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-   -   Walter Stewart, DE, Cincinnati (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55689)

Duffman57 02-19-2013 06:25 PM

Walter Stewart, DE, Cincinnati
 
I completely forgot about this guy until recently someone on another forum posted a thread about him...

I really liked this kid before his injury (fractured his C1 vertebra, which then lead to the finding of a birth defect where he was missing the posterior arch in his C1 vertebra), almost as much as to call him a boarderline 1st round pick. He's also one of the best Character guys and leaders in the draft, so he's definitely a guy who i'll be rooting for regardless of where he goes.

With his injury he's more of a late round player, but his upside is massive and its really dependent on finding a team doctor that will be fine with him playing with that missing posterior arch (BIG medical controversy here, as many doctors say its a career ending injury, and others say that there's probably hundreds of players who have this that are playing with it right now because of its an injury that is barely ever found when people have it, since it takes an x-ray of the spine to find) and a team thats willing to give him a chance.

Here's his crazy story (its insane his mother was 12 when she gave birth to him......:confuse: ) and a video of him...

http://www.nfl.com/combine/story/0ap...outing-combine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9QcWcCPDrI

princefielder28 02-19-2013 07:14 PM

He's one player I need to go back and watch because I had forgotten about him due to the injury. Mayock said he could potentially be a Top 10 pick. If not for the injury I'd agree, but there's the physical question marks with him. He's undoubtedly a guy to keep an eye on.

Caulibflower 02-19-2013 07:26 PM

I've said before that I think his film looks better to me than Damontre Moore. I haven't watched a whole lot of either, but that's my first impression. I'm no doctor, but spine injuries scare me. You're really got to have a strong back to play football. Since there seem to be a number of doctors who have already advised him to retire, I'm not sure where I stand on this. Frankly, I guess if I believed his injury was an isolated thing and that his condition wasn't the direct cause of it, he's a solid second round pick to me, maybe even a first. If I believed he was healthy and not at risk to be paralyzed by routine play, he has a lot of value in my mind. But if that question remains, he's off my board. I just wouldn't feel right taking a flier on a guy and playing him until he breaks, even if that's all he wanted to do.

I also think injuries might play a bigger role in how I personally evaluate some players than other draftniks do. For example, I've always downgraded RGIII because of his injuries, from before the draft in my scouting reports to during the season when I would be posting that I didn't think he'd make it to the end in one piece. He was fantastic while he was in, but there are some big question marks now. So similarly with Stewart, I don't want a "maybe" from a doctor. If I'm going to draft him, I want a doctor to convince me fully that he should be able to play football, and if that's the case, I'd probably take him right where his talent dictates, which is pretty high. If, in talking to doctors I find that his risk is significantly higher due to his condition, I don't think I'd take him at all.

Duffman57 02-19-2013 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caulibflower (Post 3277035)
I've said before that I think his film looks better to me than Damontre Moore. I haven't watched a whole lot of either, but that's my first impression. I'm no doctor, but spine injuries scare me. You're really got to have a strong back to play football. Since there seem to be a number of doctors who have already advised him to retire, I'm not sure where I stand on this. Frankly, I guess if I believed his injury was an isolated thing and that his condition wasn't the direct cause of it, he's a solid second round pick to me, maybe even a first. If I believed he was healthy and not at risk to be paralyzed by routine play, he has a lot of value in my mind. But if that question remains, he's off my board. I just wouldn't feel right taking a flier on a guy and playing him until he breaks, even if that's all he wanted to do.

I also think injuries might play a bigger role in how I personally evaluate some players than other draftniks do. For example, I've always downgraded RGIII because of his injuries, from before the draft in my scouting reports to during the season when I would be posting that I didn't think he'd make it to the end in one piece. He was fantastic while he was in, but there are some big question marks now. So similarly with Stewart, I don't want a "maybe" from a doctor. If I'm going to draft him, I want a doctor to convince me fully that he should be able to play football, and if that's the case, I'd probably take him right where his talent dictates, which is pretty high. If, in talking to doctors I find that his risk is significantly higher due to his condition, I don't think I'd take him at all.

I'm in agreeance with that, but i think because of the fact that some doctors think that his career is over lowers the number of teams that want him, and that lowers his value significantly.

