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-   -   Front Seven Rankings (Top 15 DE's/DT's/LB's) (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55595)

princefielder28 02-09-2013 08:18 AM

Front Seven Rankings (Top 15 DE's/DT's/LB's)
 
Please continue with the discussion, criticism, and posting of other rankings now with the defensive linemen and linebackers.

Previous Rankings
Corners & Safeties (1/29): http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/...ad.php?t=55445
Receivers & Tight Ends (2/1): http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/...ad.php?t=55490
Quarterbacks & Running backs (2/3): http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/...ad.php?t=55531
Offensive Linemen (2/6): http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/...ad.php?t=55562

Defensive Ends

1. Bjoern Werner : FLORIDA STATE
2. Damontre Moore : TEXAS A&M
3. Ezekiel Ansah : BRIGHAM YOUNG
4. Sam Montgomery : LOUISIANA STATE
5. Datone Jones : UCLA
6. Alex Okafor : TEXAS
7. Cornellius Carradine : FLORIDA STATE
8. David Bass : MISSOURI WESTERN
9. Corey Lemonier : AUBURN
10. Michael Buchanan : ILLINOIS
11. Malliciah Goodman : CLEMSON
12. Margus Hunt : SOUTHERN METHODIST
13. William Gholston : MICHIGAN STATE
14. John Simon : OHIO STATE
15. Tourek Williams : FLORIDA INTERNATIONAL

Analysis: The six guys who top this list are all first round possibilities so once again we have a strong position within this draft. Ezekiel Ansah is easily one of the most discussed prospects, and it's tough to tell how high he will go but there's no doubt about the Top 20. Sam Montgomery was a pre-season Top 5 prospect, and while he didn't have the season most were hoping for, he was solid and possesses the skill set to be a fantastic all-around end in the NFL. Malliciah Goodman is one of the more intriguing and puzzling prospects in this draft class. Physically he has all the necessities to be a very good player, but to this point it has translated to the field enough to warrant a higher selection. Margus Hunt is in that same class, and it's almost a guarantee that he'll be overdrafted. Overall, a quality group of ends and the even the lower rated guys hold decent potential because they have tools to work with.

Defensive Tackles

1. Star Lotulelei : UTAH
2. Sheldon Richardson : MISSOURI
3. Shariff Floyd : FLORIDA
4. Sylvester Williams : NORTH CAROLINA
5. Kawann Short : PURDUE
6. Johnathan Hankins : OHIO STATE
7. Jesse Williams : ALABAMA
8. Brandon Williams : MISSOURI SOUTHERN
9. John Jenkins : GEORGIA
10. Akeem Spence : ILLINOIS
11. Kwame Geathers : GEORGIA
12. Bennie Logan : LOUISIANA STATE
13. Jordan Hill : PENN STATE
14. Chris Jones : BOWLING GREEN
15. Cory Grissom : SOUTH FLORIDA

Analysis: An incredible number of these players (8) have the chance to break into the first round from the sounds of it and quite possibly ten in the first two rounds. If there's an "elite" prospect in this defensive draft class, Star would be that guy, and Richardson and Floyd may join him in the Top 10. I understand why some scouts are drooling over Floyd, and he's jumped to #3 in my rankings because he proved to be more consistent than others listed and his potential is rather high as well. John Jenkins is a mountain of a man and I want to like him more a prospect, but more times than not he's just average when placed on the football field. Chris Jones is an under-the-radar prospect, who was extremely productive throughout his entire collegiate career, and reminds me of Colts' defensive lineman Ricardo Mathews as a prospect. Overall, the strongest position in this draft at the top, and there will be plenty of variation when discussing the rankings of these prospects.

Outside Linebackers

1. Dion Jordan : OREGON
2. Jarvis Jones : GEORGIA
3. Arthur Brown : KANSAS STATE
4. Barkevious Mingo : LOUISIANA STATE
5. Khaseem Greene : RUTGERS
6. Jamie Collins : SOUTHERN MISSISSIPPI
7. Zaviar Gooden : MISSOURI
8. Chase Thomas : STANFORD
9. Gerald Hodges : PENN STATE
10. Sio Moore : CONNECTICUIT
11. Keith Pough : HOWARD
12. Ty Powell : HARDING
13. Kiko Alonso : OREGON
14. Sean Porter : TEXAS A&M
15. Trevardo Williams : CONNECTICUIT

Analysis: Dion Jordan is a unique prospect with his size, length and athleticism, and he's also scheme versatile (3-4 OLB, 4-3 SAM). Jarvis Jones had a terrific junior year at Georgia, but he doesn't take the number one spot due to the question marks with his spinal stenosis and after the combine he could drop further if it's determined that his career could very well be cut short due to his medical question marks. Barkevious Mingo has all the physical numbers to be a force at the next level, but he was an underwhelming player this season and he may be an athlete more than a football player. Chase Thomas had a strong year at Stanford, but the Senior Bowl proved he is stuck strictly as a 3-4 OLB and that'll hurt slightly come April. Sio Moore has been one of the brightest spots during the off-season games and his stock is well on the rise. Overall, a few guys have the potential to come in and wow us, and I see a bunch of steady starters in the league from this group.

