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-   -   Why Did *INSERT NAME* Fall So Far? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56620)

D-Unit 04-30-2013 01:55 PM

Why Did *INSERT NAME* Fall So Far?
 
Let's play this game!

I'll start....

Why did Reid Fragel fall so far in the draft?

PossibleCabbage 04-30-2013 02:05 PM

Fragel's sort of an odd mixture. He was a right tackle, but was sort of a finesse player without solid technique, and he's honestly not as good an athlete as you'd like with that type (plus he's too tall to move to guard). There are parts there to work with, but I think the consensus was that there was a lot of work that needed doing. Developmental, and unlikely to be a gameday active (of which there are generally only 7 OL, so you want your backups to be able to man multiple positions.)

Why did Jordan Poyer fall?

Don Vito 04-30-2013 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage (Post 3352784)
Fragel's sort of an odd mixture. He was a right tackle, but was sort of a finesse player without solid technique, and he's honestly not as good an athlete as you'd like with that type (plus he's too tall to move to guard). There are parts there to work with, but I think the consensus was that there was a lot of work that needed doing. Developmental, and unlikely to be a gameday active (of which there are generally only 7 OL, so you want your backups to be able to man multiple positions.)

Why did Jordan Poyer fall?

Poyer fell because of physical limitations I think, but there has to be something more considering how far he fell. Maybe an injury or something, I don't know. Some people like PF28 saw him as a top 15 pick and the product was definitely there on the field to support it, the only thing is he just didn't look like an NFL player athletically to teams. I don't think he will be Daymeion (sp?) Hughes in that he can't be an NFL player, I could easily see him having a Nathan Vasher (when he was good) impact if he lands in the right situation. He makes plays and plays bigger than he is.

Michael Buchanan?

Attyla the Hawk 04-30-2013 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Vito (Post 3352789)
Poyer fell because of physical limitations I think, but there has to be something more considering how far he fell. Maybe an injury or something, I don't know. Some people like PF28 saw him as a top 15 pick and the product was definitely there on the field to support it, the only thing is he just didn't look like an NFL player athletically to teams. I don't think he will be Daymeion (sp?) Hughes in that he can't be an NFL player, I could easily see him having a Nathan Vasher (when he was good) impact if he lands in the right situation. He makes plays and plays bigger than he is.

Michael Buchanan?

Several reasons:

1. Afraid of contact. He's a 'defend to daylight' kind of end. He ALWAYS (virtually always) chooses the path of least resistance to wherever he is going. Almost every pursuit or rush is this elongated ellipse. He blocks himself out of the play with regularity.

2. Mediocre quickness. Rarely is he the first on his own line to get off on the snap of the ball.

3. Got manhandled at the Senior Bowl. Really practiced poorly.

Jesse Williams

princefielder28 04-30-2013 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Attyla the Hawk (Post 3352818)
Several reasons:

1. Afraid of contact. He's a 'defend to daylight' kind of end. He ALWAYS (virtually always) chooses the path of least resistance to wherever he is going. Almost every pursuit or rush is this elongated ellipse. He blocks himself out of the play with regularity.

2. Mediocre quickness. Rarely is he the first on his own line to get off on the snap of the ball.

3. Got manhandled at the Senior Bowl. Really practiced poorly.

Jesse Williams

Most reasonable explanation I can come up with Williams is that he's a 2 down player.

Cornelius Washington

pierce2walker 04-30-2013 03:13 PM

I'm pretty sure medical flags dropped Williams.

PossibleCabbage 04-30-2013 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pierce2walker (Post 3352846)
I'm pretty sure medical flags dropped Williams.

