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-   -   Kenny Vaccaro in Top 5? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55406)

CrossOfDeath 01-26-2013 08:39 PM

Kenny Vaccaro in Top 5?
 
I have been extremely impressed with Kenny Vaccaro for the last 2 seasons. He is great in the box and playing center fielder. Can bring the lumber and good wrap up tackler as well. Plays well in man coverage and zone. I wish he had better ball skills but everything else is there. He has been my top ranked saftey all year and a Top 20 player. My question is how highly does everyone see him going because I just read about scouts raving over him and many projecting him as a Top 5-7 pick. As much as I have loved him I didn't see a Top 5 player. What do you think?

Babylon 01-26-2013 08:45 PM

I think it's probably good to cut back on the hootch at this point.

CrossOfDeath 01-26-2013 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon (Post 3257145)
I think it's probably good to cut back on the hootch at this point.

I didn't say he was a Top 5 pick. I said I read an artical that stats scouts all have him in there Top 10 and he could easily go Top 5.

He will be Top 20 for sure and that I stand by. If you think thats a drugged up prediction then I guess we'll have to see whos right in april.

Black Bolt 01-26-2013 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrossOfDeath (Post 3257140)
I have been extremely impressed with Kenny Vaccaro for the last 2 seasons. He is great in the box and playing center fielder. Can bring the lumber and good wrap up tackler as well. Plays well in man coverage and zone. I wish he had better ball skills but everything else is there. He has been my top ranked saftey all year and a Top 20 player. My question is how highly does everyone see him going because I just read about scouts raving over him and many projecting him as a Top 5-7 pick. As much as I have loved him I didn't see a Top 5 player. What do you think?

Boy, did this come out of left field!

BigBearFan 01-26-2013 11:09 PM

I'd say Top 10 - not too sold on Top 5

holt_bruce81 01-27-2013 01:58 AM

Top 5? **** that, I'm not even comfortable taking him in the first round.

HEISMANHERSCHEL 01-27-2013 02:03 AM

Top 5? No way. But he is a solid prospect in every way. But no way top 5

princefielder28 01-27-2013 09:58 AM

I don't see him as a Top 10 prospect, but it can't be ruled out that he may end up being one of the first ten selections come April. At this point in the process last year Mark Barron was mocked in a similar range to Vaccaro now, and given the overall lack of talent at the safety position in the NFL, his value may rise for certain teams.

This year's Harrison Smith, as the safety who goes from a mid rounder to a potential first round pick, may be Jonathan Cyprien. Cyprien's game is actually very similar to Smith's with the physicality he brings to the safety position and underrated ability to play the pass.

Robbieb7 01-27-2013 10:17 AM

Elam is better imo

Trogdor 01-27-2013 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princefielder28 (Post 3257365)
I don't see him as a Top 10 prospect, but it can't be ruled out that he may end up being one of the first ten selections come April. At this point in the process last year Mark Barron was mocked in a similar range to Vaccaro now, and given the overall lack of talent at the safety position in the NFL, his value may rise for certain teams.

This year's Harrison Smith, as the safety who goes from a mid rounder to a potential first round pick, may be Jonathan Cyprien. Cyprien's game is actually very similar to Smith's with the physicality he brings to the safety position and underrated ability to play the pass.

Agreed on both. I see Vaccaro as a top 20 talent that will go top 10 due to position and he is the cream of this crop. Cyprien has made a nice rise for himself but he without a doubt benefiting from a scarcity of talent at SS this season. I mean Elam, Lester, Shawn and Duke Williams is hardly an elite group of prospects. Elam would be well above him if he were 4 inches taller. When he measures 5'8" or 5'9" at the combine his stock is going to plummet.

The FS crop is hellishly deep though: Vaccaro, Reid, Thomas, Rambo, and Swearinger all could be elite within the right scheme and TJ McDonald has elite tools for someone to attempt to mold into a playmaker.

princefielder28 01-27-2013 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trogdor (Post 3257375)
Agreed on both. I see Vaccaro as a top 20 talent that will go top 10 due to position and he is the cream of this crop. Cyprien has made a nice rise for himself but he without a doubt benefiting from a scarcity of talent at SS this season. I mean Elam, Lester, Shawn and Duke Williams is hardly an elite group of prospects. Elam would be well above him if he were 4 inches taller. When he measures 5'8" or 5'9" at the combine his stock is going to plummet.

The FS crop is hellishly deep though: Vaccaro, Reid, Thomas, Rambo, and Swearinger all could be elite within the right scheme and TJ McDonald has elite tools for someone to attempt to mold into a playmaker.