Inside Linebackers

1. Kevin Minter : LOUISIANA STATE
2. Alec Ogletree : GEORGIA
3. Manti Te’o : NOTRE DAME
4. Vince Williams : FLORIDA STATE
5. AJ Klein : IOWA STATE
6. Nico Johnson : ALABAMA
7. Kevin Reddick : NORTH CAROLINA
8. Bruce Taylor : VIRGINIA TECH
9. Jon Bostic : FLORIDA
10. Michael Mauti : PENN STATE

Analysis: The inside backers are all about three guys, and they're led by Kevin Minter. Minter was the most impressive player on a talented Tigers' defense this year, and he possesses physicality along with sideline-to-sideline range. Alec Ogletree is an outstanding athlete, but questions on his toughness and ability to shed blocks knocks him off the top spot. AJ Klein is one of the more underrated prospects this year as an instinctive, physical, and experienced player inside. Kevin Reddick is tough to figure out; statistically you would expect to see a difference maker but far too often he's invisible on the field. Overall, a strong group at the top and steady the rest of the way.

Matthew Jones 02-09-2013 08:44 AM

What can you tell me about Bass?

princefielder28 02-09-2013 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Jones (Post 3270042)
What can you tell me about Bass?

A tenacious pass rusher with the size to play end in an even man front and the athleticism to kick back to outside backer in a 34 defense. He proved during Shrine Bowl week that a jump in competition from D-II to middle round D-I was no problem for him, as he was one of the more dominating players there. One of the more encouraging reports I got from Shrine week was David's ability to play effectively with his hands, and it's a significant fundamental that NFL teams won't need to construct with him.

FUNBUNCHER 02-09-2013 09:54 AM

If an OT gets his hands on Dion Jordan, I think he's easily neutralized in the NFL until he gets significantly stronger. In many ways he's still the guy who transitioned from playing WR to playing on the defensive side of the football.
No one can rely on a speed rush/counter to consistently beat OTs in the NFL. Jordan couldn't even do that in the Pac 12.

I still think he's a fantastic athlete, but I don't know how physically suited he is yet to start in the pros.

In some ways he reminds me of Aaron Maybin who is a very athletic player who has trouble when he locks up on a blocker.

rawdawg 02-09-2013 11:23 AM

Good list. I rank mine a little different. I lump all pass rushers together 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB, thus the list is 20 deep. And my OLB rankings are all 4-3 OLBs. My ILB rankings are 4-3 MLBs and 3-4 ILBs. Never really know what to do with 3-4 DEs, but there aren't a whole lot of guys strictly pigeonholed in that position like there has been the last few years.

PASS RUSHERS
1. Jarvis Jones- GEORGIA
2. Barkevious Mingo- LSU
3. Damontre Moore- TEXAS A&M
4. Bjoern Werner- FLORIDA ST
5. Alex Okafor- TEXAS
6. Sam Montgomery- LSU
7. Ezekiel Ansah- BYU
8. Datone Jones- UCLA
9. Dion Jordan- OREGON
10 Cornelius Carradine- FLORIDA ST
11 Brandon Jenkins- FLORIDA ST
12 Corey Lemonier- AUBURN
13 Margus Hunt- SMU
14 John Simon- OHIO ST
15 Michael Buchanan- ILLINOIS
16 William Gholston- MICHIGAN ST
17 Devin Taylor- SOUTH CAROLINA
18 Malliciah Goodman- CLEMSON
19 Stansly Maponga- TCU
20 Chase Thomas- STANFORD

DEFENSIVE TACKLES
1. Star Loutelelei- UTAH
2. Sheldon Richardson- MISSOURI
3. Sharrif Floyd- LSU
4. Kawaan Short- PURDUE
5. Jonathan Hankins- OHIO ST
6. Jesse Williams- ALABAMA
7. Sylvester Williams- NORTH CAROLINA
8. John Jenkins- GEORGIA
9. Bennie Logan- LSU
10 Jordan Hill- PENN ST
11 Brandon Williams- MISSOURI SOUTHERN ST

