Draft Countdown Forums

Draft Countdown Forums (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/index.php)
-   Tampa Bay Buccaneers Team Forum (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=54)
-   -   Revis Trade: Bogus from the Beginning (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56143)

DeadEagle 04-03-2013 11:18 AM

Revis Trade: Bogus from the Beginning
 
..... and here's why. These are the facts:

  • Revis is a free agent in 2014, and can't be franchised per a current contract agreement
  • Jets' owner Woody Johnson wants Revis gone
  • Jets' GM John Idzik knows he can't let a commodity like Revis get away without some return for the Jets



I believe, given Revis' very fragile mental state about his contracts, that most..... if not ALL..... teams in the NFL, want to stay away from Revis like a milkshake with AIDS. So..... how do you.....as a GM trying to trade a player like this...... drum up some interest? Well kids, you turn to an old friend and ask for help.



Insert: Mark Dominik. More facts, please!


  • Jets' GM John Idzik served in the Bucs personnel department in various capacities for over 10 years, from 1991 to 2001
  • Current Bucs' GM Mark Dominik was brought on by the Bucs in 1995 as a personnel assistant; the same position Idzik held at the time
  • Their offices were next to each others for 2 years at One Buc Place; and down the hall for 6 years


Start doing the math, and realize that the Bucs don't operate publicly.... ever..... and it equals Revis is not going to be a Buc. It was a ruse from the start.



Bottom Line: Idzik likely asked Dominik, his good friend, for a favor to "negotiate" a trade for Revis, hoping to drum up some other teams' anxiety of losing Revis to swoop in and "steal him" from the Bucs grasp. And so far, it's backfired. Hence, the "trade has 'stalled' stories". False!





YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!

DeadEagle 04-03-2013 11:21 AM

Oh, that that's also why the net gain of a first and second round pick to the Jets was reported..... and why it seems insanely high...... is that when <team B> came calling and offered something a little less..... say just ONE first round pick or a couple of second round picks..... it would seem like a bargain..... given what the Bucs were going to give up......

bucfan12 04-03-2013 11:45 AM

I hope your right bc we have our own guys to keep. Keep building through the draft. If we get consistency from josh were a playoff team.

kBuc5 04-03-2013 11:51 AM

It's a good theory. But the fact that we havn't addressed CB this off season makes me believe otherwise.
We would have at least signed a middle tier guy at the prices they were going at if we were not all in on Revis.

brasho 04-03-2013 01:07 PM

I love the theory and I've had thoughts of the same thing but for different reasons.

I always assumed that Dominik didn't refute rumors because he doesn't want the rest of the league to know what the team is up to. Since Raheem has gone, the Bucs operate under a complete cloak of secrecy ut even before then they often went through a lot to throw other teams off their scent (signing Leftwich before drafting Freeman).

Thecollegedropout 04-03-2013 01:14 PM

I actually think Jets and Bucs have an agreement in place that will involve you guys trading up to the 9th pick and us trading down to the 13th pick and getting like 4 other picks from you guys....its just a matter of if the Bucs see either Milliner or Rhodes at pick 9 to go and make the jump up past TEN/SD/MIA.

Its not getting leaked because of the fact that if teams know about this, one of those teams might jump up and ruin the whole thing from the start to get their targeted CB.

I think a draft day trade gets done though.

bucfan12 04-03-2013 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kBuc5 (Post 3319698)
It's a good theory. But the fact that we havn't addressed CB this off season makes me believe otherwise.
We would have at least signed a middle tier guy at the prices they were going at if we were not all in on Revis.

I disagree with this. Dom has pretty much stated he'll go after guys that can improve the team. Aka top level players at their positions.

I had a feeling he wouldn't go overboard on mid level free agent cbs. Especially after he lucked out with Eric wright screwing up who just agreed to restructure his contract.

I'm not ruling out a trade for Revis. I'd accept it but not happy how much we give up. But I'm more of a fan of building trough the draft and adding players that fit the scheme for the right price. That's what Baltimore did when it added anquan boldin for a 3rd rd pick a few years back.

kBuc5 04-03-2013 08:45 PM

@bucfan12 that just proves my point that we are all in on Revis. If Revis wasn't in the picture we would have signed someone, don't care what Dom says in a PC.
The reports of the Glazers wanting Revis should be taken into account also.

bucfan12 04-03-2013 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kBuc5 (Post 3320193)
@bucfan12 that just proves my point that we are all in on Revis. If Revis wasn't in the picture we would have signed someone, don't care what Dom says in a PC.
The reports of the Glazers wanting Revis should be taken into account also.

No. It proves that we didn't want to overpay for a CB more than what they were actually worth on the open market. That's what I'm saying.

They've said it before they like the DB in this draft and think it's 3 rounds deep.

Do I think there's still a high chance on Revis being a Buc? Sure. But there are a ton of "What If's" With him as well. How do we know the progress of the ACL injury? Is he going to be the same player? Don't know. What's the deal on the negotiation talks?

