Courtney Upshaw and others were great college players but didn't test well and haven't been great in the NFL.

The interesting DE test case for me this year will be John Simon. He was an absolute beast at OSU and has the best motor I've ever seen. But he has short arms and his frame won't allow him to put on more weight. Will he be swallowed up by NFL OTs or can he be a guy like Elvis Dumervil who is able to excel despite not having prototype physical traits?

Robcards 12-30-2012 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bengalbuck (Post 3227150)
Production vs. measurables is always a tough determination. A guy like Aldon Smith only had 6 sacks his final year in college but has fantastic measurables and has been a stud in the pros. Some of the Alabama guys like Courtney Upshaw and others were great college players but didn't test well and haven't been great in the NFL.

I don't like the Aldon Smith comparison because Aldon smith was a RS sophomore when he declared, so his techniques not being refined was excusable. Dion Jordan is a 5th year senior, he should have it together by now.

Duffman57 12-30-2012 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robcards (Post 3227162)
I don't like the Aldon Smith comparison because Aldon smith was a RS sophomore when he declared, so his techniques not being refined was excusable. Dion Jordan is a 5th year senior, he should have it together by now.

But he didn't play on Defense until after his RS Freshman year. He was a WR until then.

Its hard to tell how Dion is as a pass rusher, because he's almost never used as a pure pass rusher. He's moved around a LOT and is mostly their a guy to keep contain, is dropping from the Drop end spot, or covering the Slot or even outside receiver.

He's not as raw as people think. As a pass rusher he's rawer than most people think, but he's an awesome run defender and is plain and simple just relentless. He's got one of the best motors i've seen on a football field. He's got real heavy hands, and keeps leverage most plays despite being 6'6" or 6'7". But the best thing i've seen from him, is that he's the best backside run defender i've watched. He's consistently scraping down the line and making plays from backside persuit. I like him more than most.

Robcards 12-30-2012 09:21 PM

Pass rush >>> everything else really, especially to a team like the Jets that people have taking him 10th in mocks, we need the best pass rusher available, doesn't really matter how that player is against the run.

TACKLE 12-30-2012 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robcards (Post 3227047)
To see what tape I'm referencing its this 2012 game against USC:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdpzGUxkek4

Just to give you some context: he left the previous game with an injured shoulder coming into that SC game, it was very questionable whether he was going to play or not. He did play but was certainly limited by it and eventually had to come out. He had to miss the following game vs. Cal with the same shoulder injury.

If you want to see him in a more flattering light (in a game where he was actually healthy) to figure out why people like him so much, check out this game.


Duffman57 12-30-2012 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE (Post 3227263)
Just to give you some context: he left the previous game with an injured shoulder coming into that SC game, it was very questionable whether he was going to play or not. He did play but was certainly limited by it and eventually had to come out. He had to miss the following game vs. Cal with the same shoulder injury.

If you want to see him in a more flattering light (in a game where he was actually healthy) to figure out why people like him so much, check out this game.


Just another thing to add. Dion is known around Oregon as a complete standup guy, but also as a very intense leader of the D. I've consistently seen him to go into a group that looks down and get everyone pumped up. Not a guy that is going to be Vontaze on the field, but he's an emotional leader of a D, and his motor definitely brings something more to a defense.

One of my friends is a OLB coach for Oregon (the position that Dion plays), and he told me he's talked to some scouts that have a top 10 grade on him. Again, hearing this from my friend, but he's not one to BS people in any way, and is definitely in the know.

Robcards 12-30-2012 09:48 PM

That's certainly much better, but he still is mostly trying to run around the tackle. He's going to the senior bowl I assume? I'd like to see him beat a solid OT in pass rush, I'm assuming the ASU guy he beat off the edge isn't an nfl prospect.

TACKLE 12-30-2012 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duffman57 (Post 3227293)
Just another thing to add. Dion is known around Oregon as a complete standup guy, but also as a very intense leader of the D. I've consistently seen him to go into a group that looks down and get everyone pumped up. Not a guy that is going to be Vontaze on the field, but he's an emotional leader of a D, and his motor definitely brings something more to a defense.

