Draft Countdown Forums

Draft Countdown Forums (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/index.php)
-   Pro Football (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=44)
-   -   Franchise Quarterback least likely to win Superbowl as Starter Part IV (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55549)

Chris777 02-05-2013 12:57 AM

Franchise Quarterback least likely to win Superbowl as Starter Part IV
 
I always enjoy making these threads and hearing the responses even if the last one ended up as thunderdome; had Tebow in. Ironically enough no one voted for Flacco...did my thread predict the superbowl winner?

I took out some obvious ones which would skew this poll like Sanchez, Romo, and Tebow.

Ness 02-05-2013 01:28 AM

I think it might be hard for Dalton. Not just on him though. The Bengals organization has been lackluster for quite some time with Mike Brown in charge of ownership. I think Dalton might need a really good team around him just to have a chance at getting there.

Caulibflower 02-05-2013 02:17 AM

I don't know how to answer this thread. Am I supposed to rank the player I think is least individually capable, or just predict whether or not I think they'll ever win a Super Bowl? I suppose I feel like Schaub and Dalton are the least intimidating as players, but they're on decent teams. On the other hand, I feel like Cam Newton and Matthew Stafford are good bets to be the kind of players who put up huge statlines and regularly make Sportcenter's top 10 throughout their careers but still might never get to showcase their full potential in the playoffs. I've got no idea what's going on in either Detroit or Carolina, and it's sorta been that way for awhile.

Mufasa 02-05-2013 02:26 AM

Probably at least 8 of these 10 never will, so it's hard to be wrong, but I chose Newton. Everyone in the poll besides Newton and Stafford made the playoffs this year, and Stafford did make it last year. The Panthers are the team that's the farthest away, and while I think Newton is a good QB, he's not an elite QB who can win it on his own.

9. Matt Ryan
8. Colin Kaepernick
7. Russel Wilson
6. Matt Schaub
5. Robert Griffin
4. Andrew Luck
3. Matthew Stafford
2. Andy Dalton
1. Cam Newton

Mufasa 02-05-2013 02:26 AM

Probably at least 8 of these 10 never will, so it's hard to be wrong, but I chose Newton. Everyone in the poll besides Newton and Stafford made the playoffs this year, and Stafford did make it last year. The Panthers are the team that's the farthest away, and while I think Newton is a good QB, he's not an elite QB who can win it on his own.

9. Matt Ryan
8. Colin Kaepernick
7. Russel Wilson
6. Matt Schaub
5. Robert Griffin
4. Andrew Luck
3. Matthew Stafford
2. Andy Dalton
1. Cam Newton

Mufasa 02-05-2013 02:27 AM

Probably at least 8 of these 10 never will, so it's hard to be wrong, but I chose Newton. Everyone in the poll besides Newton and Stafford made the playoffs this year, and Stafford did make it last year. The Panthers are the team that's the farthest away, and while I think Newton is a good QB, he's not an elite QB who can win it on his own.

9. Matt Ryan
8. Colin Kaepernick
7. Russel Wilson
6. Matt Schaub
5. Robert Griffin
4. Andrew Luck
3. Matthew Stafford
2. Andy Dalton
1. Cam Newton

Mufasa 02-05-2013 02:28 AM

****...........

Caulibflower 02-05-2013 03:36 AM

Don't worry. We heard you.

BigBanger 02-06-2013 03:55 AM

Maybe I just absolutely hate Matt Schaub because every time I talk about him or post about him it's something negative - despite the fact that I think he's a solid QB - but I don't associate him with being a winner or a great leader. And I simply cannot fathom him winning a Super Bowl. The only way he wins is if he's a backup. That team is absolutely stacked. The Texans have as much talent as 95% of the league (I did the calculations), but he's going to hold them back for as long as he's there. It's always been my opinion.

Andy Dalton isn't a franchise QB, so I'm hesitant to even bother talking about him. He is limited as a thrower. He's, again, a solid QB but he has limited physical tools. And come playoff time, I don't think you can win anymore without having a near elite QB. And to be a near elite QB you have to the physical tools. You just do. Its why scouts and coaches still drool over arm strength (and always will). The Bengals don't have the coaching or the type of franchise that's going to put together a legendary defense, or an offensive team that is utterly dominant in the running game. And that's what Dalton would need (and AJ Green for the rest of his career). One thing that I've noticed about Dalton is his lack of ability to trust his eyes. He double clutches and holds onto the ball too long and misses too many open targets. I don't know if its because he is still young, but if that's something that he cant correct, then he's going to be the type of guy that's consistently in the 15-20 range of QBs in this league. And those guys don't win Super Bowls.

bam bam 02-06-2013 04:18 AM




Matt Ryan

jrdrylie 02-06-2013 08:40 AM

Here is how I would rank them, most likely to least likely.

