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-   -   Victor Cruz and RFA... (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56174)

bigbuc 04-06-2013 07:00 PM

Victor Cruz and RFA...
 
Why has no one taken a shot at signing Cruz to a offer sheet? Or even had him in for a look? The guy has 2600 yards over two years. Got in the end zone 19 times in that span and has had plays of 99 yards and 80 yards which shows he can change a game around. He's only 26 which means at the end of a 5 year deal he'll be 31. And while not big he's not small at 6 feet 208.

I know what all you are going to say. It will cost the team that pulls that trigger a 1st round pick. Which is very true. But if you look at the rate at which WR's don't play up to their draft spot I say why not sign the guy who you know can play in this league? Also you're going to say, you have to pay him a boat load of money. Again true, but if you're looking at Cruz means you need a good WR and guess what... THEY COST MONEY. And last but not least the whole lets wait till he's a FA and sign him then. Nice... But you don't know if you'll be first in line for him and that boat load of money you were just talking about becomes two.

I look at two teams that should look at signing him. 1. Minny, with Jennings and Cruz you have two good WR a Pro bowl TE and the best RB in the game. And all you did was move down two spots in the draft giving up your pick and picking the Hawks. 2. The Pats, they needed to upgrade the Wr core outside of WES for a long time. Now Wes is gone you bring in Danny which is nice, but still and team of Gronk, Cruz, Danny, Aaron and Tom tossing them the ball looks too good to me.

bigbluedefense 04-06-2013 07:01 PM

Bc no one wants to give up a 1st round pick AND 11 million a year (which is what he wants).

That, and collusion.

It's a very steep price to give up for a WR. If you're gonna do that he better be a Julio Jones/AJ Green type of guy.

I love Cruz, but he's not in that mold.

I disagree with the notion that he's just a slot WR which seems to be his perception, but he's not worth 11 mill a year.

descendency 04-06-2013 07:29 PM

It's just too expensive to pay out a big contract and lose a draft pick when you can wait a year and pay out a big contract when he leaves via FA.

Why throw away a (high) draft pick to have a player 1 year earlier?

Iamcanadian 04-06-2013 07:51 PM

Teams don't want the Giants coming back to offer their RFA's contracts to get even. It is tough enough to afford your team without having other teams force your team's salary up. Nobody wants to go to war.

Caulibflower 04-06-2013 07:53 PM

The whole point of "restricted" free agency is that it's hard for other teams to sign away restricted free agents, because it costs more.

boknows34 04-06-2013 08:03 PM

If a team is interested in signing any RFA to an offer sheet they may be waiting until the April 19 deadline. The rumoured offer sheet of Emmanuel Sanders to the Patriots could still be on. The Steelers only have $1.9m in cap space while the Patriots current WRs outside of slot receiver Danny Amendola are Donald Jones and Michael Jenkins. Sanders would cost a low 3rd rd pick and the Pats have plenty of cap space for such a move.

nobodyinparticular 04-06-2013 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense (Post 3322428)
Bc no one wants to give up a 1st round pick AND 11 million a year (which is what he wants).

This is absolutely the difference. Your 1st round pick is expected to be a starter at an incredibly cheap price (esp with rookie cap). Essentially trade that for a good WR at a premium? No thanks.

descendency 04-06-2013 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boknows34 (Post 3322463)
If a team is interested in signing any RFA to an offer sheet they may be waiting until the April 19 deadline. The rumoured offer sheet of Emmanuel Sanders to the Patriots could still be on. The Steelers only have $1.9m in cap space while the Patriots current WRs outside of slot receiver Danny Amendola are Donald Jones and Michael Jenkins. Sanders would cost a low 3rd rd pick and the Pats have plenty of cap space for such a move.

Regardless of when they make the offer, they still get 5 days to match it.

If NE is waiting, Pitt could restructure someone and block the attempt. It seems silly to wait, especially when now is when the bulk of the draft work is probably being done.

FUNBUNCHER 04-06-2013 11:50 PM

Cruz is a pure #1 WR, and if he was unrestricted, I think he'd be in he mix with Harvin/Wallace as the priority FA WR available this season.

Honestly I'd rather have Cruz over either Wallace or Harvin. Just a much more productive player who gives you that deep threat very similarly to the previously mentioned players.

NY+Giants=NYG 04-07-2013 03:39 PM

That's where the debate among our fan base begins and gets interesting. I think it's more of a buyer beware. I think he is a very good WR, but I'd be interested to see him in another system. My contention is that he won't be nearly as productive in another system, like he is in our system. I think playing Z and the slot, in our system allows him to really be productive.

We produced 2 pro bowl WRs, Steve Smith AND Cruz, who are totally different players, in our system. I think a team will see this productivity, and take a chance. I don't think he can be as productive in another system if a team tries to make him an X. I don't see it. I respect our system, and see it as a good system. I'd like to see Eli play another system before he retires because I know he can be even more productive. A lot of Giants fans hate Gilbride, but the WR rules, specifically the choice and option routes is a double edge sword. It's very hard to master, and if one does, they can be productive like Steve Smith and Cruz.

