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-   -   Pre Combine Top 32 (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55695)

AntoinCD 02-20-2013 06:23 AM

Pre Combine Top 32
 
1. Sheldon Richardson, DT Missouri
2. Chance Warmack, OG Alabama
3. Luke Joeckel, OT Texas A&M
4. Star Lotulelei, DT Utah
5. Eric Fisher, OT Central Michigan
6. Jonathan Cooper, OG UNC
7. Bjoern Werner, DE FSU
8. Dion Jordan, LB Oregon
9. Dee Milliner, CB Alabama
10. Barkevious Mingo, DE LSU
11. Cordarrelle Patterson, WR Tennessee
12. Lane Johnson, OT Oklahoma
13. Sharrif Floyd, DT Florida
14. Ezekiel Ansah, DE BYU
15. Kenny Vaccaro, S Texas
16. Keenan Allen, WR Cal
17. DeAndre Hopkins, WR Clemson
18. Geno Smith, QB WVU
19. Kevin Minter, LB LSU
20. Damontre Moore, DE Texas A&M
21. Manti Te'o, LB Notre Dame
22. Tavon Austin, WR WVU
23. Tank Carradine, DE FSU
24. DJ Fluker, OT Alabama
25. Larry Warford, OG Kentucky
26. Jonathan Cyprien, S FIU
27. Eddie Lacy, RB Alabama
28. Johnthan Banks, CB Mississippi State
29. Desmond Trufant, CB Washington
30. Datone Jones, DE UCLA
31. Jarvis Jones, LB Georgia
32. Robert Woods, WR USC

AcheTen (Thumper) 02-20-2013 07:06 AM

Why is Jarvis Jones so low?

princefielder28 02-20-2013 07:29 AM

I posted my Top 32 about a week ago, and we share some similarities. I'm high on Patterson, Mingo or Carradine like you are, but I like the inclusions of Minter, Cyprien and Lacy.

AntoinCD 02-20-2013 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AcheTen (Post 3277308)
Why is Jarvis Jones so low?

I've been on the Jarvis Jones is overrated bandwagon for quite a while. Sure he has very good production but a lot of his sacks have come against guys who will counsellors and car sales men in the next few years, not NFL offensive linemen.

I don't think he is a very fluid athlete and he doesn't possess many pass rush moves. He can win off the snap but if he gets blocked he stays blocked. He does make plays in pursuit but a lot of that is him being caught out of position. All this added in with his injury concerns and I just don't see this top, can't miss prospect that others do

bitonti 02-20-2013 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD (Post 3277328)
I've been on the Jarvis Jones is overrated bandwagon for quite a while. Sure he has very good production but a lot of his sacks have come against guys who will counsellors and car sales men in the next few years, not NFL offensive linemen.

just looking at the 2nd half of the season, Jones had 3 sacks against Florida (Xavier Nixon), and 2 sacks against Alabama (Fluker and Kouandjo, both possible 1st rd players). that's premium opposition.

Also 2 sacks against Auburn (Greg Robinson, rs fr who was ranked in top 100 prospects in the nation as a prep) and 2 sacks against Nebraska (Jer. Sirles, moving from RT to LT). less premium but Nebraska and Auburn always put OL in the league.

If we want to discount this player for medical reasons, that's understandable. But his production has been top notch. If he stays another year that's another 8-10 sacks and puts him at 34-36 career... which is about 3rd or 4th all time.

AcheTen (Thumper) 02-20-2013 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD (Post 3277328)
I've been on the Jarvis Jones is overrated bandwagon for quite a while. Sure he has very good production but a lot of his sacks have come against guys who will counsellors and car sales men in the next few years, not NFL offensive linemen.

But that's the case with everyone who puts up sack numbers in college.

The fact that most of DeMarcus Ware's 27.5 college sacks at Troy University came against OTs that never went on to sniff an NFL field in their lives didn't invalidate Ware's production. Of course, Ware was an athletic marvel at the combine, and the combination of good college production and elite athleticism made him a slam-dunk first round pass rusher prospect.