1. Andrew Luck- He has already shown he can carry a team. As the young receivers around him develop and the talent improves, I'd be quite surprised if he doesn't win one.

2. Matt Ryan- They should have won it this year I think. Horrible coaching and the defenses inability to cover a tight end derailed the Falcons though. Improve that and I think they win next year.

3. Collin Kaepernick- He has already made it to the Super Bowl. Of the running QBs, I think he is the most likely to develop as an elite passer, which goes a long way in winning a Super Bowl.

4. Russell Wilson- I like what he showed last year. He has a good young defense to back him up and a great running attack. A few more weapons on offense and I could definitely see them winning a Super Bowl.

5. Andy Dalton- Unlike others, I think Dalton is good enough to take a team to a Super Bowl. But he can't do it alone and I still don't trust the organization to put together an elite team.

6. Matthew Stafford- The team is a mess. They aren't going to win a title with Schwartz at head coach. And if they fire him, it might take a few seasons to get back on track. Don't like his chances.

7. Robert Griffin III- I think he will face injuries his entire career because of his playing style. I also think the read-option will be figured out this offseason. Of the guys who run it, he showed me the least in terms of being able to beat guys with his arm.

8. Cam Newton- Cam really rubs me the wrong way. I've followed him since his Freshman year and I never liked him. The final nail in the coffin was when he scored a TD last year while down three TDs. He shrugged off his teammates congratulating him and did his little Superman celebration. Cam, you're still down two TDs, stop celebrating.

9. Matt Schaub- Nothing against the guy but he is the oldest so his chances are the worst. I just don't see the Texans getting much better than they already are. And if you aren't moving forward, you're moving backwards.

killxswitch 02-06-2013 09:14 AM

Matt Schaub is Ryan Fitzpatrick in a better situation. He will never win a SB.

broncosfan 02-06-2013 09:33 AM

Cam Newton and Matthew Stafford are two guys who I think won't even smell the playoffs for at least 2-3 more years, both teams are not talented enough to make it in an extremely competitive NFC. A lot can happen in that time frame (injuries, changes in coaching staff, management) and usually (at least for the Lions) if thing can go wrong they will go wrong and in the worst way.

FUNBUNCHER 02-06-2013 02:17 PM

" 7. Robert Griffin III- I think he will face injuries his entire career because of his playing style. I also think the read-option will be figured out this offseason. Of the guys who run it, he showed me the least in terms of being able to beat guys with his arm."

Hmm. Okay.
You're the first person I've heard say they were more impressed with Griffin's running ability than his passing skills.
You do know he had two 4 TD passing games last season, right??

jrdrylie 02-06-2013 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER (Post 3267452)
" 7. Robert Griffin III- I think he will face injuries his entire career because of his playing style. I also think the read-option will be figured out this offseason. Of the guys who run it, he showed me the least in terms of being able to beat guys with his arm."

Hmm. Okay.
You're the first person I've heard say they were more impressed with Griffin's running ability than his passing skills.
You do know he had two 4 TD passing games last season, right??

More accurately, I think he will be the least willing to alter his playing style. Watching a guy like Kaepernick, I already see him as a passer who can run. Wilson doens't pass as much, but he is much smarter with his running (sliding, avoiding hits). I think the Redskins will have some nice seasons with him behind he wheel but too often he'll be sitting on the bench.

mightytitan9 02-06-2013 03:31 PM

I voted for Schaub.

There are several reasons as to why I did this.

1) HEALTH He's always had injuries problems, he's only played all 16 games 3 times in his career. Since being a starter, he's played 11 games or less 3 times. So basically as a starter it's 50/50 on whether he'll play 11 games or 16 games.

2) HIS AGE He's 31, soon to be 32. Schaub has never appeared to me as one who will play forever, I think he has maybe 3-4 years left.

3) SUPPORTING CAST Right now his supporting cast is very very good. However, Andre Johnson has a history of injuries and will turn 32 this season. Kevin Walter is 31, Owen Daniels will turn 31 and also has a history of injuries. Arian Foster has declined every year in the league, with the amount of carries he's getting he has 3 years as a good back. They drafted two young OL last season, but his starting LG is 31, and so is his starting Center. Many key starters on defense are also 30+ years.
4. SALARY CAP They've been holding the team together and it will be interesting to see what the cap does in the next few years

J-Mike88 02-06-2013 07:32 PM

Schaub has 4, 5, 6 years left... he doesn't have a ton of wear & tear on him, and look at the old QB's these days.
That team is good.

