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-   -   Re-Visiting the 2009 QB Class: (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56939)

bucfan12 07-04-2013 08:13 AM

Re-Visiting the 2009 QB Class:
 
Thought I'd bring this up. Bring in the Stafford/Sanchez/Freeman debate. All 3 are entering into a critical 5th year.

(1) Matt Stafford Detroit: Started his career off shaky with injury ridden seasons years 1 and 2. Broke out big time in 2011 leading Detroit to the playoffs. Took a back seat in 2012 with some inconsistency. Talent is there. Obviously, throwing to Calvin Johnson helps. One could make an argument the defense wasn't great either in 2012.

(5) Mark Sanchez NYJ: I thought the start to his career was overrated. Masked a lot of deficiancies behind a great defense in 09 and 2010. Once the pieces started falling apart, so did Sanchez. They drafted Geno Smith for a reason. Sanchez has to really impress just to save his job for opening day.

(17) Josh Freeman Tampa Bay: Started very well his rookie yeaer then faltered. 2010 was a very good year that had many believing he could reach elite potential. 2011 was a dissapointment for Josh and the entire team. 2012 there was a stance where he elevated his play from average to top 10 QB status until he played Sanchez esque in the final 3 game stretch against Phi, NO, STL. The talent is there to be a franchise QB. Needs to show more poise and consistency, somewhat similar to Stafford. Defense wasn't all there the past 2 years etiher.

2013 I would say are very critical years for these 3. Thoughts opinions? Debates?

J-Mike88 07-04-2013 08:45 AM

1 guy has shown moments of greatness, but has failed to be a leader. I had questions about Stafford coming out because of that leadership void at Georgia.

Sanchez & Freeman are fighting for their jobs now. Both could easily fail.
But Freeman could rise up and start to blossom into a good QB. He's had moments, but is too inconsistent.
With the Muscle Hamster at RB and more weapons at WR now, he has no excuses left.

Sanchez is mentally weak and has average arm strength. And he's in the middle of a circus.
He's closer to becoming a FT clothing model than successful QB.

phlysac 07-04-2013 08:50 AM

I'm not afraid to admit that I really thought Nate Davis would be in this discussion. That was prior to the draft, and not as a 49ers-homer. When the 49ers drafted him I learned more about his work-ethic which turned me off. I absolutely loved him at Ball State. I thought he was going to be a good one.

Ness 07-04-2013 10:55 AM

:banana:
Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac (Post 3397379)
I'm not afraid to admit that I really thought Nate Davis would be in this discussion. That was prior to the draft, and not as a 49ers-homer. When the 49ers drafted him I learned more about his work-ethic which turned me off. I absolutely loved him at Ball State. I thought he was going to be a good one.

I loved Nate Davis. He showed real potential.

49erNation85 07-05-2013 12:24 AM

Sanchez just needs to go. he is on a down fall.

CJSchneider 07-05-2013 10:12 AM

I remember thinking Sanchez was a second round QB at best, then being laughed at when he was drafted at #5. Who's laughing now?

bucfan12 07-05-2013 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJSchneider (Post 3397772)
I remember thinking Sanchez was a second round QB at best, then being laughed at when he was drafted at #5. Who's laughing now?

Yeah. I continued to say, after one season, Sanchez declares and is a top 10 talent? Really?

Even Pete Carroll knew something when he declared and didn't think he was ready. Many thought he was unprofessional the way he said it. Who was right?

EDIT: To be fair. Alex Smith was a late bloomer. Eli Manning got a ton of Criticism his first 4 years in. Things didn't start to click til year 5.

That is why in my opinion, it's proper to give 1st round QBs 5 years before you give up, that is if they've shown signs of beig that franchise QB. In this case, both Stafford and Freeman have, but they've had their down falls equally as well. That is why this year is crucial for both.

K Train 07-05-2013 10:24 AM

Honestly i think Stafford relies on calvin TOO MUCH, he gets tunnel vision in the worst way. Doesnt hurt his stat sheet, makes him and calvin awesome for fantasy, but its a part of the reason why they dont put up a lot of wins

FinChase 07-05-2013 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K Train (Post 3397775)
Honestly i think Stafford relies on calvin TOO MUCH, he gets tunnel vision in the worst way. Doesnt hurt his stat sheet, makes him and calvin awesome for fantasy, but its a part of the reason why they dont put up a lot of wins

The same thing could have been said for Brett Favre his first few years playing with Sterling Sharpe. I expect it's really hard to go away from the guy you KNOW will catch your passes every time.

