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-   -   Menelik Watson vs Terron Armstead (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56359)

LonghornsLegend 04-19-2013 11:38 AM

Menelik Watson vs Terron Armstead
 
Two raw intriguing, very similiar Tackle prospects who both have ability to protect the blindside but still need to develop. Both are very athletic with high upside. Who ya got and why?


I think it'll be interesting to see where both guys go, and if the run on tackles goes as expected then one of these guys going late in the 1st wouldn't surprise me one bit. Keep an eye on Baltimore, as both guys would make sense whether they bring back McKinnie or not and maybe Green Bay. They have so much in common, I'm struggling with who I prefer, but Armstead running a 4.6 40 and playing great in the East/West shrine game probably sold me. It's hard to project a guy coming from Arkansas Pine Bluff but his measurables fit that of an elite LT if you can coach him up.

thebow305 04-19-2013 11:57 AM

For me this one is easy it's Watson. Much more impressive physically and even though both are incredibly raw, at least we know Watson has done work at the D1 level against much greater competition. Another factor working in his favor is that he was able to face off against potential NFL star defensive ends Bjoern Werner, Tank Carradine and Brandon Jenkins on a daily basis. Not to mention potential 2014 top 15 pick, DT Timmy Jernigan.

Iamcanadian 04-19-2013 12:03 PM

Both are excellent talents who project down the road to be perhaps being special.

Menelik Watson:
He is probably the most physically gifted lineman in this year's draft. He's a massive, nimble blocker who has upside to eventually play LT.
He's an ex British basketball player and he is very raw and never dominated at the college level. He needs serious work on technique and really struggles against stunts.
He has a bust factor due to his rawness but he could also be special in 2 years if his instincts continue to grow.

Terron Armstead:
He has LT written all over him, he has the length and mirrors very well in pass protection.Once he locks on, he rarely loses and he is very good in space and can really get out on the move and block.
However, he has a poor anchor and really needs work on his strength, he struggles badly with power and according to scouts, his frame is maxed out.
He will probably have to play OG for a couple of seasons before he is ready to move to LT.

I think it is a coin toss as far as who reaches their ceiling first, my guess is that Watson gets picked slightly higher than Armstead but you never know.
GM's will likely give the edge to Watson because of his massive strength while still having the good feet of a LT vs Armstead who has excellent feet but not the power of Watson.

PACKmanN 04-19-2013 12:10 PM

Can someone please tell me what has made Watson's stock shore up to the first round? Why in the world is he over someone like Kyle Long, who is being pushed to the inside for no reason?

I would take Long over both

LonghornsLegend 04-19-2013 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebow305 (Post 3335381)
For me this one is easy it's Watson. Much more impressive physically and even though both are incredibly raw, at least we know Watson has done work at the D1 level against much greater competition. Another factor working in his favor is that he was able to face off against potential NFL star defensive ends Bjoern Werner, Tank Carradine and Brandon Jenkins on a daily basis. Not to mention potential 2014 top 15 pick, DT Timmy Jernigan.

What do you base this off of? And if we were to give the title to anyone, I would say Lane Johnson is the most physically gifted lineman in the class but I don't think either of these guys are that far off but I ask because I can't find any seperation to that magnitude in sheer athleticism or phsyically.

fenikz 04-19-2013 01:15 PM

Armstead is so much better physically, needs some real coaching and time to develop but he is my #4 LT by far

if AZ goes OLB in the 1st, I see his floor being their 2nd

SuperPacker 04-19-2013 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenikz (Post 3335462)
Armstead is so much better physically, needs some real coaching and time to develop but he is my #4 LT by far

if AZ goes OLB in the 1st, I see his floor being their 2nd

Yeah, they aren't really that comparable as athletes.

Terron Armstead
40 time: 4.71
Vertical jump: 34.5
Broad jump: 112.0
3 cone drill: 7.62
20yd shuttle: 4.72

Menelik Watson
40 time: 5.29
Vertical jump: 24.5
Broad jump: 103.0
3 cone drill: 8.31
20yd shuttle: 5.01

Iamcanadian 04-19-2013 03:14 PM

They are both very good athletes with Armstead on the fantastic side.
Watson comes from a very tough neighbourhood, he has an explosive 1st step with a powerful punch and the foot quickness to play LT. He is mobile enough to reach the second level and the range to be effective there.
He is flexible and bends well and most important, he has the frame to carry 330lbs. without losing any of his explosion.

