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-   -   Tavon Austin vs DeSean Jackson (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55831)

Witten4HOF 03-02-2013 05:03 PM

Tavon Austin vs DeSean Jackson
 
If you look at their size / measurables coming out of the combine they are almost identical prospects. Jackson measured taller at 5'9 3/4 to Austin's 5'8 but Tavon had more weighed 5 more lbs the DeSean. Austin was slightly better in the 40 besting Jackson by a hundredth of a second and had the edge in the 20 yard short shuttle 4.01 to 4.19. Jackson's three cone drill edged Austin by .13 seconds and was able to best Austin by 2 1/2 inches in the vert while their broad jumps are identicle.

Looking at their Career stats as a whole Jackson put together 2423 yards receiving 22 TDs, 633 punt return yards 6 TDs, 38 kick return yards, and 199 yards rushing 1 TD over a three year career. Compare that to Austin's 3413 yards receiving 29 tds, 433 punt return yards 1 TD, 2407 kick return yards 4 TDs, 1031 rushing yards and 6 TDS.

Jackson declared a year early and had he returned for his senior year the receiving yards would be very similar to Tavon. Both showed to be dynamic special teams players, Tavon was primarily used on kick returns while DeSean used his talents as a punt returner. Austin clearly has the edge as a rusher beig involved in a good about of designed runs out of the spread offense.

Tavon is being touted as a 'special' luxary player that will be designated in the slot roll at the next level. Jackson has similar skills but has succeeded in the league challenging starting corners outside of the numbers. Why can't Austin do the same? If anything he has shown the willingness and extra dimension of crossing the middle of the field while Jackson has done most of his damage on verticals and passes outside the hash. Personally I think Tavon has I higher ceiling than DeSean who was once hyped by Jerry Rice as the next great receiver and shouldn't be locked into a limited slot role.

Thoughts ?

K Train 03-02-2013 05:10 PM

extremely similar players, even watching highlights of austin you can confuse him with desean jackson in a yellow jersey playing for cal.

One interesting thing is the 16 reps he threw up on the bench (i think he was credited with 14) but thats some power for such a little guy. I dont know what Jackson can throw up but im assuming its more like 2 since his max was like 250 while at cal...i couldnt find any official reps anywhere for jackson, not that it really matters. Just saying that Austin is freakishly strong which will only help him because a guy jacksons size making it in the NFL is hardly the norm

Armchair Scout 03-02-2013 06:06 PM

Austin's ceiling is certainly higher than Jackson's. Austin is unproven as a sideline receiver, but he certainly looks like he could develop into an outside receiver of Jackson's caliber. Austin has better hands than Jackson and doesn't body catch as much, and might be an even more dangerous as a runner. There is no guarantee that Austin will become better than Jackson, but I do think he is a better prospect than Jackson was.

norcalgsr 03-02-2013 06:14 PM

Jackson made plays downfield. Austin is more of a slot/gadget player. Austin is also a more natural ball carrier than Jackson. Jackson is just an end-around guy.

TY Hilton is more like DeSean Jackson. Austin is a bit overrated.

K Train 03-02-2013 06:44 PM

hes definitely better than djax was, i was sure hawkins was gonna be the better pro though, so wtf do i know

Witten4HOF 03-02-2013 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norcalgsr (Post 3289494)
Jackson made plays downfield. Austin is more of a slot/gadget player. Austin is also a more natural ball carrier than Jackson. Jackson is just an end-around guy.

TY Hilton is more like DeSean Jackson. Austin is a bit overrated.

Austin is tailer made to take advantage of a two way release in the slot, he is so smooth with his acceleration that it is easy to create a cushion in underneath coverage when the defender is on skates guessing which way the release is coming. That being said that doesn't neccisarily mean he can't be just as effective from the outside. His biggest challenge would be handling press coverage and his most important number at the combine was the bench IMO. For him to put 14 reps was huge, to me that shows that he has the upper body strength to hand fight and get himself off the line cleanly. After that everything else is easy, he has the speed to burn deep and crispness in and out of breaks to loose defenders in space. The only thing he can't do for you is win in jump ball situations. He is willing to cut across the field and make the tough catch ( not that you want that to be a staple) and break down pursuit with the ball in his hands.

J-Mike88 03-02-2013 10:13 PM

Austin is a much better runner with the ball.
The route-running, receiving ability, that's yet to be determined how that translates in the NFL.
But he's a better runner for sure.

He reminds me of a mold of Desean Jackson/Pat White/Noel Divine/Steve Slaton/Percy Harvin... something like that.

