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-   -   Ex-Chiefs G.M. Ranks the Top 10 Underclassmen (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55427)

Brown Leader 01-28-2013 12:21 PM

Ex-Chiefs G.M. Ranks the Top 10 Underclassmen
 
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...underclassmen/
Quote:

Peter King’s latest Monday Morning Quarterback column contains a segment with ex-Chiefs G.M. Scott Pioli where Pioli ranks the top-ten underclassmen available for April’s NFL draft. It’s a rare glimpse into an NFL General Manager’s mindset regarding draft opinions front-office decision makers keep so secret.
1. Luke Joeckel
2. Dee Milliner
3. Shariff Floyd
4. Bjoern Werner
5. John Hankins
6. Eddie Lacy
7. Jarvis Jones
8. Keenan Allen
9. Alec Ogletree
10 Gavin Escobar

SuperPacker 01-28-2013 12:23 PM

Gavin Escobar ftw!

Don Vito 01-28-2013 12:24 PM

Gavin Escobar? Interesting. Interesting prospect but you don't see his name in the first round mix at all. It happens with at least one prospect evey year, but you don't usually see tight ends come out of nowhere in the pre-draft process and go in the first.

Black Bolt 01-28-2013 12:27 PM

J. Jones stock takes another hit.

Iamcanadian 01-28-2013 12:33 PM

Cannot be ignored but you have to remember that KC played a 3-4 and that is what Pioli has always been associated with, 4-3 teams and Cover 2 teams can have a completely different defensive board.
Also the process of scouting juniors is just getting up to full steam, their impact comes mostly at the combine and their pro days of which Pioli has yet to evaluate.
As an example, college DE's who will switch to 3-4 OLB's will be followed closely in the rest of the post season to see how they adjust to the switch, Pioli has no idea of those results as yet.

FUNBUNCHER 01-28-2013 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt (Post 3258327)
J. Jones stock takes another hit.


Must be the back issues.

Don Vito 01-28-2013 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt (Post 3258327)
J. Jones stock takes another hit.

Anyone who watched both Georgia and Florida play this year knows Jarvis Jones should not be below Floyd. Obviously the back is a concern and some people question if he will bomb the combine, but neither of those things have happened yet. No reason to have Floyd above him now. Different positions I know, but still ridiculous.

For "big board" purposes, sure I gues you could put Lacy ahead of him. That is a stretch right now too though.

Hankins? Same thing as Floyd. Can't see how you have him over Jones now.

Keep in mind this is Pioli though, he strokes it to 3-4 defensive linemen. That is the only reason he could logically have those two players rated higher than Jones right now. That is also why this article ex-GM.

gpngc 01-28-2013 01:41 PM

Was It Pioli who made the T. Jackson shocker pick?

killxswitch 01-28-2013 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpngc (Post 3258424)
Was It Pioli who made the T. Jackson shocker pick?

Indeed it was.

Trogdor 01-28-2013 01:47 PM

Keyword: Ex

Pretty sure even Todd McShay could make a more realistic top 10 listing.

AntoinCD 01-28-2013 01:57 PM

Pioli is no longer a GM because he had too much loyalty to his guys, Romeo, Cassell etc not because he is a bad evaluator. He made some good picks in KC as well. Plus, its not like it was just him sitting by himself making this list. He will have had input from KC scouts while there. Guys are viewed highly now but that is in draftnik and media circles. Guys don't rise or fall in the draft, it is simply the closer we get to the draft more info from scouts and teams come out and the media jump on it. This time last year Chandler Jones was a consensus late second/third round pick. He didn't blow up the combine or pro day but yet 2 weeks before the draft he was in every first round mock. Sure Pioli ended up looking bad in KC but ill take his opinion over virtually anyone giving their opinion at this time, ie - anyone who isn't an actual scout or GM

villagewarrior 01-28-2013 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpngc (Post 3258424)
Was It Pioli who made the T. Jackson shocker pick?

Exactly. The fact that Joeckel is at the top of his board makes me anti-Joeckel.

Duffman57 01-28-2013 02:06 PM

I dont necessarily agree that because he is a former GM, he knows more than the better draftniks. I feel like the thing that separates NFL talent evaluators from the best of the draftniks is more dedication and access to info than anything. The NFL scouts opinions differ more because they take more time to study tape, and they have access to all the information that all of us aren't able to see. Add that to the fact that there's so many of them, working to fit guys with one specific team and know exactly what that team wants. Thats what differentiates the NFL talent scouts to the best of the draftniks. It may just be me, but thats how i've always felt.

When a guy isn't a GM anymore, and doesn't have all of that inside information that the media/draftniks dont get, he becomes no better than any one of us. That may just be my stupidity though.

Plus wasn't Pioli more of a personal guy rather than a scout, coming up? or am i thinking of someone else.

Splat 01-28-2013 02:14 PM

He would have drafted Luke Joeckel and rolled with Matt Cassel another year.

:facepalm:

nepg 01-28-2013 02:17 PM

Underclassmen being the key word there. Pioli typically values Seniors. You can't look at this and say "He would have drafted Joeckel!" Geno Smith is a senior. So is Star Lotulelei. He's also not a "BPA no matter what" guy.