There is no doubt that Armstead is a fantastic athlete and can really move well on a football field and reach the second level and sustains his blocks pretty well. However, he can be bull rushed back into the passer and needs to work on his lower body strength. I've read that his body is maxed out so what you see is what you are going to get as far as size is concerned.
You also have to take into account the level of competition he played against which will likely drop him him below Watson and Long.

However, Watson, Long and Armstead are all raw as can be and need a lot of work on technique to reach their sizable potential.

stlouisfan37 04-19-2013 03:58 PM

I like Long over the other two as well. I think he has the makings of an all-pro at whatever position he falls into.

mightytitan9 04-19-2013 04:35 PM

I don't really love either of them, but in the right system they can definitely both be starting LTs in the NFL.

SolidGold 04-19-2013 09:33 PM

I like the Quesenberry kid over either of those guys :)

energizerbunny 04-20-2013 02:10 AM

Too tell you the truth, I don't see Armstead turning out for the team that drafts him. He has a couple years to go before i'd be comfortable in starting him, has a number of things he really needs to work on before he is a starting LT.

For some reason, some team will likely try to plug and play him, he will be brutal and all of a sudden he'll be labelled a "bust".

Nastradamus 04-21-2013 11:51 AM

Is Armstead significantly more raw than Johnson?

BallerT1215 04-21-2013 06:39 PM

I'll tell you this about Watson.

Coming into 2012 season, we had a ton of questions on the o-line. We had lost a lot of veterans the past 2 seasons to the draft, and didn't bring in a lot of quality o-line on signing day. He arrived at FSU, they plugged him into RT and never looked back. He is still raw obviously, but there was a large part of the season where we didn't hear his name once and thats great for o-line when your name isn't getting mentioned.

I'll also tell you the FSU staff was really taken back when he declared because 1.) They thought he would come back for sure with him new to football and still learning at a high level and 2) They realized how much of a hole he presented to fill for next season.

Menelik has a long way to go, but he can play and his frame is perfect for his raw abilities to keep growing into a Pro Bowl OT.

diabsoule 04-21-2013 08:20 PM

I think Armstead is the more advanced player between the two. He turned heads at the Shrine Game and again at the Senior Bowl. If you perform good enough at one to be invited to the other and the continue to perform then you're doing something right.

I think Armstead is the better athlete, has the better hand movement, plays nastier, and has what you're looking for in a future LT. Watson I see as a massive project that needs to put in a lot of time and effort to truly be a premier LT at the next level.

If I were drafting right now I'd select Armstead as a plug and play player. Watson I would take as a swing tackle who might be ready to start in a year or two.

TACKLE 04-21-2013 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabsoule (Post 3337609)
I think Armstead is the more advanced player between the two. He turned heads at the Shrine Game and again at the Senior Bowl. If you perform good enough at one to be invited to the other and the continue to perform then you're doing something right.

I think Armstead is the better athlete, has the better hand movement, plays nastier, and has what you're looking for in a future LT. Watson I see as a massive project that needs to put in a lot of time and effort to truly be a premier LT at the next level.

If I were drafting right now I'd select Armstead as a plug and play player. Watson I would take as a swing tackle who might be ready to start in a year or two.

Don't know about that. Armstead needs A LOT of work in his pass sets. He opens up way to quickly and is gonna get killed around the edge despite being so athletic. That's something he's going to have to re-work before teams feel comfortable putting him out there. He was ok in the Senior Bowl game but let's not pretend he was standout.

Both him and Menelik need a lot of work and unless you're absolutely desperate, hopefully neither guys are week one starters at tackle.

PossibleCabbage 04-21-2013 09:23 PM

Watson really isn't the sort of athlete I look for at Left Tackle, so I wouldn't look at him in the first round at all (bad shuttle, cone times are worrisome, and correlate my concerns about his feet from watching his tape.)

Armstead is a much better talent, but the level of competition makes it so I would hesitate to spend a first on him.

If I'm trading back high into the second and taking an OT, and both are there, I take Armstead. Can't see any way Green Bay takes either though. They'd be better off hoping Sherrod's leg heals than taking the hail mary with either of those two.


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