TheFinisher 03-03-2013 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witten4HOF (Post 3289519)
Austin is tailer made to take advantage of a two way release in the slot, he is so smooth with his acceleration that it is easy to create a cushion in underneath coverage when the defender is on skates guessing which way the release is coming. That being said that doesn't neccisarily mean he can't be just as effective from the outside. His biggest challenge would be handling press coverage and his most important number at the combine was the bench IMO. For him to put 14 reps was huge, to me that shows that he has the upper body strength to hand fight and get himself off the line cleanly. After that everything else is easy, he has the speed to burn deep and crispness in and out of breaks to loose defenders in space. The only thing he can't do for you is win in jump ball situations. He is willing to cut across the field and make the tough catch ( not that you want that to be a staple) and break down pursuit with the ball in his hands.

He is tailor made for the slot, but the worst thing a team can do is try to make him an outside receiver because he's not that and it'll waste his skillset. The only reason I can see a team trying to do that is due to pressure of "drafting a slot-only receiver in the 1st Round" but I don't get it because no one will care that he's a slot only guy if he's producing at a high level and giving defenses headaches.

norcalgsr 03-03-2013 08:31 AM

You want a slot guy, draft Chad Bumphis. Tell Austin to put on 10-15 lbs and turn him into a RB.

Monomach 03-03-2013 08:54 AM

Sooooooo...

-69" tall, 174 lbs
-4.34 dash
-14 bench reps
-32" vertical
-120" broad
-9.18" hands
-72 rushes for 643 yards (8.9 avg) and 3 TDs
-114 receptions for 1289 yards (11.3 avg) and 12 TDs

-Played with possible Top 10 pick QB

-Elite game speed, shifty runner, excellent with the ball in space.

-Supposedly big enough to be an all-purpose weapon catching screen passes/slot
receiving and change-of-pace running.

-First round grade

BUT...

-68" tall, 195 lbs
-4.48 dash
-17 bench reps
-35" vertical
-118" broad
-9.18" hands
-218 rushes for 1512 yards (6.9 avg) and 15 TDs
-45 receptions for 697 yards (15.5 avg) and 5 TDs

-Played with "just a guy" at QB.

-Elite game speed, shifty runner, excellent with the ball in space.

-Supposedly too small to be an all-purpose weapon catching screen passes/slot
receiving and change-of-pace running.

-Late round/UDFA grade

HRRRRRMMMMMMMMM. Sticking to my opinion that Tavon looks like a fourth rounder with large bust potential. If it comes down to Tavon in the 1st/2nd or that second player in the 5th/6th/7th, I'm going with the second guy who's "too small" every time.

FUNBUNCHER 03-03-2013 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norcalgsr (Post 3289494)
Jackson made plays downfield. Austin is more of a slot/gadget player. Austin is also a more natural ball carrier than Jackson. Jackson is just an end-around guy.

TY Hilton is more like DeSean Jackson. Austin is a bit overrated.

This.^^^^

Desean has better long speed than the Tavon Austin. Austin can get deep too, but he doesn't separate long the way Jackson can.

It's interesting because they both have similar 40s, but their game speed is slightly different.

AcheTen (Thumper) 03-03-2013 10:31 AM

Tavon Austin will be a better player that DeSean Jackson in the NFL.

Both have the same game-breaking speed, but Austin has more muscle and more toughness and will make more plays over the middle.

Austin is like a cross of Jackson and Ray Rice. Best WR in this draft by far.

FUNBUNCHER 03-03-2013 10:46 AM

Threads like these make me feel sorry a little bit for Desmond Howard.
I think he's be a dominant in today's game.

Gibbs screwed up by not identifying Howard's real talent, making plays in space with the ball in his hands, instead of trying to making him a #1 WR going against press coverage which he couldn't beat. Joe Jackson thought he had drafted the next Gary Clark instead of Joe Washington.

Gibbs should have immediately made Howard his #2/#3 slot WR and invented ways to get him the football.

Tavon Austin reminds me a lot of Desmond Howard.

TheFinisher 03-03-2013 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER (Post 3289911)
Threads like these make me feel sorry a little bit for Desmond Howard.
I think he's be a dominant in today's game.

Gibbs screwed up by not identifying Howard's real talent, making plays in space with the ball in his hands, instead of trying to making him a #1 WR going against press coverage which he couldn't beat. Joe Jackson thought he had drafted the next Gary Clark instead of Joe Washington.

Gibbs should have immediately made Howard his #2/#3 slot WR and invented ways to get him the football.

Tavon Austin reminds me a lot of Desmond Howard.

Yup. Peter Warrick was another guy used similarly incorrect.

