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-   -   Karlos Williams, S, Florida State (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57179)

shylo3716 08-11-2013 11:56 AM

Karlos Williams, S, Florida State
 
Whenever there is topic of discussion for eligible 2014 Safety prospects Clinton-Dix always headlines the talk. Karlos Williams is a SS prospect who I believe is not too far off from becoming a 1st Rounder himself. Hard-hitting is an understatement when it comes to his ability to decleat an opponent. At 6'1'' 230 he is very versatile on the field which is why he is also plugged in as his teams Kick Returner.

Reminds me of LaRon Landry with a Sean Taylor motor


MassNole 08-12-2013 03:44 PM

He will be playing a hybrid role for FSU this year that is package dependent and will go between a LB and Strong Safety (in the traditional sense not Mark Stoops' verbage that flipped FS and SS). Along with that he is a deadly Kick Returner.

shylo3716 08-12-2013 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MassNole (Post 3423853)
He will be playing a hybrid role for FSU this year that is package dependent and will go between a LB and Strong Safety (in the traditional sense not Mark Stoops' verbage that flipped FS and SS). Along with that he is a deadly Kick Returner.

By him playing LB I fear that he may turn into Thomas Davis and get stuck at that position on the next level.

BallerT1215 08-12-2013 04:40 PM

There is no way that he shouldn't have been on the field more last season. I never understood that with Stoops especially since once he put him into more of the rotation towards the end of last season, he was making plays and big hits.

I'm really excited to see him as a full time player in this defense, and I really think people that forgot about him are going to be really surprised by his play this season.

/Homerism.

katnip 08-12-2013 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shylo3716 (Post 3423856)
By him playing LB I fear that he may turn into Thomas Davis and get stuck at that position on the next level.

Or former USC hybrid, Darnell Bing

I hope

shylo3716 08-12-2013 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BallerT1215 (Post 3423884)
There is no way that he shouldn't have been on the field more last season. I never understood that with Stoops especially since once he put him into more of the rotation towards the end of last season, he was making plays and big hits.

I'm really excited to see him as a full time player in this defense, and I really think people that forgot about him are going to be really surprised by his play this season.

/Homerism.

Even if Karlos never played a down how can one forget about him after this.....



TitanHope 08-13-2013 12:00 AM

Loved him coming out of high school, and can't wait to see him play this year. Fudge Ha'Sean Clinton-Dix! #Karlos4Lyfe

Caulibflower 08-13-2013 03:23 AM

He'd be the perfect understudy for Kam Chancellor.

Ozzy 08-14-2013 08:34 AM

Karlos is a very good safey prospect, really impressed with his tape and the toughness he shows. Will have to improve on his coverage however at times, a little stuff and like someone already said he will be playing some linebacker and safety this year. Hope it is not the case where he moves to linebacker like Nick Moody did but we will see.

Clinton-Dix is better in coverage and that is why people have him above a guy like Karlos. As for the Sean Taylor Landry stuff, neither one of these players are even close to that same level in my opinion yet, no real safety is in the nation for that matter.

MassNole 08-15-2013 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozzy (Post 3424893)
Karlos is a very good safey prospect, really impressed with his tape and the toughness he shows. Will have to improve on his coverage however at times, a little stuff and like someone already said he will be playing some linebacker and safety this year. Hope it is not the case where he moves to linebacker like Nick Moody did but we will see.

Clinton-Dix is better in coverage and that is why people have him above a guy like Karlos. As for the Sean Taylor Landry stuff, neither one of these players are even close to that same level in my opinion yet, no real safety is in the nation for that matter.

He was actually Nick Moody's backup at LB and took over for him in the ACCCG. He won't be a pure LB in any sense of the word, instead the plan is to use his athleticism and let him float to create issues in reading a defense and coverage at the snap.

mightytitan9 08-15-2013 11:07 AM

Is that Michael Boulware out there? Seriously, this guy is best advised to move to LBer and stay there. He has a chance to be a great coverage WLB/MLB or he can be an average liability safety unless he vastly improves his coverage

shylo3716 08-15-2013 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightytitan9 (Post 3425606)
Is that Michael Boulware out there? Seriously, this guy is best advised to move to LBer and stay there. He has a chance to be a great coverage WLB/MLB or he can be an average liability safety unless he vastly improves his coverage

What makes you think he can't stick it out at Safety?