I have heard there were some concerns with the knee and that NFL teams take knees and feet much more seriously with big guys since they're carrying more weight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by princefielder28 (Post 3352821)
Cornelius Washington

Tape is terrible, on a great Georgia DL, and with a bunch of world-class measurables to boot he really gave inconsistent effort (was content to be blocked most of the time.) Schematically limited, since despite athleticism and the fact that he played there in college, really isn't suited to play OLB in an odd front since gap discipline is inconsistent and can't play coverage at all. Really only suited to line up in a 9-technique and go after the QB, which makes him a 3rd down specialist in my book. Valuable in the right fit, just not high.

Andre Ellington?

Halsey 04-30-2013 03:22 PM

I'm not a fan of saying a player fell. The NFL Draft is conducted by 32 teams with 32 different boards. What does a player fall from? The better question is why did so many people think ______ would be drafted higher or lower than he actually was.

Cornelius Washington seems to have been overvalued by fans and media because of his workouts. I doubt any team considered taking him as high as many media and fans seemed to think he would go.

mightytitan9 04-30-2013 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halsey (Post 3352860)
I'm not a fan of saying a player fell. The NFL Draft is conducted by 32 teams with 32 different boards. What does a player fall from? The better question is why did so many people think ______ would be drafted higher or lower than he actually was.

Cornelius Washington seems to have been overvalued by fans and media because of his workouts. I doubt any team considered taking him as high as many media and fans seemed to think he would go.

This is a great point, prior the workouts I had him a 7th rounder that might be worth a shot. Once he killed at his workouts, I thought some team might have elevated him in their rankings and might reach for him in the 4th or 5th.

So to me, he basically split where I thought he should go based on film, and where I thought someone would take him due to his measurables.

niel89 04-30-2013 11:21 PM

Chase Thomas. I know he is a limited athlete but the guy produced at a good level and was one of the better Pac 12 defenders. I know he isn't a 1st rounder, but completely undrafted was a shock.

BallerT1215 04-30-2013 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage (Post 3352853)
Andre Ellington?

I like Ellington a lot, but I think it has to be injury concerns. He was constantly banged up during his Clemson career, but produced when he was on the field. Teams are probably unsure if he can withstand the NFL grind, and his speed translating to the NFL is questionable at best I'm guessing.

JohnCandy 05-01-2013 09:55 AM

Khaseem Greene?

I really think the Bears got a couple of nice values with Greene and Washington.

MassNole 05-01-2013 10:14 AM

Lonnie Pryor.

bigbluedefense 05-01-2013 10:15 AM

I liked Corn. I think in the right system he can be a steal. I like the idea of him being a wide 9 rusher, that's a good fit for him.

Sacks have tons of value in this league, even if he winds up being just a situational rusher on 3rd down, if he can get me sacks, that's an absolute steal in the 6th round.

If he can get me sacks, he'd be a steal in the 3rd round. Sacks matter. A lot.

Babylon 05-01-2013 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niel89 (Post 3353359)
Chase Thomas. I know he is a limited athlete but the guy produced at a good level and was one of the better Pac 12 defenders. I know he isn't a 1st rounder, but completely undrafted was a shock.

Well basically he's the same athlete as Jarvis Jones as far as workout numbers go.

I thought Thomas would have gone around the 4th round and i'm still not sure he won't be effective in some capacity for the Saints. Might have done him good if he had been arrested the week before the draft. Give him a little street cred. Just kidding on that last comment, sort of.

dawhizz 05-02-2013 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnCandy (Post 3353584)
Khaseem Greene?

I really think the Bears got a couple of nice values with Greene and Washington.

Not sure I would call Greene a big fall - he was never going to be a 1st round pick and was iffy in the second. I think for Greene it came down to instincts - he's relatively new to the position from safety and he doesn't always react as fast as you would like or take the right angle to the ball, so while he picked up a ton a tackles, too many were 5 yards father down the field than they should have been.

How about Ryan Swope?

SunTzu_22 05-02-2013 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawhizz (Post 3354697)

How about Ryan Swope?

