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-   -   Dee Milliner vs. Morris Claiborne (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55576)

gpngc 02-07-2013 11:03 AM

Dee Milliner vs. Morris Claiborne
 
Was Claiborne a better prospect last year than Milliner is this year?

It's an interesting question. And the more appropriate time to answer it might actually be after the combine so we can see what Milliner's long speed really is.

Here's what I think:

Claiborne:
- Faster
- Better ball skills
- Better playmaker with the ball in his hands
- Slightly better tackler

Milliner:
- Bigger
- Better hips and feet/more fluid
- Better m2m
- Better in zone
- More instinctive

Assuming Milliner runs under a 4.5 (I have a small concern there), he's my pick. Probably the best pure cover CB I've scouted (I remember loving Revis but did not ever label him as the best cover CB I've ever scouted probably because no one threw on him. I had him 13th overall that year though).

thetedginnshow 02-07-2013 01:29 PM

Of the recent top CB prospects, I would rate them:

1. Patrick Peterson
2. Darrelle Revis
3. Dee Milliner
4. Morris Claiborne

I would say Milliner is healthily above Claiborne. I would say Milliner is better at everything, and he was the only one of the two that flashed on-screen. I'm not really concerned with his long-speed because while it might not be elite, I think it's more than enough. How he uses his hands, his hips, and his technique when the ball is in the air more than make up for whatever other deficiencies he may have.

Nastradamus 02-07-2013 03:12 PM

I always worry about Bama corners a little since they have generally never had to backpedal.

Matthew Jones 02-07-2013 03:41 PM

Claiborne was easily a better prospect; he'd probably go second or third in this class.

princefielder28 02-07-2013 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones (Post 3268421)
Claiborne was easily a better prospect; he'd probably go second or third in this class.

I agree...Claiborne would probably be an option for Kansas City too

holt_bruce81 02-07-2013 04:15 PM

I think Claiborne was the better prospect. But I liked him over Peterson as well.

Iamcanadian 02-07-2013 04:29 PM

There is only one way Milliner could even come close to Claiborne and that is if he runs a 4.40 at the combine, otherwise it is no contest and I seriously doubt he runs that fast.

holt_bruce81 02-07-2013 04:33 PM

Even if he does run a good/great forty, that's not gping to leap frog him over Claiborne as a prospect in my eyes.

rawdawg 02-07-2013 08:16 PM

Claiborne's easily a better prospect than Milliner is. The speed and ball skills are a couple notches better. Everything else is at least on par. No contest, IMO.

BallerT1215 02-07-2013 09:34 PM

Claiborne.....didn't even think it over...

Black Bolt 02-08-2013 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpngc (Post 3268150)
Was Claiborne a better prospect last year than Milliner is this year?

It's an interesting question. And the more appropriate time to answer it might actually be after the combine so we can see what Milliner's long speed really is.

Here's what I think:

Claiborne:
- Faster
- Better ball skills
- Better playmaker with the ball in his hands
- Slightly better tackler

Milliner:
- Bigger
- Better hips and feet/more fluid
- Better m2m
- Better in zone
- More instinctive

Assuming Milliner runs under a 4.5 (I have a small concern there), he's my pick. Probably the best pure cover CB I've scouted (I remember loving Revis but did not ever label him as the best cover CB I've ever scouted probably because no one threw on him. I had him 13th overall that year though).

Did you scout Richard Sherman? And how about Leon Hall when it comes to pure coverage skills?

TheFinisher 02-08-2013 01:53 PM

How I'd rank them from 2003-Now as prospects:


1. Patrick Peterson
2. Terence Newman
3. Deangelo Hall
4. Pacman Jones
5. Morris Claiborne
6. Darrelle Revis
7. Marcus Trufant
8. Joe Haden
9. Antrelle Rolle
10. Leon Hall
11. Dee Milliner
12. Antonio Cromartie
13. Dunta Robinson
14. Carlos Rogers
15. Malcolm Jenkins

gpngc 02-08-2013 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt (Post 3268904)
Did you scout Richard Sherman? And how about Leon Hall when it comes to pure coverage skills?