I hate Safety to Linebacker transitions

mightytitan9 08-15-2013 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shylo3716 (Post 3425692)
What makes you think he can't stick it out at Safety?

I hate Safety to Linebacker transitions

Just not impressed in his coverage ability. I'm not saying he's a lost cause at safety, he can still develop at FSU but so far not overly impressed

CashmoneyDrew 08-15-2013 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shylo3716 (Post 3425692)
I hate Safety to Linebacker transitions

Why? Worked well for Brian Urlacher and Keith Bulluck.

shylo3716 08-15-2013 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CashmoneyDrew (Post 3425708)
Why? Worked well for Brian Urlacher and Keith Bulluck.

The same reason why I hate Sir Charles Woodson from CB to S move... In my book I believe they are writing you off when they move you.

The Kenny Tate experiment at LB never worked out on the collegiate level. I just hate the idea of moving a physical freak at S to LB.

MassNole 08-15-2013 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightytitan9 (Post 3425606)
Is that Michael Boulware out there? Seriously, this guy is best advised to move to LBer and stay there. He has a chance to be a great coverage WLB/MLB or he can be an average liability safety unless he vastly improves his coverage

He hasn't really played enough to judge his coverage ability. Not a lot was asked of him in then old scheme of coverage but I don't really remember him getting beat deep either. In the new scheme is coverage skills will be put much more to the test and we can get a proper evaluation on him.

shylo3716 08-15-2013 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MassNole (Post 3425755)
He hasn't really played enough to judge his coverage ability. Not a lot was asked of him in then old scheme of coverage but I don't really remember him getting beat deep either. In the new scheme is coverage skills will be put much more to the test and we can get a proper evaluation on him.

I'll give him a pre 2nd Round grade right now.

MassNole 08-15-2013 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shylo3716 (Post 3425732)
The same reason why I hate Sir Charles Woodson from CB to S move... In my book I believe they are writing you off when they move you.

The Kenny Tate experiment at LB never worked out on the collegiate level. I just hate the idea of moving a physical freak at S to LB.

I think a move like Woodson's is completely different than changing positions in college. With the rapid rise of the Spread offense a different type of athlete is now needed on defense. Sort of like the Percy Harvin position at Florida but only on defense. Karlos Williams is a freakish athlete who can fill that exact role which makes defining his position at the next level to be difficult. Honestly I could see him putting his hand on the ground as a pass rusher at times with his size and being able to cause havoc.

I think the best case NFL comparison for him is Carnell Lake.

MassNole 08-15-2013 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shylo3716 (Post 3425760)
I'll give him a pre 2nd Round grade right now.

Looking at the past draft and the value teams put on athleticism over experience or on field production I actually think that is a fair grade right now. Can anyone else think of a tweener LB/S who is also an extremely dangerous kick returner?

This is basically the collegiate description of Brian Urlacher. Now that isn't to say he goes out to be a HOFer, but at this stage that is probably the best comparison and enough for some team to spend a Top 50 pick on him right now.

CashmoneyDrew 08-15-2013 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shylo3716 (Post 3425732)
The same reason why I hate Sir Charles Woodson from CB to S move... In my book I believe they are writing you off when they move you.

The Kenny Tate experiment at LB never worked out on the collegiate level. I just hate the idea of moving a physical freak at S to LB.

Woodson got moved because he's getting old dude. That happens to really good corners.

Kenny Tate didn't work out because of injuries and because he just wasn't that good.

I'm not saying a move would 100% work, but there is precedent that it can work, and it can work very well.

mightytitan9 08-15-2013 04:27 PM

Kenny Tate was just a big softy.

Ozzy 08-15-2013 04:30 PM

With the linebacker safety thing, Brian Urlacher like someone already mentioned, the main success story with that transition. Cato June is another one, he was a legit safety in college, moved to linebacker in the pros and had a great career.

South Carolina does this a lot with their players, guys like Antonio Allen and Darian Stewart played their spur position and both have potential at safety in the NFL. Not great players but are around.