OUTSIDE LBs
1. Khaseem Greene- RUTGERS
2. Arthur Brown- KANSAS ST
3. Sean Porter- TEXAS A&M
4. Jelani Jenkins- FLORIDA
5. Zaviar Gooden- MISSOURI
6. Sio Moore- UCONN
7. Gerald Hodges- PENN ST
8. Devonte Holloman- SOUTH CAROLINA
9. Trevardo Williams- UCONN
10 Jamie Collins- SOUTHERN MISS

INSIDE LBs
1. Alec Ogletree- GEORGIA
2. Manti Te'o- NOTRE DAME
3. Kevin Minter- LSU
4. Kevin Reddick- NORTH CAROLINA
5. Jonathan Bostic- FLORIDA
6. Nico Johnson- ALABAMA
7. AJ Klein- IOWA STATE
8. Kiko Alonzo- OREGON
9. Vince Williams- FLORIDA ST
10 Michael Mauti- PENN ST

A lot of these rankings are subject to change depending on the combine. As I do put a lot of stock into speed and explosiveness, which can probably be determined by my rankings with the best athletes at each position at or near the top.

Really interested to see how Vince Williams runs. He's project in the 4.9 range by some, but if he gets anywhere near 4.78...he moves up maybe to #4. Admittedly, I don't know a ton about Jamie Collins, gotta do more homework on him.

rawdawg 02-09-2013 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princefielder28 (Post 3270036)
Malliciah Goodman is one of the more intriguing and puzzling prospects in this draft class. Physically he has all the necessities to be a very good player, but to this point it has translated to the field enough to warrant a higher selection. Margus Hunt is in that same class, and it's almost a guarantee that he'll be overdrafted. Overall, a quality group of ends and the even the lower rated guys hold decent potential because they have tools to work with.

Yeah, this class if full of pass rushers that "look the part". Mingo, Montgomery, Ansah, and Jordan are amazingly athletic. Goodman, Hunt, and even guys like Gholston, Taylor and Buchanon are very long-limbed guys who have the physical ability but never really put it together on the field against big time competition. As a Bears fan, I think they could take one of the latter group of guys (other than Hunt) maybe as late as the 5th and develop him with and behind Peppers.



Quote:

Originally Posted by princefielder28 (Post 3270036)
Analysis: The inside backers are all about three guys, and they're led by Kevin Minter. Minter was the most impressive player on a talented Tigers' defense this year, and he possesses physicality along with sideline-to-sideline range. Alec Ogletree is an outstanding athlete, but questions on his toughness and ability to shed blocks knocks him off the top spot. AJ Klein is one of the more underrated prospects this year as an instinctive, physical, and experienced player inside. Kevin Reddick is tough to figure out; statistically you would expect to see a difference maker but far too often he's invisible on the field. Overall, a strong group at the top and steady the rest of the way.

I thought Reddick really showed leadership in the SR Bowl. I don't know that he disappeared at UNC as much as he just didn't flash all over the screen constantly. But still 85 tackles (14th in the country, 1st in ACC), 18.5 for loss, and 6.5 sacks are solid numbers no matter how you slice it. I don't know that he's a day 1 starter at Mike, but he's a guy that could be ready by the middle of the season or at SLB until he learns the D better.

Klein is another guy who's 40 and drills I want to see at the combine. If he can show he can move around in zone coverage, he'll go way up on my board. Either way, someone is going to get a really good football player with him. Alonzo is the guy I don't know what to make of. I really wanted to see him in the senior bowl. Not really sure what type of NFL player he will be.

Either way, all good stuff, probably your best of all your lists, IMO. Well thought out and good reasoning for your rankings.

Babylon 02-09-2013 12:23 PM

I think Alec Ogeltree at ILB would be a problem. He looks like 4-3 OLB to me.

TACKLE 02-09-2013 12:39 PM

- I still can't figure out why people like Montgomery so much. Having a hard time coming up with things he does better than Tank and Okafor who are ranked below. Stiff straight-line athlete who doesn't bend particularly well. He's on the ground and is the last guy off the ball way too often. Don't see a lot of upside as a pass rusher in the pros. I dunno he's just one of those guys where I just don't see it. If someone can make a good case for him, I'm all ears (or eyes given that this is the internet).