Never scouted Sherman for one second. I actually thought Maxwell from Clemson had a chance to stick as a late-round CB Seattle took that year. I didn't even know his story about being a WR first and all that. Just missed it. I try to get a feel for as many guys as I can and if I can't find tape at least read up, but I never got to Sherman.

Leon Hall was a scrappier player. Not nearly as smooth. He wasn't really throw at much because they had dumb ass Morgan Trent on the other side and he had a rep.

Hall was just a very solid player but the Big 10 receivers were overmatched. He was just a better athlete. Smaller guy. Real aggressive as a tackler. He had more speed than just about anyone in the conference. I charted a game against JD Booty and Jarrett and Steve Smith and he gave up some plays. His size can be an issue against the best big WRs. But he's had a very good career and I'm not surprised.


But Milliner's just way more fluid. And a much better zone CB. He's just so instinctive and breaks on the ball and with his reach and size.. he's a nightmare. No QB is going to be able to throw it to the hole in cover two against him.

K Train 02-08-2013 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFinisher (Post 3269069)
How I'd rank them from 2003-Now as prospects:


1. Patrick Peterson
2. Terence Newman
3. Deangelo Hall
4. Pacman Jones
5. Morris Claiborne
6. Darrelle Revis
7. Marcus Trufant
8. Joe Haden
9. Antrelle Rolle
10. Leon Hall
11. Dee Milliner
12. Antonio Cromartie
13. Dunta Robinson
14. Carlos Rogers
15. Malcolm Jenkins

this is legit....of course everyone was super high on revis and asomugha if you ask them now, but they were not anywhere near the level that peterson, newman, hall, pacman were regarded those years. as a prospect id argue that haden, rolle, hall all should be above revis (even though haden slightly benefited from a weak CB class)

**** i had janoris jenkins rated higher than most of these guys too talent wise, i thought he was minimum neck and neck with claiborne and definitely above haden (kinda thought hed go to the browns at the pick they took weeden)

i was infatuated with cromartie so id bump him a bit, and i loved me some DRC too

cant really brag though, i loathed the thought of revis as a steeler the year we got timmons...so many revis and carriker rumors just made me so angry....**** me right

Black Bolt 02-08-2013 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpngc (Post 3269083)
Never scouted Sherman for one second. I actually thought Maxwell from Clemson had a chance to stick as a late-round CB Seattle took that year. I didn't even know his story about being a WR first and all that. Just missed it. I try to get a feel for as many guys as I can and if I can't find tape at least read up, but I never got to Sherman.

Leon Hall was a scrappier player. Not nearly as smooth. He wasn't really throw at much because they had dumb ass Morgan Trent on the other side and he had a rep.

Hall was just a very solid player but the Big 10 receivers were overmatched. He was just a better athlete. Smaller guy. Real aggressive as a tackler. He had more speed than just about anyone in the conference. I charted a game against JD Booty and Jarrett and Steve Smith and he gave up some plays. His size can be an issue against the best big WRs. But he's had a very good career and I'm not surprised.


But Milliner's just way more fluid. And a much better zone CB. He's just so instinctive and breaks on the ball and with his reach and size.. he's a nightmare. No QB is going to be able to throw it to the hole in cover two against him.

Okay. I just thought highly of Hall because his quickness and tenaciousness despite his size. As far as Sherman, I was a lone wolf on him and I wanted the Raiders to draft him SO badly!! No ties to Stanford, just saw him play few times and he stood out. He basically a clone of Al Harris. Even when he is beaten, it's only momentarily.

Black Bolt 02-08-2013 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K Train (Post 3269088)
this is legit....of course everyone was super high on revis and asomugha if you ask them now, but they were not anywhere near the level that peterson, newman, hall, pacman were regarded those years. as a prospect id argue that haden, rolle, hall all should be above revis (even though haden slightly benefited from a weak CB class)

**** i had janoris jenkins rated higher than most of these guys too talent wise, i thought he was minimum neck and neck with claiborne and definitely above haden (kinda thought hed go to the browns at the pick they took weeden)

i was infatuated with cromartie so id bump him a bit, and i loved me some DRC too

cant really brag though, i loathed the thought of revis as a steeler the year we got timmons...so many revis and carriker rumors just made me so angry....**** me right

For me, Cromartie would be tip five, maybe #1 until I heard him speak. You couldn't built a better freak for the position. Super long arms, runs like the the wind and in inhumanly agile on top of all that.