Halsey 07-05-2013 12:21 PM

Everyone likes to discredit Stafford for throwing to Calvin. Who should he throw to? Nate Burleson? It's great that Stafford has CJ, but other than Pettrigrew, there's not much else to get excited about. The Lions haven't provided Stafford with great blocking or a great running game. The other WRs are not good. Having 1 great WR and a good TE doesn't mean that Stafford is living on easy street.

K Train 07-05-2013 12:50 PM

I imagine that would be so hard to get away from. I was just saying that it has hindered his development a little, and it really isnt his fault. They havent put good targets around him. Obviously they were hoping titus could be that guy, they are hoping broyles can be that guy....but up until now it has kept stafford from becoming as good as i think he can

Calvin and 2 TEs isnt really enough, especially when you factor in the extreme amounts they throw the ball and how poor their run game has been

BallerT1215 07-05-2013 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halsey (Post 3397851)
Everyone likes to discredit Stafford for throwing to Calvin. Who should he throw to? Nate Burleson? It's great that Stafford has CJ, but other than Pettrigrew, there's not much else to get excited about. The Lions haven't provided Stafford with great blocking or a great running game. The other WRs are not good. Having 1 great WR and a good TE doesn't mean that Stafford is living on easy street.

Pettigrew has dropped so many of Stafford's passes the past few seasons including many in the end zone so I'm not sure he trusts him either.

wicket 07-05-2013 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halsey (Post 3397851)
Everyone likes to discredit Stafford for throwing to Calvin. Who should he throw to? Nate Burleson? It's great that Stafford has CJ, but other than Pettrigrew, there's not much else to get excited about. The Lions haven't provided Stafford with great blocking or a great running game. The other WRs are not good. Having 1 great WR and a good TE doesn't mean that Stafford is living on easy street.

Id reckon to say that titus young is a better receiver than Calvin, just didnt get the chance to proof himself

JRTPlaya21 07-05-2013 04:55 PM

I might have dropped the Redskins had we traded up for Sanchez.

Monomach 07-06-2013 02:32 PM

My QB thoughts from that year:

I figured Sanchez and Stafford as future pro bowlers, Davis as a solid starter for a long time, and Bomar as a guy who had a chance to pan out as a starter with some good coaching. I thought Freeman was a career backup and Pat White didn't deserve to be drafted.

Right now I'm not super high on any of them, but Stafford and Freeman obviously are good enough to be starting. I still think Sanchez could end up being a borderline starter if he spends a few years as a backup QB under a really good WCO coach. He never got the developmental time he needed because he got tossed in pretty quickly. If the Bears could have him on a reasonable contract, I'd be pretty happy with it.

Caulibflower 07-06-2013 04:24 PM

I didn't really like any of them very much. I think I liked Freeman the most. I thought Stafford was kind of inaccurate and interception-prone, and I really didn't like that. His 2011 season was making me eat crow a bit, but then last year I started thinking I might be right again. He's got the perfect player for the way he plays in Calvin Johnson, and I'm really not sure he'd be able to have the same success without him. Freeman just needs to settle down. One of my lasting memories of him is a close-up TV shot of him as a rookie - his eyes were HUGE. He still looks that way sometimes. When he's comfortable, he's got it. Maybe drafting Mike Glennon will light a fire under him, maybe it's just make him more nervous and mistake-prone. We'll see. I'm pretty sure I compared Sanchez to Matt Hasselbeck at the time. The skillset is there, but it's time for him to get out of New York and onto a team with a better environment to develop a QB. I think he could get another shot to start somewhere, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he has a David Carr-like career arc, starting early in his career before spending the second half of his career as a backup.

bucfan12 07-06-2013 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caulibflower (Post 3398768)
I didn't really like any of them very much. I think I liked Freeman the most. I thought Stafford was kind of inaccurate and interception-prone, and I really didn't like that. His 2011 season was making me eat crow a bit, but then last year I started thinking I might be right again. He's got the perfect player for the way he plays in Calvin Johnson, and I'm really not sure he'd be able to have the same success without him. Freeman just needs to settle down. One of my lasting memories of him is a close-up TV shot of him as a rookie - his eyes were HUGE. He still looks that way sometimes. When he's comfortable, he's got it. Maybe drafting Mike Glennon will light a fire under him, maybe it's just make him more nervous and mistake-prone. We'll see. I'm pretty sure I compared Sanchez to Matt Hasselbeck at the time. The skillset is there, but it's time for him to get out of New York and onto a team with a better environment to develop a QB. I think he could get another shot to start somewhere, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he has a David Carr-like career arc, starting early in his career before spending the second half of his career as a backup.