As long as Jarvis Jones puts up respectable combine numbers (good 40, good short shuttle, 35"+ vertical), I don't see why he can't be int he same class of prospect as DeMarcus Ware and Von Miller based on the combination of production and athleticism.

Of course, if he bombs the Combine, then you'll have to call into question his production, but he could still be a quality NFL player, because you don't put up 28 sacks and 45.5 TFL in your college career by being a stiff.



Quote:

I don't think he is a very fluid athlete and he doesn't possess many pass rush moves. He can win off the snap but if he gets blocked he stays blocked. He does make plays in pursuit but a lot of that is him being caught out of position. All this added in with his injury concerns and I just don't see this top, can't miss prospect that others do
The medical stuff is definitely a concern. But again, regarding the pass rush moves: you don't put up production like that (28 sacks, 45.5 TFL) without having something exceptional.

AntoinCD 02-20-2013 09:54 AM

I don't dislike Jones and think he can become a very good player (health permitting). I just don't see him as a Von Miller-esque prospect that a lot of people do.

I think he will struggle to be a full time pass rusher at the next level. He could turn into a very good blitzer ala Adalius Thomas, but I don't see a consistent pass rusher who needs to be accounted for pre snap every snap.

If he goes to a 34 where the defensive coordinator varies who rushes then he can have some success, but if he's asked to be Demarcus Ware then he will not live up o expectations IMO, and if he's asked to be a LB like Von Miller then his weaknesses will be exploited

Big Bird 02-20-2013 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD (Post 3277307)
1. Sheldon Richardson, DT Missouri
2. Chance Warmack, OT Alabama
3. Luke Joeckel, OT Texas A&M
4. Star Lotulelei, DT Utah
5. Eric Fisher, OT Central Michigan

I think I love you...

AntoinCD 02-20-2013 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Bird (Post 3277392)
I think I love you...

Ha, you just made me realise I had a typo and had Warmack down as an OT

killxswitch 02-20-2013 11:43 AM

What do you dislike about Damontre Moore's game? 20th seems low but I don't necessarily disagree. I am really starting to like Carradine as a prospect so I agree with you ranking him so high.

AntoinCD 02-20-2013 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killxswitch (Post 3277458)
What do you dislike about Damontre Moore's game? 20th seems low but I don't necessarily disagree. I am really starting to like Carradine as a prospect so I agree with you ranking him so high.

The thing I see about Moore is he is good in a lot of facets of the game but I don't see a game changer in any one area. He could be a really good complimentary rusher who gets 7-9 sacks a year and occassionally double digits but I just don't see a premier pass rusher.

I absolutely love Tank. If he had stayed healthy he may have been my number 1 DE

BallerT1215 02-20-2013 01:49 PM

IMO, you will realize your error and at some point have Rhodes over Banks/Trufant in the near future.


Also..as mentioned above, Jarvis Jones at #31 is just blasphemy.

Otherwise, nice rankings.

JoeJoeBrown 02-20-2013 01:56 PM

Hankins needs to be on your list somewhere.

AntoinCD 02-20-2013 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BallerT1215 (Post 3277665)
IMO, you will realize your error and at some point have Rhodes over Banks/Trufant in the near future.


Also..as mentioned above, Jarvis Jones at #31 is just blasphemy.

Otherwise, nice rankings.

I really like Rhodes but I question his ability to turn and run with quicker WRs. How he runs this week could go a long way to helping or hurting his stock.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown (Post 3277673)
Hankins needs to be on your list somewhere.

Hankins needs to play with some more intensity and then we'll talk

Babylon 02-20-2013 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown (Post 3277673)
Hankins needs to be on your list somewhere.

In most drafts you have a top 15 or so that are fairly unanimous then about 30 guys who could go anywhere after that. I would think Hankins is in that group. I wouldn't be too upset to see him in Seattle.

Big Bird 02-20-2013 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD (Post 3277422)
Ha, you just made me realise I had a typo and had Warmack down as an OT

I figured it was just a typo, so I didn't say anything.