- I know he tore his ACL but Quanterrus Smith from Western Kentucky needs to be in that top 15. I kinda thought he'd be a guy you'd be all over. Was the national leader in sacks before he hurt his knee. Playing at WKU people might assume he's "raw" but he's actually one of the best players I've watched this year at setting up his pass rush moves. Beat cyrus Kouandjio and Fluker cleanly on his way to a sack vs. Bama. I understand if he's a guy who maybe didn't make it on your radar but I highly recommend you check him out if you haven't already.

princefielder28 02-09-2013 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE (Post 3270145)
- I know he tore his ACL but Quanterrus Smith from Western Kentucky needs to be in that top 15. I kinda thought he'd be a guy you'd be all over. Was the national leader in sacks before he hurt his knee. Playing at WKU people might assume he's "raw" but he's actually one of the best players I've watched this year at setting up his pass rush moves. Beat cyrus Kouandjio and Fluker cleanly on his way to a sack vs. Bama. I understand if he's a guy who maybe didn't make it on your radar but I highly recommend you check him out if you haven't already.

Smith would be #12 (or maybe higher) if he hadn't torn his ACL...I know guys have been doing better in terms of coming back from major knee injuries, but there's still the uncertainty until he actually gets back on the field...still worth a 5th round pick though

rawdawg 02-09-2013 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE (Post 3270145)
- I still can't figure out why people like Montgomery so much. Having a hard time coming up with things he does better than Tank and Okafor who are ranked below. Stiff straight-line athlete who doesn't bend particularly well. He's on the ground and is the last guy off the ball way too often. Don't see a lot of upside as a pass rusher in the pros. I dunno he's just one of those guys where I just don't see it. If someone can make a good case for him, I'm all ears (or eyes given that this is the internet).

- I know he tore his ACL but Quanterrus Smith from Western Kentucky needs to be in that top 15. I kinda thought he'd be a guy you'd be all over. Was the national leader in sacks before he hurt his knee. Playing at WKU people might assume he's "raw" but he's actually one of the best players I've watched this year at setting up his pass rush moves. Beat cyrus Kouandjio and Fluker cleanly on his way to a sack vs. Bama. I understand if he's a guy who maybe didn't make it on your radar but I highly recommend you check him out if you haven't already.

Yeah, he's legit. Knee injury really hurt him on my list. Like I said I put a lot of stock into the combine/senior bowl stuff and he won't be able to do anything. Plus, he looks a little undersized to me. He looks to be sub-250, but doesn't look to have the lateral movement skills and change of direction to be an OLB. Looks like a 4-3 DE to me, but needs to put on 15lbs or so. That being said, he looks pretty lean and like he could put on the weight.

J-Mike88 02-09-2013 01:46 PM

Here Q is versus Alabama.

When did he tear his ACL, what week? Did someone roll into it or did it just got when he planted?

rawdawg 02-09-2013 05:36 PM

Never saw the injury, but he hurt it in the game before last. November 19th, I believe. So, assuming he's more Rashard Mendenhall than Adrian Peterson, he could be in danger of being IR'd as a rookie.

Monomach 02-09-2013 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon (Post 3270141)
I think Alec Ogeltree at ILB would be a problem. He looks like 4-3 OLB to me.

This. I just see him playing 4-3 WLB, and that's about it.

rawdawg 02-09-2013 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach (Post 3270349)
This. I just see him playing 4-3 WLB, and that's about it.

How is it that a guy that played 3-4 ILB in the SEC....and played it well enough to be rated one of the top 20 prospects in this draft....is only a 4-3 WLB? That makes no sense to me. I'm pretty sure he can successfully play all three 4-3 LB positions and both inside positions in the 3-4. He basically played some 4-3 MLB when Georgia went to the 4-man front.

TACKLE 02-09-2013 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rawdawg (Post 3270380)
How is it that a guy that played 3-4 ILB in the SEC....and played it well enough to be rated one of the top 20 prospects in this draft....is only a 4-3 WLB? That makes no sense to me. I'm pretty sure he can successfully play all three 4-3 LB positions and both inside positions in the 3-4. He basically played some 4-3 MLB when Georgia went to the 4-man front.

He was able to make plays but struggled to actually play position well. The plays he did make playing inside linebacker were usually not inside. He really struggles to defeat blocks and it's not because he doesn't use his hands well, it's because he doesn't use them at all. He keeps them down by his side and lets O-Lineman get into his body way too often. He doesn't take a read step kind of just hops/drifts forward and gets lost in traffic all the time. Maybe you can blame his coaches or his inexperience but you can tell that he's not really reading the cues (inside 3 OL, FB...slightly different behind an odd front) and just kind of reacts to flow. The last two points are obviously connected.