Honestly? The best thing we should do, is draft Rhodes at 13 and call Green Bay about CB Tramon Williams. Packers are about to pay Rodgers and Matthews and possibly Raji. They have pretty solid talent at CB, House, Hayward, Shields, and Bush. They could be looking to shed $$$. Giving up a 3rd or 4th for him would be a more solid move.

kBuc5 04-03-2013 10:03 PM

How many CBs got overpaid this year?

DeadEagle 04-04-2013 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thecollegedropout (Post 3319764)
I think a draft day trade gets done though.



Not unless our doctors check out Revis beforehand. And as far as I can tell, that hasn't happenned yet, and the Jets need to approve that before anything is done. That process is a minimum of three days. So...... if three days before the draft..... it doesn't happen..... no trade.

DeadEagle 04-04-2013 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kBuc5 (Post 3319698)
It's a good theory. But the fact that we havn't addressed CB this off season makes me believe otherwise.
We would have at least signed a middle tier guy at the prices they were going at if we were not all in on Revis.



The more I think about what Schiano and Butch Davis are trying to build, the more I am convinced that they both want high level pass rushers to be paired with mid-round CB's and high quality safeties with speedy LB's.


We all point to Schiano's defensive philosophy as evidence of our potential moves, but I think he's defaulting to Davis' at this point.

brasho 04-04-2013 01:31 PM

Two high dollar safeties could mean a lot more cover and Tampa 2. Why would we dump so much of our resources (high #1 pick, elite CB money into a safety) if the safeties aren't going to be factored heavily into the coverages.

I'm telling you guys, the only two decent defensive performances in the last half of the season came with the team abandoning their blitz happy ways and playing a ton of cover 2. Why invest heavily in CBs when they might plan on running a lot more of it? If the coaching staff is serious about improving and constantly evaluating itself and the team, a change may very well be in store. Improve the pass rush, get mid round CBs (Tampa 2 style, Abraham, Barber, Dwight Smith, were all 3rd rounders, Brian Kelly was a 2nd) with ball skills and that will tackle, get good coverage LBs, and take your chances by not taking so many chances.

bucfan12 04-04-2013 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brasho (Post 3320702)
Two high dollar safeties could mean a lot more cover and Tampa 2. Why would we dump so much of our resources (high #1 pick, elite CB money into a safety) if the safeties aren't going to be factored heavily into the coverages.

I'm telling you guys, the only two decent defensive performances in the last half of the season came with the team abandoning their blitz happy ways and playing a ton of cover 2. Why invest heavily in CBs when they might plan on running a lot more of it? If the coaching staff is serious about improving and constantly evaluating itself and the team, a change may very well be in store. Improve the pass rush, get mid round CBs (Tampa 2 style, Abraham, Barber, Dwight Smith, were all 3rd rounders, Brian Kelly was a 2nd) with ball skills and that will tackle, get good coverage LBs, and take your chances by not taking so many chances.

The thing is, that Interview with Ronde Barber, said Schiano's scheme requires a lot of Press Man coverage because they like to blitz. That's why if we take a SLB, it could be someone like Lemonire or Sio Moore, both of whom brought in for visits, to blitz and rush the QB.

I honestly do not see us going back to tampa 2. Playing press man will require our safeties to play a key role over the top and the box guy to handle the TE.

To tell you the truth, I don't know what dom's strategy is. No one saw Barron coming really. I thought either Mo Clay or Richardson was the target last year.

Many think it's Rhodes, Milliner, and some have mocked us Loutelli and Eifert.

I think it's either going to be CB or DT.

I am with you Brasho on one thing, I'd like to see the return of the Tampa 2. Really do. We mixed a lot of that in against Atlanta, however it's tough to go about just that game because in reality, Atlanta had nothing to play for, so it's difficult to see how much effort was in to WINNING that game.

I think it'd be a good idea to look for guys who can play both man and zone. Someone like Trufant and Poyer and Mathieu.

However, I just don't see Sheridan and SChiano scrapping their entire defensive scheme. Barber said himself it was a work in progress through out the season so to transition and scrap it after year one, probably isn't the best idea. There's a reason sheridan was kept. I think he just needs the right players for it. And that inludes man to man CBs

bigfreak314 04-05-2013 09:54 AM

Let me play a little Devil's Advacate and remind everyone of the Defensive Scheme we ran after Dungy was fired, we were primarily a T2 team but we started blitzing a lot more, with Rhonde coming off edge more than ever. I am hoping we go back to something similar

bucfan12 04-05-2013 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigfreak314 (Post 3321485)
Let me play a little Devil's Advacate and remind everyone of the Defensive Scheme we ran after Dungy was fired, we were primarily a T2 team but we started blitzing a lot more, with Rhonde coming off edge more than ever. I am hoping we go back to something similar

I don't see us scrapping our current scheme. However we need to get rid of the 3rd down 3 man rush. Doesn't work.

brasho 04-05-2013 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigfreak314 (Post 3321485)
Let me play a little Devil's Advacate and remind everyone of the Defensive Scheme we ran after Dungy was fired, we were primarily a T2 team but we started blitzing a lot more, with Rhonde coming off edge more than ever. I am hoping we go back to something similar

Dungy was fired after the 2001 season. Ronde had many years coming off the edge as a blitzer in the nickel package. He was drafted in 97 and started major playing time in 98. The reason it seemed he blitzed more and more was because he was so effective at it, not because of a change in scheme. The same guy ran the defense under Gruden (Kiffin) that ran it under Dungy (Kiffin).

bigfreak314 04-05-2013 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brasho (Post 3321621)
Dungy was fired after the 2001 season. Ronde had many years coming off the edge as a blitzer in the nickel package. He was drafted in 97 and started major playing time in 98. The reason it seemed he blitzed more and more was because he was so effective at it, not because of a change in scheme. The same guy ran the defense under Gruden (Kiffin) that ran it under Dungy (Kiffin).