K Train 02-08-2013 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt (Post 3269092)
For me, Cromartie would be tip five, maybe #1 until I heard him speak. You couldn't built a better freak for the position. Super long arms, runs like the the wind and in inhumanly agile on top of all that.

had he not tore up his knee while at FSU he definitely would have gone much higher.....all of what you said with just unreal ball skills

abount Dee Milliner, i dont know what to make of him....i want to say i like him but i also liked kareem jackson and hes just ok. I didnt think barron was all that and that bamas d made him look much better than he was and the dude is a freakin stud

****!

bucfan12 02-08-2013 04:24 PM

Milliner is a solid first round prospect t but I question his ability to play man. He's good in zone but he benefited a lot from that bama front 7. Also the lack of nfl wr prospects he faced as well.

Honestly the more film I watch the more I'm loving Trufant over both Rhodes and milliner. But ther is no elite cb in this draft. Honestly I have 2 guys with first round grades both top 15-20 overall value. I just don't see it.

P-L 02-08-2013 04:46 PM

I'm not sure Milliner is even the best corner in this year's class. I agree with bucfan, that I'm starting to like Rhodes and Trufant more.

rawdawg 02-08-2013 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFinisher (Post 3269069)
How I'd rank them from 2003-Now as prospects:


1. Patrick Peterson
2. Terence Newman
3. Deangelo Hall
4. Pacman Jones
5. Morris Claiborne
6. Darrelle Revis
7. Marcus Trufant
8. Joe Haden
9. Antrelle Rolle
10. Leon Hall
11. Dee Milliner
12. Antonio Cromartie
13. Dunta Robinson
14. Carlos Rogers
15. Malcolm Jenkins

Good list. Just winging this, I would go this order.

1. Patrick Peterson
2. Antonio Cromartie - fully agree with earlier comments on him
3. Deangelo Hall
4. Darrelle Revis - live in Pittsburgh, was fully aware of his abilities
5. Joe Haden- close to Revis, IMO.
6. Antrell Rolle
7. Morris Claiborne
8. Terrence Newman
9. Pacman Jones
10. Leon Hall
11. Carlos Rogers
12. Rodgers-Cromartie
13. Tye Hill
14. Marcus Trufant
15. Dunta Robinson

Big_Pete 02-17-2013 08:08 PM

Dee Milliner seems to me to be more like Prince Amukamara

He isn't going to test out amazingly and isn't the ballhawk.

I actually think there is a shot that he slips like Prince did in the draft

gpngc 02-26-2013 11:21 AM

After an impressive showing at the combine, I think this discussion could be re-visited.

He obviously has no issues whatsoever with long speed as that's actually a strength.

And his on-field performance re-affirmed what I thought I saw on film and then became unsure of after getting some responses: his fluidity, feet, hips, and natural coverage ability are as good as it gets.

AcheTen (Thumper) 02-26-2013 11:24 AM

Millner is a better fit for a Cover-2. He's a better CB against the run, but Claiborne's pure cover skills man-to-man are superior.

nepg 02-26-2013 11:25 AM

I always felt his ability to cover was more about technique and instincts than raw speed. His combine performance combined with those traits make him an elite corner.

gpngc 02-26-2013 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AcheTen (Post 3283268)
Millner is a better fit for a Cover-2. He's a better CB against the run, but Claiborne's pure cover skills man-to-man are superior.

Claiborne was a terrific man corner but if you watch Milliner's tape you'll see a guy who doesn't get beat. He's given up catches while draped over receivers, but he can work on his ball skills. I also like that he's longer and bigger than Claiborne. In the NFL separation can be simply body positioning and catch radius. Milliner's size will come in handy there.


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