I really didn't mind your 6th and 7th ranked players either. I like the majority of it as well, but you nailed the top 5 for me.

Grizzlegom 02-20-2013 03:47 PM

I approve of the Tank Carradine love going on in this thread and echo the sentiments that if he'd stayed healthy, he'd probably be the undisputed #1 DE in this class.

JoeJoeBrown 02-20-2013 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD (Post 3277678)
I really like Rhodes but I question his ability to turn and run with quicker WRs. How he runs this week could go a long way to helping or hurting his stock.



Hankins needs to play with some more intensity and then we'll talk

Your sample size is how many games? This sounds like parrotting.

AntoinCD 02-21-2013 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown (Post 3277923)
Your sample size is how many games? This sounds like parrotting.

I really don't get this, I don't have a guy in the top 32 and it's like I'm saying he sucks. I like Rhodes. He is big and physical and when he gets his hands on you it's over, but he has a weakness in his game. DeAndre Hopkins beat him a few times and he got beat deep against Miami. I seen Rhodes get beaten inside and run away from against USF but the ball wasn't thrown that way, it doesn't mean he wasn't beaten.

Rankings are a projection. It's not like FSU's schedule was chock full of NFL caliber WRs. If Rhodes is put on an island with a guy like Desean Jackson or has to cover shiftier guys or anyone who goes in motion to get away from the jam then he may struggle.

JoeJoeBrown 02-21-2013 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD (Post 3278291)
I really don't get this, I don't have a guy in the top 32 and it's like I'm saying he sucks. I like Rhodes. He is big and physical and when he gets his hands on you it's over, but he has a weakness in his game. DeAndre Hopkins beat him a few times and he got beat deep against Miami. I seen Rhodes get beaten inside and run away from against USF but the ball wasn't thrown that way, it doesn't mean he wasn't beaten.

Rankings are a projection. It's not like FSU's schedule was chock full of NFL caliber WRs. If Rhodes is put on an island with a guy like Desean Jackson or has to cover shiftier guys or anyone who goes in motion to get away from the jam then he may struggle.

Your rankings are fine. I was talking about Jonathan Hankins the DT from OSU.
I don't really care if he's on your list, but the effort side of things is not where he's lacking. I think this exchange demonstrated just how limited message board conversations can be :)

AntoinCD 02-21-2013 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown (Post 3278297)
Your rankings are fine. I was talking about Jonathan Hankins the DT from OSU.
I don't really care if he's on your list, but the effort side of things is not where he's lacking. I think this exchange demonstrated just how limited message board conversations can be :)

My apologies whatever way I read that I thought you were talking about Rhodes. Hankins is a bit of an enigma to me. He is a massive guy who has really good feet and can move, however he doesn't jolt offensive linemen with his hands. I don't question his work ethic I question his fire and nastiness on the field. I also think the depth of the defensive tackle class will hurt some of these guys on the fringes

JoeJoeBrown 02-21-2013 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD (Post 3278313)
My apologies whatever way I read that I thought you were talking about Rhodes. Hankins is a bit of an enigma to me. He is a massive guy who has really good feet and can move, however he doesn't jolt offensive linemen with his hands. I don't question his work ethic I question his fire and nastiness on the field. I also think the depth of the defensive tackle class will hurt some of these guys on the fringes

I agree with all of this. I already repped you though :)

killxswitch 02-21-2013 09:48 AM

I question all OSU prospects because bleh.

Iamcanadian 02-21-2013 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon (Post 3277713)
In most drafts you have a top 15 or so that are fairly unanimous then about 30 guys who could go anywhere after that. I would think Hankins is in that group. I wouldn't be too upset to see him in Seattle.

I'm hearing that GM's are saying the 20th pick in this year's draft is equal to the guys going top 5, that there is very little separating the top 25 in this year's rankings which is why I feel there will be fewer trades this year.

JoeJoeBrown 02-21-2013 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killxswitch (Post 3278355)
I question all OSU prospects because bleh.

Because you are a moron. :)


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