Armchair Scout 03-03-2013 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach (Post 3289841)
Sooooooo...

-69" tall, 174 lbs
-4.34 dash
-14 bench reps
-32" vertical
-120" broad
-9.18" hands
-72 rushes for 643 yards (8.9 avg) and 3 TDs
-114 receptions for 1289 yards (11.3 avg) and 12 TDs

-Played with possible Top 10 pick QB

-Elite game speed, shifty runner, excellent with the ball in space.

-Supposedly big enough to be an all-purpose weapon catching screen passes/slot
receiving and change-of-pace running.

-First round grade

BUT...

-68" tall, 195 lbs
-4.48 dash
-17 bench reps
-35" vertical
-118" broad
-9.18" hands
-218 rushes for 1512 yards (6.9 avg) and 15 TDs
-45 receptions for 697 yards (15.5 avg) and 5 TDs

-Played with "just a guy" at QB.

-Elite game speed, shifty runner, excellent with the ball in space.

-Supposedly too small to be an all-purpose weapon catching screen passes/slot
receiving and change-of-pace running.

-Late round/UDFA grade

HRRRRRMMMMMMMMM. Sticking to my opinion that Tavon looks like a fourth rounder with large bust potential. If it comes down to Tavon in the 1st/2nd or that second player in the 5th/6th/7th, I'm going with the second guy who's "too small" every time.

While I see your point that Austin is fortunate for his situation, your opinion of Williams seems highly inflated. Williams played for an excellent team with a nice dual threat QB. He was fortunate he played for the team he did as well.

Williams didn't get the chance to play receiver as often as Austin did, but I doubt he is the explosive route runner Austin is. I don't see the "elite game speed" you see in him. Williams is shifty, but he doesn't seem to be particularly explosive in space.

I think the reason Austin is regarded so highly is because he has almost unlimited potential. He is a nice hands catcher who seems to track the ball well on the chances he gets, so he could develop as an outside receiver in a couple of years, if not right away. Austin wasn't asked to be a deep threat at WVU, but I'd guess NFL teams would be interested in if he could become one. Williams may be a nice receiver, both out wide and out of the backfield, but he is unlikely to be as dangerous a Austin.

Now, if Austin is unable to make progress as an outside receiver, he won't prove valuable as a 1st round pick to many teams. But I think Austin could develop down the line as an outside receiver who is dynamic in the slot and can play running back and return kicks. Now, for some teams, that may not justify a 1st round pick, but for teams with a strong short passing game, Austin could be a difference maker.

I like Williams as a potential 3rd down back, but his skill set is not one that is too difficult to find. His athleticism just isn't remarkable for a scat back. I do think he could be a steal for the right team if he lasts to the 6th or 7th round. He is a nice receiver who puts in effort as a pass blocker and is an OK outside rusher, but he simply doesn't bring the explosiveness or potential as a receiver that Austin does. Plus, I think Austin is probably even better as running back despite his lack of size.

farfromforgotten 03-03-2013 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach (Post 3289841)
Sooooooo...

-Played with possible Top 10 pick QB

From what I've read from most posters round these parts is that Austin and Bailey made Geno a top QB prospect. Any 'ol QB could have put up big time #'s playing with those two guys.

tjsunstein 03-03-2013 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farfromforgotten (Post 3290235)
From what I've read from most posters round these parts is that Austin and Bailey made Geno a top QB prospect. Any 'ol QB could have put up big time #'s playing with those two guys.

Bailey especially since he was targeted more downfield, but to say that Geno made Tavon it becomes obvious that you haven't watched a single WVU game. Any QB could have gotten the ball to Tavon the way that Geno did. Screens, draws, underneaths, and slants. Everything was underneath in the backfield with the occasional exception.

Not to take anything away from Geno's throws, I always liked him when he made the right read but that's still a concern of mine.

Witten4HOF 03-03-2013 07:29 PM

Tavon is always going to be his most dangerous working in space. Smart coordinators will take advantage of motion and inserting him in the slot to maximize his gifts in the open field. That being said I am a believer that he can be an effective player in base formations as well playing outside the hash. Ten years ago I think he would be a specialty player but with the league trending toward higher scoring games the rules work in his favor. He is much stronger then Jackson IMO and shouldn't have to issues getting off the los. Once he accelerates there aren't many players that are going to be able to adjust to his sharp routes. Also, to think that he won't be able to stretch the field vertically is just silly to me considering he is faster then 3/4 of the players in the league.