One of my friends is a OLB coach for Oregon (the position that Dion plays), and he told me he's talked to some scouts that have a top 10 grade on him. Again, hearing this from my friend, but he's not one to BS people in any way, and is definitely in the know.

On a related note to the first thing you added...


DBNYDP 12-30-2012 10:01 PM

In general I feel betting against raw, super athletic, and high motor DEs isn't smart. I'm not too impressed with his tape but I think he'll be a much improved player 1 or 2 years into the league, that upside warrants first round consideration from me at least. Between him, Ziggy, and Hunt, the DE class is really going to be interesting.

Duffman57 12-30-2012 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBNYDP (Post 3227322)
In general I feel betting against raw, super athletic, and high motor DEs isn't smart. I'm not too impressed with his tape but I think he'll be a much improved player 1 or 2 years into the league, that upside warrants first round consideration from me at least. Between him, Ziggy, and Hunt, the DE class is really going to be interesting.

And thats not mentioning maybe even the most athletic of the class in Keke Mingo.

Rosebud 12-30-2012 10:38 PM

Yep, for pass rushers, tools and motor are infinitely more important than college production.

SuperPacker 12-30-2012 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robcards (Post 3227301)
That's certainly much better, but he still is mostly trying to run around the tackle. He's going to the senior bowl I assume? I'd like to see him beat a solid OT in pass rush, I'm assuming the ASU guy he beat off the edge isn't an nfl prospect.

You're an idiot. You start a thread asking why people rate him highly, get told several legit reasons and then disregard them. It's pretty obvious that whatever you see or hear isn't going to change your opinion (which was based on one game), so why even ask the question in the first place?

Robcards 12-30-2012 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperPacker (Post 3227392)
You're an idiot. You start a thread asking why people rate him highly, get told several legit reasons and then disregard them. It's pretty obvious that whatever you see or hear isn't going to change your opinion (which was based on one game), so why even ask the question in the first place?

So I can get told legit reasons why? How did I disregard them? I just stated my reservations based on the tape, and that I'd like to see him go against a solid LT and not just run around some scrub. How does that make me an idiot exactly?

Learn to read before you start calling people idiots, and try getting laid maybe you'll be a more pleasant person. Asshole.

TACKLE 12-30-2012 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperPacker (Post 3227392)
You're an idiot. You start a thread asking why people rate him highly, get told several legit reasons and then disregard them. It's pretty obvious that whatever you see or hear isn't going to change your opinion (which was based on one game), so why even ask the question in the first place?

It's called confirmation bias.

Robcards 12-30-2012 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE (Post 3227415)
It's called confirmation bias.

Not really, considering I didn't say anyone was wrong or disregard what anyone said. I simply stated what I saw in the tape and why I have reservations about the player, and why I'm not sold that he is a 1st round talent. At what point in this thread did I say 'you're wrong' or 'he isn't good' or 'he isn't going to be drafted that high' or anything even remotely concrete? I did not. I read other peoples thoughts and stated mine. And for that I am labeled an idiot and have a bias? Ok.

TACKLE 12-30-2012 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robcards (Post 3227426)
Not really, considering I didn't say anyone was wrong or disregard what anyone said. I simply stated what I saw in the tape and why I have reservations about the player, and why I'm not sold that he is a 1st round talent. At what point in this thread did I say 'you're wrong' or 'he isn't good' or 'he isn't going to be drafted that high' or anything even remotely concrete? I did not. I read other peoples thoughts and stated mine. And for that I am labeled an idiot and have a bias? Ok.

I was just telling him what the term was for that is called.

SuperPacker 12-30-2012 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robcards (Post 3227426)
Not really, considering I didn't say anyone was wrong or disregard what anyone said. I simply stated what I saw in the tape and why I have reservations about the player, and why I'm not sold that he is a 1st round talent. At what point in this thread did I say 'you're wrong' or 'he isn't good' or 'he isn't going to be drafted that high' or anything even remotely concrete? I did not. I read other peoples thoughts and stated mine. And for that I am labeled an idiot and have a bias? Ok.