On the flip side, this is reportedly an issue that doctors are very high and low on. And you cant really tell if the injury was caused by this, or it happened and he happened to have this condition. I did a little research on this, and looked up a case study, and when i was looking at it, something said that over 75% cases of this injury go undiagnosed, and most of these are discovered on accident. The case study also said, between the severities of this injury, there's somewhere between 3% to 5.5% of people have this trait, with 90% of the people that have this trait having a lower grade problem that wont show any side effects and shouldn't restrict any movement or activities.

The problem with this injury is that only the teams and their doctors will actually get all the info and be able to make a fair assessment of the injury. Especially when the levels of this defect has problems that go from almost no effect, to having to wear a neck brace. By the way here's the quotes from the case study and the link to the case study...

Quote:

Currarino et al [2] classified this anomaly into five types, depending on the extent of absence of posterior arch and presence of posterior tubercle (Table 1). Type A anomaly is seen over the 90% of all posterior arch defects and present in 3% to 4% of individuals [2]. In their study, they estimated the Type B-E anomalies as 0.69% of all population. Currarino et al [2] also divided the posterior arch defects of atlas into five clinical groups: Group I - asymptomatic, their anomaly is found incidentally; Group II - neck pain or/and stiffness after trauma to neck or head; Group III - sudden neurological symptoms after neck or head trauma; Group IV - various neurological symptoms forsome time before the diagnosis of the anomaly; Group V - chronic symptoms referable to the neck......

It is important to determine the type of the defect on the posterior arch of atlas to understand the clinical significance and to prevent further neurological complication. Type A and B do not cause neurological symptoms but Type C-D are likely to cause transient quadriparesis after minor trauma even inappropriate positioning of neck and head.
http://www.neuroanatomy.org/2007/072_074.pdf

This issue is going to be HIGHLY subjective from team to team, doctor to doctor. As you can see, and as i stated, doctors opinions of this range from, the condition ends your career, and it wont be a problem and plenty of people play with this and it goes unnoticed, since there was no reason for them to discover it.

Duffman57 02-19-2013 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princefielder28 (Post 3277025)
He's one player I need to go back and watch because I had forgotten about him due to the injury. Mayock said he could potentially be a Top 10 pick. If not for the injury I'd agree, but there's the physical question marks with him. He's undoubtedly a guy to keep an eye on.

I dont think i would've ever called him a top 10 pick (Mayock likely just adding steam to the kid for a story, get him a little recognition, and to help him out, which i'm fine with), but i would say he's right boarderline 1st/2nd rounder pre-injury, in the group with Okafor, Montgomery, Carradine (post injury). Its really going to depend on a thorough medical search for teams to put a draft grade on him...

FUNBUNCHER 02-20-2013 01:35 AM

Ew. His mom was raped when she conceived him.
Hope dude has a future in the NFL.

stlouisfan37 02-20-2013 11:20 AM

I hadn't heard of this kid. I'm pulling for him to land somewhere. What a great story:-)

Ozzy 02-20-2013 06:19 PM

Walter Stewart has always shown potential, but never really put it all together in college, and that injury this season really hurt him.

Always remember him as a freshman on Cincinnati, think he was a redshirt freshman. He was such an athletic young pass rusher, played linebacker and just recently moved to defensive end. Not sure he can hold up against the run as a defensive end, but is an interesting player as a 4/3 OLB potentially. Real athletic but never quite got to that elite level. Possible he could have it he never got injured.

I would say anywhere from 3rd-6th round for him I would say depending on his health and workouts.

gpngc 02-20-2013 06:57 PM

Just watched Pitt '12 and WVU '11.

Good but unpolished. Consistently finds a way to make plays - he must have had like 4 sacks, 2 or 3 FF, a PD, and then I saw the TD against UCONN. I'd love to see what his test results are. He needs to work on his technique and rip/swim at the very least but he's got the tools be a good pass rusher.

Just a knack for making plays. It's not always pretty but you can't argue with consistent results. What are his measurables?

Duffman57 02-20-2013 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozzy (Post 3277935)
Walter Stewart has always shown potential, but never really put it all together in college, and that injury this season really hurt him.