And this is coming from someone who thinks Ogletree can be a star and an elite LB in the league if he's put right role, but I don't see anything about his game translates well to the inside. He's a run-and-chase LB all day. Part of his value is that with his length and cover skills he can match up and run with TE's and slot WR's which will allow teams not to have to bring an extra DB on the field. By trapping him inside, his best assets are kind of being wasted.

nepg 02-09-2013 10:35 PM

Ogletree is still raw and growing. He doesn't do those linebacker things because he's new to the position. He can be projected to any linebacker spot. His potential is off the charts.

rawdawg 02-10-2013 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE (Post 3270396)
He was able to make plays but struggled to actually play position well. The plays he did make playing inside linebacker were usually not inside. He really struggles to defeat blocks and it's not because he doesn't use his hands well, it's because he doesn't use them at all. He keeps them down by his side and lets O-Lineman get into his body way too often. He doesn't take a read step kind of just hops/drifts forward and gets lost in traffic all the time. Maybe you can blame his coaches or his inexperience but you can tell that he's not really reading the cues (inside 3 OL, FB...slightly different behind an odd front) and just kind of reacts to flow. The last two points are obviously connected.

And this is coming from someone who thinks Ogletree can be a star and an elite LB in the league if he's put right role, but I don't see anything about his game translates well to the inside. He's a run-and-chase LB all day. Part of his value is that with his length and cover skills he can match up and run with TE's and slot WR's which will allow teams not to have to bring an extra DB on the field. By trapping him inside, his best assets are kind of being wasted.

His best assets are being wasted? Theres still RBs that need covered out of the backfield. Theres zone coverage especially cover 2 where he will be an asset in t
he middle. Brian Urlacher and Ray Lewis had the same abilities coming out and neither of them was wasted inside. Now u can say both are/were better at the POA but this also an NFL now that features a lot of zone run concepts to allow MLBs to use their speed in the tackle box.

But my original point was more that he csn play ant LB position and definitely more than the weak side....which u obviously agree with.

SunTzu_22 02-10-2013 05:07 PM

Great stuff PF. I wonder if you could elaborate on what is you see in Werner that puts him at the top of your DE ranking? Just watched a good chunk of his tape from this season, and Im not overly impressed tbh. Granted, he does have a great first step, turns the corner pretty well, and has good closing speed. On the other hand I see him give up on a ton of plays, which really rubs me the wrong way. Doesnt seem like he sheds blocks all that well if the lineman wins the initial battle, and his ability to play the run leaves a lot to be desired in a lot of situations. Overall hes a real headscratcher to me.
Tbh before Tank Carradine went down this year, im not even sure I would consider Werner the best DE on his own team.

princefielder28 02-10-2013 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunTzu_22 (Post 3270857)
Great stuff PF. I wonder if you could elaborate on what is you see in Werner that puts him at the top of your DE ranking? Just watched a good chunk of his tape from this season, and Im not overly impressed tbh. Granted, he does have a great first step, turns the corner pretty well, and has good closing speed. On the other hand I see him give up on a ton of plays, which really rubs me the wrong way. Doesnt seem like he sheds blocks all that well if the lineman wins the initial battle, and his ability to play the run leaves a lot to be desired in a lot of situations. Overall hes a real headscratcher to me.
Tbh before Tank Carradine went down this year, im not even sure I would consider Werner the best DE on his own team.

I wouldn't characterize Werner as a player who gives up on a ton of plays, but I can guarantee there had to be a degree of frustration for him with the amount of attention he received with additional blocking to neutralize him. That, in large part, contributed to the breakout of Carradine this past season, and what is perceived as a dip in Werner's impact.

Caulibflower 02-10-2013 08:19 PM

Credit to Fieldgulls for making me notice, but Phillip Steward of Houston looks like the real deal at WLB. Estimated Measurables: 6' 230, 4.60. 2012 Stats: 128 tackles, 19 TFL, 11 sacks, 2 INT, 5 FF. (#42 in the video)


TACKLE 02-10-2013 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caulibflower (Post 3270968)
Credit to Fieldgulls for making me notice, but Phillip Steward of Houston looks like the real deal at WLB. Estimated Measurables: 6' 230, 4.60. 2012 Stats: 128 tackles, 19 TFL, 11 sacks, 2 INT, 5 FF. (#42 in the video)


It only took me a minute into this video to realize that this guy was a deviant. He's reminiscent of your boy from California Berkley from last year. He's listed as a 4.60 but he plays faster than that. He can fly. I want to see more.

Caulibflower 02-11-2013 10:26 PM

Reminds me of Mychal Kendricks, too.


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