For me it was between Dalton and Stafford.
The Lions suck. Dysfunctional.
The Bengals aren't that good but are better.... not as dysfunctional as they used to be.
I went with Dalton though because Stafford is better than he is.

K Train 02-06-2013 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris777 (Post 3265968)

I took out some obvious ones which would skew this poll like Sanchez, Romo, and Tebow.

i just do not have romo in that pathetically low of a tier

Brent 02-06-2013 07:36 PM

I don't expect RG3 to be healthy enough to do so

:\

Rosebud 02-06-2013 07:40 PM

The Matts, Schaub and Ryan, would be a top my list.

OzTitan 02-07-2013 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBanger (Post 3267044)
Maybe I just absolutely hate Matt Schaub because every time I talk about him or post about him it's something negative - despite the fact that I think he's a solid QB - but I don't associate him with being a winner or a great leader. And I simply cannot fathom him winning a Super Bowl. The only way he wins is if he's a backup. That team is absolutely stacked. The Texans have as much talent as 95% of the league (I did the calculations), but he's going to hold them back for as long as he's there. It's always been my opinion.

+1. And it's not a Titans homer bagging the rivals thing, Luck in his rookie year has shown more to me on his chances of being a SB QB than Schaub ever has and not only because Luck hasn't had a chance yet to disprove it - I mean he has literally already shown more of the edge usually needed to achieve it.

Down the stretch and into the playoffs the Texans seemed to treat Schaub with kiddy gloves and the offense started to resemble the same one Yates ran in 2011. It was a bit odd. I suspect they too have their doubts about Schaub passing his way to victory.

mightytitan9 02-07-2013 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Mike88 (Post 3267806)
Schaub has 4, 5, 6 years left... he doesn't have a ton of wear & tear on him, and look at the old QB's these days.
That team is good.

For me it was between Dalton and Stafford.
The Lions suck. Dysfunctional.
The Bengals aren't that good but are better.... not as dysfunctional as they used to be.
I went with Dalton though because Stafford is better than he is.

But he can't stay healthy, if he can't stay healthy in his late 20s how is he going to in his mid 30s?

I think it's kind of absurd to say Schaub has a better chance of winning than Dalton or Stafford. To say the Lions and Bengals are still going to be a dysfunctional team in 8-10 years, when these guys are still playing is hard to do.

If for no other reason than the ones I've already listed, I think Schaub has to be on the list because he's the the oldest. He's got 4 years max.

mightytitan9 02-07-2013 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzTitan (Post 3267999)
+1. And it's not a Titans homer bagging the rivals thing, Luck in his rookie year has shown more to me on his chances of being a SB QB than Schaub ever has and not only because Luck hasn't had a chance yet to disprove it - I mean he has literally already shown more of the edge usually needed to achieve it.

Down the stretch and into the playoffs the Texans seemed to treat Schaub with kiddy gloves and the offense started to resemble the same one Yates ran in 2011. It was a bit odd. I suspect they too have their doubts about Schaub passing his way to victory.

Exactly. It's not a division rival thing at all. Luck is good, Luck is already a better QB than Schaub. Luck has shown he can carry a team. Schaub has not.

bigbluedefense 02-07-2013 02:57 PM

I went with Dalton. He can't make all the throws. And if you can't make all the throws you're gonna have a hard time making it to the SB.

This last SB was a great display of arm talent. Both quarterbacks had rockets connected to their shoulders.

Dalton, in his 2 playoff games, was clearly gameplanned for. They dared him to make arm throws all game and he could not consistently deliver those throws. That will be his downfall if he doesn't somehow try to improve his arm strength and deepball accuracy. Perhaps he can take notes from Peyton and condition his body so he can generate more power from his legs and core, but whatever he has to do, he better figure it out. Bc he's limited and it's holding back what could be a potent Cinncy offense.

Monomach 02-07-2013 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense (Post 3268440)
I went with Dalton. He can't make all the throws. And if you can't make all the throws you're gonna have a hard time making it to the SB.

This last SB was a great display of arm talent. Both quarterbacks had rockets connected to their shoulders.

Dalton, in his 2 playoff games, was clearly gameplanned for. They dared him to make arm throws all game and he could not consistently deliver those throws. That will be his downfall if he doesn't somehow try to improve his arm strength and deepball accuracy. Perhaps he can take notes from Peyton and condition his body so he can generate more power from his legs and core, but whatever he has to do, he better figure it out. Bc he's limited and it's holding back what could be a potent Cinncy offense.

But doesn't u knowz? Teh arm strengthz is the easiest thing to fix!

I'd link to that thread, but I'm sure you saw it.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:33 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.