- Had problems with drops in college, and has very small hands.
- Probably doesnīt project to be anything more than a slot wr in the NFL.
- Has 2-3 reported concussions already, and maybe more. Wouldnīt surprise me, if thats what scared teams away.

Quinton Patton?

Black Bolt 05-02-2013 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawhizz (Post 3354697)
Not sure I would call Greene a big fall - he was never going to be a 1st round pick and was iffy in the second. I think for Greene it came down to instincts - he's relatively new to the position from safety and he doesn't always react as fast as you would like or take the right angle to the ball, so while he picked up a ton a tackles, too many were 5 yards father down the field than they should have been.

How about Ryan Swope?

I think that Greene is viewed as a WILL only, meaning a 4-3 team with a WILL need would have to pick him. Apparently that need wasn't expressed as a priority until the 4th. Having said that, he is in a VERY good position with the Bears defense.

Okay, enough of the small talk, why did Matt Barkley fall to the 4th round?

Black Bolt 05-02-2013 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunTzu_22 (Post 3354717)
- Had problems with drops in college, and has very small hands.
- Probably doesnīt project to be anything more than a slot wr in the NFL.
- Has 2-3 reported concussions already, and maybe more. Wouldnīt surprise me, if thats what scared teams away.

Quinton Patton?

I don't think Ryan really fell when you consider his concussions and also something I pointed out weeks ago, he doesn't quite play to his timed speed.

Now, Quinton Patton? I have no earthly idea now he lasted 5 rounds. Someone school us.

Babylon 05-02-2013 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawhizz (Post 3354697)
Not sure I would call Greene a big fall - he was never going to be a 1st round pick and was iffy in the second. I think for Greene it came down to instincts - he's relatively new to the position from safety and he doesn't always react as fast as you would like or take the right angle to the ball, so while he picked up a ton a tackles, too many were 5 yards father down the field than they should have been.

How about Ryan Swope?

Swope has had a few concussions but before they started obsessing over them a lot of guys had them and they were swept under the rug.

Swope probably went a couple of rounds lower than he should have but that really isn't that much when you consider how many other receivers were taken in those two rounds.

How about Ryan Nassib?

Robcards 05-02-2013 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon (Post 3354908)
Swope has had a few concussions but before they started obsessing over them a lot of guys had them and they were swept under the rug.

Swope probably went a couple of rounds lower than he should have but that really isn't that much when you consider how many other receivers were taken in those two rounds.

How about Ryan Nassib?

Where to even begin on Nassib? I really don't think he 'fell' in regards to teams boards. The media hype created this guy I feel, and felt compelled to keep mocking him to the Bills either in the 1st or 2nd simply because of the coach connection. His tape is bad, he was awful during senior bowl week, and he really doesn't have any of the tools to be an nfl starter.

Baccari Rambo?

BallerT1215 05-02-2013 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robcards (Post 3354919)
Baccari Rambo?

First off - multiple suspensions due to off field problems revolving around drugs. That will drop you 2-3 right away. Doesn't always have the greatest form tackling, and takes a lot of chances that sometimes results in big plays for the other teams. Overall he has a good game and I liked him a lot, but he definitely dropped due to the off the field problems.

descendency 05-02-2013 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt (Post 3354819)
Okay, enough of the small talk, why did Matt Barkley fall to the 4th round?

Weak arm, pretty boy USC attitude, limited upside.

Barrett Jones? (how the hell was he available in the 7th round???)

SickwithIt1010 05-02-2013 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency (Post 3355123)
Weak arm, pretty boy USC attitude, limited upside.

Barrett Jones? (how the hell was he available in the 7th round???)

Barkley didn't have anywhere near the attitude USC QB's have had in the past. He's almost the complete opposite in that regard compared to Leinart and Sanchez so...Idk where you're getting that. If you're going to hate on anything about Matt Barkley his attitude, character, and work ethic should be the last things.

and Barrett went in the 4th.

bucfan12 05-02-2013 06:31 PM

Jordan Poyer?


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