SuperPacker 01-28-2013 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Vito (Post 3258321)
Gavin Escobar? Interesting. Interesting prospect but you don't see his name in the first round mix at all. It happens with at least one prospect evey year, but you don't usually see tight ends come out of nowhere in the pre-draft process and go in the first.

Hes legit. I would not at all be surprised if he's the best TE from this draft class.

TACKLE 01-28-2013 04:45 PM

Gavin Pablo Escobar is a bigger Dennis Pitta. Could easily see him being the best (and highest drafted) TE in this class. Leaves some to be desired from what I've seen so far from him as an inline blocker but that's not that big of a deal depending the offense he's drafted into.

King Carls 5 Year Plan 01-28-2013 04:46 PM

Pioli was way to busy watching candy wrappers in the stairwell to have an accurate draft board.

in all seriousness, he valued some positions much higher than others. i think Shariff is right in his wheel house. he loved DLineman. he wasn't always successfull drafting them, but he kept targeting them. his recent drafts looked good on paper, but failed on the field. point blank, his drafts with KC sucked. almost no production from his 1st round picks. mid/late rounders that are out of football in 2 or 3 years. he had his rare good moments (Houston, Berry maybe Succop), but over all he did a poor job drafting. but a big board in January is sucked to massive change. especially his. he loves the combine freaks.

Black Bolt 01-28-2013 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE (Post 3258589)
Gavin Pablo Escobar is a bigger Dennis Pitta. Could easily see him being the best (and highest drafted) TE in this class. Leaves some to be desired from what I've seen so far from him as an inline blocker but that's not that big of a deal depending the offense he's drafted into.

I am not sure what people don't like about Tyler Eifert. He's turning into the Jason Witten of this year's draft.

BearTooth 01-28-2013 07:44 PM

Biggest surprise to me is no Sheldon Richardson.

nepg 01-28-2013 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Carls 5 Year Plan (Post 3258590)
Pioli was way to busy watching candy wrappers in the stairwell to have an accurate draft board.

in all seriousness, he valued some positions much higher than others. i think Shariff is right in his wheel house. he loved DLineman. he wasn't always successfull drafting them, but he kept targeting them. his recent drafts looked good on paper, but failed on the field. point blank, his drafts with KC sucked. almost no production from his 1st round picks. mid/late rounders that are out of football in 2 or 3 years. he had his rare good moments (Houston, Berry maybe Succop), but over all he did a poor job drafting. but a big board in January is sucked to massive change. especially his. he loves the combine freaks.

Pioli's drafts had really bad luck with injuries. Berry, Moeaki, Lewis, Hudson, and Baldwin all went down at key points in their development.

In the last three drafts, on Draft Day, the Chiefs were considered to be big winners. It's not for no reason. His picks were a lot better than what he's given credit for and the man never loses a trade.

And if you go by the general rule to wait 3 years to judge a draft, he hit on 6 players in the 2010 draft and Sheffield even looked really promising, but could never stay healthy. 6 starters in one draft, and they'll all be starters in 2013 in all likelihood.

We can go back and look at 2011 at the end of the year, but they really went after high-potential players in that draft after playing it a bit safe in 2010 and 2009. Houston should have gone to the Pro Bowl, Hudson was playing at a Pro Bowl-to-All Pro level when he went down, and they still have Jalil Brown (special teams ace with high upside at CB), Jon Baldwin (interested in seeing what a competent offensive staff can do with him), Allen Bailey, and Jerrel Powe.

Babylon 01-28-2013 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BearTooth (Post 3258745)
Biggest surprise to me is no Sheldon Richardson.

I would have Richardson, Mingo and Eifert in there.

Ozzy 01-28-2013 09:24 PM

Quote:

Peter Kingís latest Monday Morning Quarterback column contains a segment with ex-Chiefs G.M. Scott Pioli where Pioli ranks the top-ten underclassmen available for Aprilís NFL draft. Itís a rare glimpse into an NFL General Managerís mindset regarding draft opinions front-office decision makers keep so secret.
1. Luke Joeckel
2. Dee Milliner
3. Shariff Floyd
4. Bjoern Werner
5. John Hankins
6. Eddie Lacy
7. Jarvis Jones
8. Keenan Allen
9. Alec Ogletree
10 Gavin Escobar
It is an interesting list, the Lacy love I can kind of see, but Bell from Michigan State had a great season with much much much less talent around him. Milliner I like but really he will benefit from a weak corner class I feel.

1 Luke Joeckel
2 Bjoern Werner
3 Jonathan Hankins
4 Barkevious Mingo
5 Alec Ogletree
6 D.J. Fluker
7 Jarvis Jones
8 Tony Jefferson
9 Tyler Eifert
10 DeAndre Hopkins


Here is how I would rank them on production and potential this past season. Jones dropping a little because of the injury history, Jefferson does not get enough attention, he is a damn good player. And Hopkins might not be the most talented receiver, but he is solid as a rock, great hands good route runner and could possibly be the best of the group but that depends on if the others reach their potential or not.

Robcards 01-28-2013 10:40 PM

Damontre Moore didn't even make the list. No wonder he got fired.

bigbuc 01-29-2013 01:36 AM

I just don't think he was looking at DE's in a even front. He shouldn't have been looking at Jones. He has/had no reason to draft a OLB early in the draft. He has two studs already.


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