Always remember him as a freshman on Cincinnati, think he was a redshirt freshman. He was such an athletic young pass rusher, played linebacker and just recently moved to defensive end. Not sure he can hold up against the run as a defensive end, but is an interesting player as a 4/3 OLB potentially. Real athletic but never quite got to that elite level. Possible he could have it he never got injured.

I would say anywhere from 3rd-6th round for him I would say depending on his health and workouts.

He's as true of a 3-4 OLB as they come. Great burst, great a speed off the edge, uses hands well rushing, is alright in coverage/comfortable in space, and solid setting the edge.

I just talked to a PT and Athletic Trainier (I'm an intern at an athletic training office, where PT's routinely work, since thats what i want to do (ATC)), about his condition and i got two different answers that are interesting, but both agreed that the defficiency wasn't the issue at all, the problem lies in the fracture. The PT said that the entire problem lies in WHERE the fracture occurred. If the fracture is in the anterior portion of the atlas (or the anterior arch) there's a huge issue and he would suggest he doesn't play again, as thats where the head connects to the spine (and thats KINDA important), but if the fracture occurred on the posterior or transverse process than he should be alright and fine to play.

CrossOfDeath 02-22-2013 01:47 PM

I have watched every one of his games of his career and he is a legit Top 40 talent for sure. I think Mike Mayock went overboard with the Top 10 suggestion, but I can at least see it. He is extremely athletic for a pass rusher but lacks powerful hands and a variety of moves. Good coaching is going get a lot more out of him if he is cleared to play.

I wrestled with a kid in high school who went on to Heidelberg to wrestle and while there had a neck issue where they found he was also born without a posterior arch and he wrestled fine for the next 3 years. I don't know if they have the exact same issue but if they do I'd say Stewart would be fine and it would take a freak collision to cause anything serious.

Duffman57 02-22-2013 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrossOfDeath (Post 3279373)
I have watched every one of his games of his career and he is a legit Top 40 talent for sure. I think Mike Mayock went overboard with the Top 10 suggestion, but I can at least see it. He is extremely athletic for a pass rusher but lacks powerful hands and a variety of moves. Good coaching is going get a lot more out of him if he is cleared to play.

I wrestled with a kid in high school who went on to Heidelberg to wrestle and while there had a neck issue where they found he was also born without a posterior arch and he wrestled fine for the next 3 years. I don't know if they have the exact same issue but if they do I'd say Stewart would be fine and it would take a freak collision to cause anything serious.

They do have the same posterior arch issue, the problem lies within where the fracture occurred. If it happened on the anterior arch, he's as good as done.

thebow305 02-22-2013 03:23 PM

Who the heck is this guy and where did he come from? All of a sudden Mayock thinks he's a top 10 pick? Are you kidding me!? Never even heard of the guy until a week ago.

Lucky to sniff Day 2 IMO.

princefielder28 02-22-2013 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebow305 (Post 3279461)
Who the heck is this guy and where did he come from? All of a sudden Mayock thinks he's a top 10 pick? Are you kidding me!? Never even heard of the guy until a week ago.

Lucky to sniff Day 2 IMO.

He got hurt, and thus didn't receive the amount of attention he might've had he stayed healthy and continued to produce at the rate he was going.

Grizzlegom 02-22-2013 03:28 PM

His medical is (obviously) the most important thing for him. I really liked him before the injury but from everything I'm seeing, 50% of the doctors he sees are telling him he can't play anymore but 50% are saying he can. That's the kind of red flag that will make him be lucky to get drafted.

Duffman57 02-22-2013 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebow305 (Post 3279461)
Who the heck is this guy and where did he come from? All of a sudden Mayock thinks he's a top 10 pick? Are you kidding me!? Never even heard of the guy until a week ago.

Lucky to sniff Day 2 IMO.

He was one of those guys that not many people heard of last year, but all the scouts knew who he was (or at least, a lot of former scouts did, which means scouts probably did), and were really high on him. Mayock i'm guessing is just trying to add steam to the engine for this guy, as he wasn't really anywhere close to that, but early 2nd, and maybe late first wasn't out of the question at all. A couple people talked about him at the end of the last draft cycle, but because he played at cincy he got covered up.


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