Elam has the heart of a lion, but his size will undoubtedly create problems for him at the next level and his long term durability, with his style of play, may contribute to a short career.

Robert Lester might be a 5th round pick. Honestly I don't think the guy is a draftable prospect.

Shawn Williams has the presence of a quality strong safety, but too frequently he becomes soft when the time calls for him to be physical.

Duke Williams is a play maker and possesses a skill set comparable to Cyprien but there are some off the field issues that may push his stock down.

Eric Reid is more of a strong safety in my opinion and while he's a solid player I don't see much of a wow factor with him to take above the likes of Cyprien, Duke Williams or Phillip Thomas.

Phillip Thomas is the perfect center field type safety for the league nowadays. He's also more physical than some give him credit for.

Rambo might be the biggest play maker of the entire safety class. I fear he might be the greatest deterrent from making himself into a stud in the NFL.

Swearinger is another impressive safety, instant starter in the league.

TJ McDonald has all the tools but I don't feel he'll ever put his skills fully together.

rawdawg 01-27-2013 10:46 AM

Not a big fan of Vaccaro. On the surface, he has everything you look for in a safety. Good size. Physical. Very good range to cover a lot of ground in the deep middle or half, and can come up and make a play in the run game in a hurry. Has some ability in man coverage on TEs and jamming slot WRs.

But he really gets out of control way too often for my liking. He often takes poor angles and comes in high when attacking the LOS, leading to a lot of big plays.

I only saw Texas play a few times this year (WVU, Oklahoma, Oregon St), but they allowed a 75 yard pass to Wyoming, and three 20+ yard runs to New Mexico, both bad teams. 48 yard run, 75 yard pass vs. Ole Miss. They actually held WVU to only 1 big play (austin 40 yard TD). But OU was big play after big play, including a 95 yard run that was largely on Vaccaro for missing a tackle as the last line of defense. Vaccaro was solid in the bowl game though, IIRC.

Vaccaro will come off the board early based on his versatility and value as a special teamer. But I personally like Reid and Elam better, and he's about even with Jefferson.

Nastradamus 01-27-2013 11:12 AM

I don't know if he'll end up that high, but its certainly not ridiculous. He's getting talked about higher and higher in the draft and he could easily have a similar rise to Barron. They are pretty similar as prospects, Barron was a guy people thought might go to the Lions in the 20s at this time last year.

Babylon 01-27-2013 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princefielder28 (Post 3257397)
Elam has the heart of a lion, but his size will undoubtedly create problems for him at the next level and his long term durability, with his style of play, may contribute to a short career.

Robert Lester might be a 5th round pick. Honestly I don't think the guy is a draftable prospect.

Shawn Williams has the presence of a quality strong safety, but too frequently he becomes soft when the time calls for him to be physical.

Duke Williams is a play maker and possesses a skill set comparable to Cyprien but there are some off the field issues that may push his stock down.

Eric Reid is more of a strong safety in my opinion and while he's a solid player I don't see much of a wow factor with him to take above the likes of Cyprien, Duke Williams or Phillip Thomas.

Phillip Thomas is the perfect center field type safety for the league nowadays. He's also more physical than some give him credit for.

Rambo might be the biggest play maker of the entire safety class. I fear he might be the greatest deterrent from making himself into a stud in the NFL.

Swearinger is another impressive safety, instant starter in the league.

TJ McDonald has all the tools but I don't feel he'll ever put his skills fully together.

I'd add Cooper Taylor to that list, big safety out of Richmond who started out at Ga. Tech. He'd probably be in the mold of the big Seahawk db who can cover deep and deliver a blow.

duesouth 01-28-2013 05:58 AM

Vaccaro is a safety with press man coverage ability and despite too many missed tackles I think he can go very high. In this Draft class it wouldn't shock me if he was a top 5 pick. His skill set matches exactly what the NFL are looking for - same with D.J. Swearinger who is more of an off man type. They are 1 and 2 on my safety list because they are best in man coverage.

J-Mike88 02-07-2013 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duesouth (Post 3258107)
Vaccaro is a safety with press man coverage ability and despite too many missed tackles I think he can go very high.

Just came here to research this guy because I have seen his name to Green Bay in Rd 1 mocks more than any other player.
I know nothing about him, but I do know the Packers need physical guys on defense who are good tacklers. We have plenty of soft, p*ssies already as you guys saw against SF & Minny.