So if Cruz does leave, I want to see how well he can do in another system with another QB throwing to him.

stlouisfan37 04-08-2013 04:49 AM

You also have to take into consideration that the teams who might entertain such a move are more likely to be the teams whose 1st rounder is lower, ie the better teams in the league. Just look at how Tampa is balking at giving up #13 for Revis. No team is going to give up a top 20 pick for Cruz, not when they could just draft a guy like Patterson or Austin that could do the same things that Cruz does. Granted, Cruz is the more developed player, but within a year or two those other guys may very well be just as good, and you have saved $20 million.

So the pool of teams that would even entertain it is pretty small, and it is the top teams in the league, most of whom are pretty well set at receiver. Those teams didn't become playoff teams by making stupid moves. I just don't see it happening, not at his asking price. If he wanted $5 million that would be one thing.

FUNBUNCHER 04-08-2013 05:32 AM

I don't think teams can just assume they can draft a Cruz on their own.
IMO he's an elite player. He and Dez Bryant are IMO by far the best WRs in the NFCE and you could argue among the top 10 at their position in the league.

If your team is a player or two on offense away from being a strong SB contender, I don't see how you look down your nose at Cruz.

Ness 04-08-2013 06:09 AM

Cruz is one of the best wide receivers in the game in my opinion. I wouldn't mind giving up a first round pick for him. It's just that 11 million dollar per year contract that would concern me. The only way I would even think about giving up all of that would be if I played in the NFC, I had a top flight quarterback, and was really in need of a dynamic receiver.

killxswitch 04-08-2013 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER (Post 3323450)
I don't think teams can just assume they can draft a Cruz on their own.
IMO he's an elite player. He and Dez Bryant are IMO by far the best WRs in the NFCE and you could argue among the top 10 at their position in the league.

If your team is a player or two on offense away from being a strong SB contender, I don't see how you look down your nose at Cruz.

Hakeem Nicks?

FUNBUNCHER 04-08-2013 09:09 AM

Cruz has long speed and quickness that Nicks can't touch.

Rosebud 04-08-2013 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER (Post 3323473)
Cruz has long speed and quickness that Nicks can't touch.

And Nicks can get off the line, go up with power and yank the ball down, even against tight coverage in a way that Cruz can't even touch. When both are healthy Nicks is the more unstoppable of the two, although both are fantastic.

bigbluedefense 04-08-2013 09:33 AM

When healthy Hakeem Nicks is better than Victor Cruz. Nicks problem has always been health. But Nicks is a monster. He reminds me of Larry Fitzgerald the way he attacks the ball in the air.

And his quickness is underrated. Nicks can separate.

Scotty D 04-08-2013 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense (Post 3322428)
Bc no one wants to give up a 1st round pick AND 11 million a year (which is what he wants).

That, and collusion.

Yes, ever since all the lock out business how many RFAs have been signed? Teams have all but abandoned that method of player acquistion.

Wasn't that long ago teams were pissing each other off with poison pill contracts. Those were some fun off-seasons. Steve Hutchinson's 49 million contract becomes fully guaranteed if he plays 8 games in Seattle. Then the Seahawks did one to Minny on Nate Burleson.

scottyboy 04-08-2013 10:15 AM

ugh all this talk makes me miss healthy hakeem nicks

killxswitch 04-08-2013 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyboy (Post 3323515)
ugh all this talk makes me miss healthy hakeem nicks

Bill Polian picked Donald Brown instead of him. I wanted Nicks so badly.

FlyingElvis 04-08-2013 01:35 PM

I think Cruz would be great for NE and is exactly what the team needs. But I don't really see it as a viable option based on the cost of his contract alone, nevermind throwing a 1st into the mix. Especially since I don't think Cruz should be seen as a field-stretching outside WR (even if he does have that trick in his bag). He's best suited to the slot and that would mean Amendola is out.

With Gronk and Hernandez signing new deals last year that won't pay either of them a double digit salary in any year of their respective deal, it just seems dumb to go and give a WR a far more lucrative deal. He wouldn't see significantly more touches than either of those TEs and would be making their annual salaries combined each year. There's really no need to pay that kind of money for a guy who will most likely be the third head on a three headed monster.

Rosebud 04-08-2013 01:41 PM

I get that we all love Gronk, but did you seriously just suggest Cruz would be behind Hernandez for touches?

FlyingElvis 04-08-2013 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud (Post 3323620)
I get that we all love Gronk, but did you seriously just suggest Cruz would be behind Hernandez for touches?

I didn't mean third head to sound like a pecking order, if that's what you mean. They would likely be fairly even (80 catches each, give or take) with a chance that Cruz gets the 100+ that Welker saw annually.

What I am suggesting is that he would not triple Hernandez in touches while making triple his pay.

SuperMcGee 04-08-2013 02:18 PM

The Bills probably could have drafted Nicks if they hadn't gone for James Hardy the year before :/

We got a great player, still, but one that's probably been hurt even more than Hakeem the Dream.

BallerT1215 04-08-2013 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperMcGee (Post 3323653)
The Bills probably could have drafted Nicks if they hadn't gone for James Hardy the year before :/

We got a great player, still, but one that's probably been hurt even more than Hakeem the Dream.

I still wanted Nicks so badly that year. At the same time, we still had hope for Hardy at that point. ahhhhhh.....


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