In your analysis of Freeman, you could not be more right. When I watched him in 2010, his confidence was HIGH and seemed to just rip it. Was ready to take the NFL by storm. Now, it just seems he's not comfortable at times and lacks the confidence. I'm not sure how you just lose it, but I've seen it the past 2 seasons.

niel89 07-06-2013 07:52 PM

Stafford is an odd case. He put up 5k and 40+ TDs two years ago and then sucked it up last year. CJ and the sheer number of attempts pumps up his stats and really hurt them last year. I know they don't have the parts to balance out the passing and running yet but they really need to. Such lopsided offense isn't good.

Caulibflower 07-06-2013 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucfan12 (Post 3398876)
In your analysis of Freeman, you could not be more wrong. When I watched him in 2010, his confidence was HIGH and seemed to just rip it. Was ready to take the NFL by storm. Now, it just seems he's not comfortable at times and lacks the confidence. I'm not sure how you just lose it, but I've seen it the past 2 seasons.

Your post here doesn't really contradict what I said. I never said he couldn't rip it. I said he looks uncomfortable at times, and what I said about him as a rookie was just an example of something that made me think his thoughts might have been going a mile a minute. Sometimes it still looks that way in games, and his reaction to a sensory overload seems to be, sometimes, to just rip it.

bucfan12 07-06-2013 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caulibflower (Post 3398950)
Your post here doesn't really contradict what I said. I never said he couldn't rip it. I said he looks uncomfortable at times, and what I said about him as a rookie was just an example of something that made me think his thoughts might have been going a mile a minute. Sometimes it still looks that way in games, and his reaction to a sensory overload seems to be, sometimes, to just rip it.

I actually meant to say you were right. iPad auto corrected me for some reason.

Caulibflower 07-06-2013 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niel89 (Post 3398941)
Stafford is an odd case. He put up 5k and 40+ TDs two years ago and then sucked it up last year. CJ and the sheer number of attempts pumps up his stats and really hurt them last year. I know they don't have the parts to balance out the passing and running yet but they really need to. Such lopsided offense isn't good.

I think Reggie Bush could help out a lot. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him record 5 catches a game. Expect it, actually. Ryan Broyles could be a great intermediate option for them if he can keep his knees from exploding, and Troy Edwards is getting some buzz as well as a potential replacement for the role Titus Young used to fill.

Ness 07-06-2013 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niel89 (Post 3398941)
Stafford is an odd case. He put up 5k and 40+ TDs two years ago and then sucked it up last year. CJ and the sheer number of attempts pumps up his stats and really hurt them last year. I know they don't have the parts to balance out the passing and running yet but they really need to. Such lopsided offense isn't good.

I'm getting visions of Mike Martz syndrome with their offense. Pass, pass, pass. Stafford's arm is going to fall off at this rate. Or he's going to take way too many hits.

Caulibflower 07-06-2013 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness (Post 3398964)
I'm getting visions of Mike Martz syndrome with their offense. Pass, pass, pass. Stafford's arm is going to fall off at this rate. Or he's going to take way too many hits.

I think they'll be more like the Saints when Reggie Bush was playing for them. Joique Bell is a lot like Pierre Thomas, and Mikel LeShoure offers a physical presence around the goal line. They might pass a lot, but it's going to be a lot of short stuff between the targets going to Bush, Bell and Pettigrew.

bucfan12 07-07-2013 12:32 AM

Last tine I checked Reggie bush struggled inside domes. So what makes anyone think it'll change in Detroit ?

Mufasa 07-07-2013 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucfan12 (Post 3399046)
Last tine I checked Reggie bush struggled inside domes. So what makes anyone think it'll change in Detroit ?

When was the last time you checked?


I see no evidence that suggests he struggles in domes.


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