You've been asking "what's so good about him?"/"I don't think he's that good." for a while now in the Mock Draft forum. You obviously based your opinion off that one game. You watch him play a better game and learn he was injured in the game you saw him play bad, but you're still trying to find excuses as to why he isn't as good as people say he is. If it was a player you had hyped up with the same tape, you'd be singing his praises. That's the point.

Robcards 12-30-2012 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperPacker (Post 3227450)
You've been asking "what's so good about him?"/"I don't think he's that good." for a while now in the Mock Draft forum. You obviously based your opinion off that one game. You watch him play a better game and learn he was injured in the game you saw him play bad, but you're still trying to find excuses as to why he isn't as good as people say he is. If it was a player you had hyped up with the same tape, you'd be singing his praises. That's the point.

I've been saying "I haven't seen any report saying he's a top 15 prospect" on the mock draft forum for a long time. I didn't know much about the guy and decided to look up some footage of him and didn't like what I saw. I understood that he has great size and speed, but that alone doesn't = top 10 pick, thus I made this thread. I got some good answers to my questions, but then you decided to call me an idiot for stating my reservations about the guy. Considering my team (the Jets) are one of the prime candidates to draft the guy if he is indeed a top 10 player, I'd like to know more about him and why he can or cannot succeed at the next level.

PS- Next time try not leading with "You're an idiot" it will make the rest of what you say carry more weight and make you seem like less of a buffoon.

SuperPacker 12-30-2012 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robcards (Post 3227461)
I've been saying "I haven't seen any report saying he's a top 15 prospect" on the mock draft forum for a long time. I didn't know much about the guy and decided to look up some footage of him and didn't like what I saw. I understood that he has great size and speed, but that alone doesn't = top 10 pick, thus I made this thread. I got some good answers to my questions, but then you decided to call me an idiot for stating my reservations about the guy. Considering my team (the Jets) are one of the prime candidates to draft the guy if he is indeed a top 10 player, I'd like to know more about him and why he can or cannot succeed at the next level.

PS- Next time try not leading with "You're an idiot" it will make the rest of what you say carry more weight and make you seem like less of a buffoon.

Okay dude.

nobodyinparticular 12-31-2012 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE (Post 3227263)
Just to give you some context: he left the previous game with an injured shoulder coming into that SC game, it was very questionable whether he was going to play or not. He did play but was certainly limited by it and eventually had to come out. He had to miss the following game vs. Cal with the same shoulder injury.

If you want to see him in a more flattering light (in a game where he was actually healthy) to figure out why people like him so much, check out this game.


Dion Jordan had a couple nagging injuries that he had to fight through all season long. It was a testament to his relentlessness that he even played through these injuries. He clearly wasn't 100%.

To the point that Jordan is more raw that you (Robcards) would like, keep in mind this guy was almost entirely an offensive player in high school and was a TE for the Ducks until finally transitioning to defense full time just a couple years ago. And while he's been on defense, he has been absolutely moved around the entire defense, doing a lot of covering slot receivers and TEs and then the next play he will slide down into a 3-point stance to rush the passer. He hasn't had a lot of repetition doing just one thing.

And yet he still has been a very effective part of the Oregon defense. When he gets into the NFL and gets some serious reps in a specific scheme, Jordan will likely take off.

brasho 01-02-2013 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jared3 (Post 3226990)
Agree. Dion is a better athelete than a player. DE/LB Alex Okafor is the opposite. Better player on field than athlete.

If its me, I would take Okafor over Jordan.

Okafor only knows pass rush. Either his recognition skiills are ZERO, or for some reason he is coached to go upfield on every play. Texas was horrible in stopping the run for many reasons I'm sure, but Okafor was a big one. I like his slipperyness, hate the fact that he is so one dimensional.


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