I know Kiffen was still there until Gruden was fired, it just really seemed like after Gruden arrived they were even more aggressive on defense than usual as far as blitzing. If I'm not mistaken Barber finest season, stats wise that is, as a blitzer was with Dungy, when he had 5.5 sacks, in 2000 which was also his 1st pro bowl. Again I am hoping we go more along that line or something similar as far as our defense goes.

bigfreak314 04-06-2013 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadEagle (Post 3319666)
..... and here's why. These are the facts:

  • Revis is a free agent in 2014, and can't be franchised per a current contract agreement
  • Jets' owner Woody Johnson wants Revis gone
  • Jets' GM John Idzik knows he can't let a commodity like Revis get away without some return for the Jets



I believe, given Revis' very fragile mental state about his contracts, that most..... if not ALL..... teams in the NFL, want to stay away from Revis like a milkshake with AIDS. So..... how do you.....as a GM trying to trade a player like this...... drum up some interest? Well kids, you turn to an old friend and ask for help.



Insert: Mark Dominik. More facts, please!


  • Jets' GM John Idzik served in the Bucs personnel department in various capacities for over 10 years, from 1991 to 2001
  • Current Bucs' GM Mark Dominik was brought on by the Bucs in 1995 as a personnel assistant; the same position Idzik held at the time
  • Their offices were next to each others for 2 years at One Buc Place; and down the hall for 6 years


Start doing the math, and realize that the Bucs don't operate publicly.... ever..... and it equals Revis is not going to be a Buc. It was a ruse from the start.



Bottom Line: Idzik likely asked Dominik, his good friend, for a favor to "negotiate" a trade for Revis, hoping to drum up some other teams' anxiety of losing Revis to swoop in and "steal him" from the Bucs grasp. And so far, it's backfired. Hence, the "trade has 'stalled' stories". False!





YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!

Now it is being reported a source who spoke with Revis told NFL.com's Ian Rapoport the cornerback is not optimistic a trade is going to get done.

bucfan12 04-06-2013 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigfreak314 (Post 3322103)
Now it is being reported a source who spoke with Revis told NFL.com's Ian Rapoport the cornerback is not optimistic a trade is going to get done.

I hope it's true but don't read into everything. There's still 19 days between now and the draft so something could happen.

I honestly do think it all revolves around yhe 13tj pick. If no one is there we could deal it.

I'm not a fan of the Revis to Tampa deal. If rather sign our own guys and keep our picks in case freeman tanks again and have the ammo to take a guy next year.

bucfan12 04-07-2013 10:49 AM

Reason Why I hate the idea of trading a 2014 1st round pick for Revis: We don't have a franchise QB in place. Still too many questions surround Freeman, that it's make or break. If he tanks, we have ZERO legit optioons to replace him in next years draft, as the Jets will own that pick.

DeadEagle 04-07-2013 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigfreak314 (Post 3322103)
Now it is being reported a source who spoke with Revis told NFL.com's Ian Rapoport the cornerback is not optimistic a trade is going to get done.



Interesting development.

DeadEagle 05-15-2013 03:21 PM

The more I ponder the deal, the more I don't mind it all that much. And for two reasons.



A) Look at it like this. We simply traded up in the draft to about the 7th pick to select Darelle Revis, and that's not all that bad a spot to be taking a more known commodity. Plus, he's a better commodity than most of the top end of this past draft. Again, not bad.


B) We didn't part ways with the 2014 First Round pick, but did lose the 2014 Second Round pick, and that makes me happy because it sure looks like the 2014 draft is going to be talent and top heavy, with not nearly the depth of a good draft class. Obviously things change over the course of a year, BUT, we still have that first pick.




If Revis is who we thought he is on the field, the deal we made both with him on his contract and with the Jets to get him, is ok.

bigbuc 05-16-2013 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadEagle (Post 3364159)






B) We didn't part ways with the 2014 First Round pick, but did lose the 2014 Second Round pick, and that makes me happy because it sure looks like the 2014 draft is going to be talent and top heavy, with not nearly the depth of a good draft class. Obviously things change over the course of a year, BUT, we still have that first pick.

I think we still have our 2nd rounder next year. It was the 13th pick this year and a 4th rounder that turns into a 3rd rounder if he's still on the team next year.

DeadEagle 05-16-2013 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbuc (Post 3364902)
I think we still have our 2nd rounder next year. It was the 13th pick this year and a 4th rounder that turns into a 3rd rounder if he's still on the team next year.



Today just keeps getting better!


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:55 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.