Devonte Holloman the latest spur from South Carolina, he could be an absolute star at linebacker and like many have said it is because of his coverage potential. Was a stud in college and played linebacker a lot their and clearly has the athletic ability. Moving him to safety it would be great but it is a speed issue.


Taylor Mays, not a great college player, underachieved his first few years in the NFL. No one says move him to linebacker. Why? Because he has insane speed, and because of that he can cover and is playing more on more on the Bengals. Eddie Pleasant is doing decent out of Oregon, played a lot of linebacker in college but his speed allows him to play SS.


Guys like Harrison Smith started at linebacker on Notre Dame, but with his speed he can cover. But a guy like Myron Rolle, potential, smart kid but he simply could not run, and was not gifted in terms of toughness to play linebacker.



Back to Karlos, he either can run or he cannot, I think he can though because he does return kicks and should show improved coverage ability when he gets more playing time this season.

BuddyCHRIST 08-17-2013 02:55 PM

The talk about Karlos Williams coverage ability is pure nonsense because he hasn't played enough to even make an evaluation. He was pretty much never in a deep safety look when teams were throwing.

Basically any evaluations you make on him now are based on athleticism, because he simply hasn't played much in a regular position.

He definitely has the speed to play safety as shown by his returns and kick coverage. Safety is a lot about smarts and instincts though so it will be interesting to see how he looks starting next year.

Ozzy 08-17-2013 07:45 PM

Jamarca Sanford is another player, at Ole Miss he was a standout safety as a younger prospect, then they put him at outside linebacker I think. That never worked out great but he was still a good player and possibly they but him back at safety but I cannot remember. Took some time but has worked his way into a starting position at safety now in the NFL for the Vikings. In college though teams will always want to make the defense faster and move a safety down to linebacker to do that, especially if you have depth at safety and not at linebacker.

And it makes sense with all the up temp, spread fast pace offenses.

shylo3716 09-05-2013 07:09 PM

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...os-williams-rb

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- Karlos Williams was projected as a defensive star when he arrived at Florida State as the No. 5 overall recruit in the nation in 2011, but Jimbo Fisher announced Monday that Williams' future would be on offense.

Williams has worked the past two days at running back, Fisher said, and going forward, he expects the move to be permanent.

"He's 6-1, 232 pounds, runs a 10.5 100 meters, an catch, can run, is very natural with the ball in his hand, is physical, fast, learns," Fisher said. "He's doing a really nice job and I think he can provide not just depth there, but he can drive some spark there."

Fisher said the move wasn't based on Williams' struggles at safety, but the reviews of his play were tepid at best. When Lamarcus Joyner moved to corner this offseason, it was widely expected Williams would take over a starting job, but he was unable to lock down the spot on the depth chart during fall camp. Tyler Hunter started Monday's game at safety alongside Terrence Brooks.

Williams' high-water mark on defense came in an emergency stint at linebacker in last year's ACC Championship, when he made 11 tackles and secured a game-clinching interception. He's also starred as a kick returner, but Fisher said he believed Williams' best chance to make a significant impact was at running back. It's a discussion Fisher said they've had before, but Williams finally agreed.

"It's what I think you can be, where I think your best future is, and where you can help this football team," Fisher said. "But if you force somebody to do something they don't want to do, they're not going to be good at it."

Fisher said Williams worked at running back sparingly during fall camp, but he said the junior was "very enthusiastic" about the move.

Fisher said the move was necessitated in part because of a lack of depth at tailback. Redshirt freshman Mario Pender was ruled academically ineligible just before the start of the season, and junior James Wilder Jr. is dealing with a shoulder bruise. Fisher said he doesn't expect Wilder to miss time -- FSU is on a bye this week -- but he said Williams can provide a home-run threat on offense.

"He's very natural with the ball in his hands," Fisher said, "and he can change numbers on the scoreboard."

Williams, whose older brother Vince, a linebacker, was selected in the sixth-round of this year's draft by Pittsburgh Steelers, was a consensus five-star recruit as a safety, but he did occasionally get work at tailback in high school, too. He ran 69 times for 564 yards and seven touchdowns as a senior.


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