Depending on the creativity of the offense he goes to he has the versatility to possibly do some work out of the backfield ala Percy Havin / Dexter McCluster as he develops but gimmicky plays won't be the staple of his career. I think he will have much better success as a full time WR then people think.

farfromforgotten 03-03-2013 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witten4HOF (Post 3290412)
Tavon is always going to be his most dangerous working in space. Smart coordinators will take advantage of motion and inserting him in the slot to maximize his gifts in the open field. That being said I am a believer that he can be an effective player in base formations as well playing outside the hash. Ten years ago I think he would be a specialty player but with the league trending toward higher scoring games the rules work in his favor. He is much stronger then Jackson IMO and shouldn't have to issues getting off the los. Once he accelerates there aren't many players that are going to be able to adjust to his sharp routes. Also, to think that he won't be able to stretch the field vertically is just silly to me considering he is faster then 3/4 of the players in the league.

Depending on the creativity of the offense he goes to he has the versatility to possibly do some work out of the backfield ala Percy Havin / Dexter McCluster as he develops but gimmicky plays won't be the staple of his career. I think he will have much better success as a full time WR then people think.

I agree. If you draft this guy it would be a mistake to not have him on the field for most offensive snaps. He is not a gimmick player. He's a WR. He should be used as one.

BallerT1215 03-03-2013 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFinisher (Post 3289912)
Yup. Peter Warrick was another guy used similarly incorrect.

Unfortunately, some of the knee injuries took away his speed too.

Caulibflower 03-04-2013 02:46 AM

I didn't read all the responses, but for me it's Tavon Austin and it's not even close. He's very small, but I saw someone mention his bench press numbers. I'm willing to say he could be the Darren Sproles of wide receivers, which is a better thing than being the Darren Sproles of running backs. If New England gets him, it's going to be nasty.

descendency 03-04-2013 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach (Post 3289841)
Sooooooo...

-69" tall, 174 lbs
-4.34 dash
-14 bench reps
-32" vertical
-120" broad
-9.18" hands
-72 rushes for 643 yards (8.9 avg) and 3 TDs
-114 receptions for 1289 yards (11.3 avg) and 12 TDs

-Played with possible Top 10 pick QB

-Elite game speed, shifty runner, excellent with the ball in space.

-Supposedly big enough to be an all-purpose weapon catching screen passes/slot
receiving and change-of-pace running.

-First round grade

BUT...

-68" tall, 195 lbs
-4.48 dash
-17 bench reps
-35" vertical
-118" broad
-9.18" hands
-218 rushes for 1512 yards (6.9 avg) and 15 TDs
-45 receptions for 697 yards (15.5 avg) and 5 TDs

-Played with "just a guy" at QB.

-Elite game speed, shifty runner, excellent with the ball in space.

-Supposedly too small to be an all-purpose weapon catching screen passes/slot
receiving and change-of-pace running.

-Late round/UDFA grade

HRRRRRMMMMMMMMM. Sticking to my opinion that Tavon looks like a fourth rounder with large bust potential. If it comes down to Tavon in the 1st/2nd or that second player in the 5th/6th/7th, I'm going with the second guy who's "too small" every time.

Im with you. He's not Percy Harvin like people are making him out to be. He's much closer to DeSean Jackson, but frankly he's not an outside threat. He's a slot WR version of Jackson. That's a mid round grade.

FUNBUNCHER 03-04-2013 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency (Post 3290737)
Im with you. He's not Percy Harvin like people are making him out to be. He's much closer to DeSean Jackson, but frankly he's not an outside threat. He's a slot WR version of Jackson. That's a mid round grade.


I look at Tavon Austin like the V12 version of Wes Welker.

Austin by himself can screw up coverages and make any passing offense wide open.

The only reason I want Austin in the slot is because of the mismatch it creates.

A third corner/safety/LB can't hang with this dude period.

I would play Austin primarily at WR, but I would use him like the Vikes uses Harvin too, sometimes lining him up in the backfield.

Because Tavon is way more versatile than Desean Jackson, I don't see how he's a midround grade.

The only reason he's not considered the #1 WR in this draft is because of his size.

A GM is making a huge mistake if he thinks Utah State's Kerwynn Williams and Tavon Austin are equivalent players.

Iamcanadian 03-04-2013 10:06 AM

I think they could be twins as far as football ability is concerned, they are so much alike it is scary. Jackson fell to round 2 because of his size and Austin could also but whatever team gets him will have an instant impact receiver, at least until he takes a big hit.

bornnraisedwhodat 03-06-2013 04:20 PM

What makes me like Tavon a little better is he seems to be built thicker, even though they have a similar size. Desean was sticks and bones coming out of college, but Tavon, although still small, looks to solidly built and could probably add on some more muscle.


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