You say Vacarro misses too many tackles?
Sounds like he'd fit right in.... is that why a lot of folks mock him to us?

wicket 02-07-2013 12:23 PM

dont understand why vaccaro should be drafted that high, dont see anything special about him, about the fifth best player of one of the worst defenses in cfb

mightytitan9 02-07-2013 12:31 PM

I'm not defending Vaccaro or talking against him.

Just when analyzing him, or other players. Please realize what offenses they are playing against. In a spread offense based on quick passes it's harder.

A few years ago when JPP was coming out I kept saying "but look at the offenses he played" in defense to the "he only had 6.5 sacks defense". He was in position for many more, but played against some very athletic QBs

Razor 02-07-2013 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holt_bruce81 (Post 3257302)
Top 5? **** that, I'm not even comfortable taking him in the first round.

That's pretty much the way I feel. He's a really inconsistent tackler and sometimes he just bounces off the players he's trying to tackle. He's great in the slot, but that's about it. He's waaaaay to undisciplined for me to spend a first round pick on him.

princefielder28 02-07-2013 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor (Post 3268270)
That's pretty much the way I feel. He's a really inconsistent tackler and sometimes he just bounces off the players he's trying to tackle. He's great in the slot, but that's about it. He's waaaaay to undisciplined for me to spend a first round pick on him.

Being able to play the slot is significant in today's NFL. In some of his tape he has shown poor angles, but overall he's an aggressive safety and isn't afraid of placing a hit on an opponent.

Black Bolt 02-07-2013 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nastradamus (Post 3257413)
I don't know if he'll end up that high, but its certainly not ridiculous. He's getting talked about higher and higher in the draft and he could easily have a similar rise to Barron. They are pretty similar as prospects, Barron was a guy people thought might go to the Lions in the 20s at this time last year.

Okay, let me weigh in one last time. I find it curious that scouts would be talking him up at this point being that he had done absolutely NOTHING since Texas bowl game. Second, Barron moved up largely because he performed exceedingly well in workouts as a big S, thus questions about his speed and agility were answered. KV is not in the same boat as far as those elements are concerned as he isn't that big. Finally, ANY S being talked about anywhere near the top ten should be SPECIAL PLAYERS. There is nothing about KV that makes me think he will be an Ed Reed, Troy Polomalu or Sean Taylor coming out. Nothing.

Nastradamus 02-07-2013 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt (Post 3268279)
Okay, let me weigh in one last time. I find it curious that scouts would be talking him up at this point being that he had done absolutely NOTHING since Texas bowl game. Second, Barron moved up largely because he performed exceedingly well in workouts as a big S, thus questions about his speed and agility were answered. KV is not in the same boat as far as those elements are concerned as he isn't that big. Finally, ANY S being talked about anywhere near the top ten should be SPECIAL PLAYERS. There is nothing about KV that makes me think he will be an Ed Reed, Troy Polomalu or Sean Taylor coming out. Nothing.

Agree to disagree I guess. I think Vaccaro is the rare S who can be an intimidating presence in the box, can match up on WRs 1 on 1 and can play a nice center field zone and make some plays on the ball.

Whoever said he was the 5th best player on his D is on crack. He was the only saving grace of that defense and by far its best player. By FAR

Black Bolt 02-07-2013 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nastradamus (Post 3268386)
Agree to disagree I guess. I think Vaccaro is the rare S who can be an intimidating presence in the box, can match up on WRs 1 on 1 and can play a nice center field zone and make some plays on the ball.

Whoever said he was the 5th best player on his D is on crack. He was the only saving grace of that defense and by far its best player. By FAR

So.....where do we disagree? Read my post carefully.

wicket 02-07-2013 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nastradamus (Post 3268386)
Agree to disagree I guess. I think Vaccaro is the rare S who can be an intimidating presence in the box, can match up on WRs 1 on 1 and can play a nice center field zone and make some plays on the ball.

Whoever said he was the 5th best player on his D is on crack. He was the only saving grace of that defense and by far its best player. By FAR

he systematically missed tackles and took terrible angles, doesnt have elite physical tools. His only asset is that he is somewhat useful in 1 on 1 coverage.

Diggs, Okafor, Edmond and Jeffcoat (when he still was fit) all were playing better football than vaccaro

AntoinCD 02-07-2013 03:31 PM

In regards to Vaccaro, he can play man coverage in the slot, he has great range to be a centre fielder but he isn't going to scare anyone going across the middle. In saying that you don't have many rangy, quick twitch safeties who can lay the lumber. I like him as a mid to late first but not top 10 and definitely not top 5


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