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-   -   Is Marvin Lewis's defensive "genius" overrated? (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=692)

bigbluedefense 08-08-2006 01:42 PM

Is Marvin Lewis's defensive "genius" overrated?
 
Im a fan of Marvin Lewis. He is a great head coach. But the question is...is he overrated as a defensive genius? He was the defensive coordinator of the Ravens and led them to incredible success, cementing their legacy as one of the best defenses ever, but since then hes been...well...average at best.

His stint with the Redskins was not special, and now in Cinncy, he's been winning with a high octane offense. His defense in Cinncy has been a joke for the most part. While they show flashes of promise, now with Thuganometry taking over, his team could possibly collapse. Im starting to think that it wasn't necessarilly Marvin Lewis that made the Ravens defense great, but moreso the plethora of talent on the field. After all, the Ravens didn't really throw the playbook at you, they ran a basic scheme and ran it well. So is his defensive "genius" overrated? Or is it too early to make that declaration, and we give him more time?

Smooth Criminal 08-08-2006 01:49 PM

I know Marvin personally since he was a coach in Pittsburgh. He lived in my neighborhood and I went to school with his son. He is a great person but I think he has been overrated as a coach. While he has done great things in Cincy he isn't the genious he is made out to be. I do want to see more from him before I can fully judge his coaching ablilty. I think the Bengals defense was vastly overrated last year because they got alot of lucky turnovers. I don't see them being as good this year as they were last year.

08-08-2006 01:50 PM

The same thing was said about Tony Dungy in Indianapolis for a while but now they're a top 5-10 defense. I'd give him a little more time.

Smooth Criminal 08-08-2006 01:52 PM

Indy does not have a top 10 defense.

XxXdragonXxX 08-08-2006 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
The same thing was said about Tony Dungy in Indianapolis for a while but now they're a top 5-10 defense. I'd give him a little more time.

Indy's defense still isn't that good, they allowed their opponents to complete 67.4% of their passes on them, worst in the league. They also allowed their opponents to gain 4.4 yards per carry on them, 5th worst in the league.

Shiver 08-08-2006 02:02 PM

They padded their defensive rankings versus TERRIBLE offenses. When the Colts played real competition, they were the same old Colts D.

Ravens1991 08-08-2006 02:10 PM

I would love Marvin Lewis as the Ravens head coach, he is a very good coach, maybe he has what I call Brian Billick syndrome, a coordinator that falls into a place with great talent, like Brian Billick with his offense with Minnesota and Marvin with a D like baltimore, either way he is a good coach, maybe the collection of criminals brings a demise to the locker room, you never know.

yourfavestoner 08-08-2006 03:57 PM

Personally, I think he's a much better motivator than strategian.

08-08-2006 04:01 PM

I think he is overrated. His lack of DL talent is absolutely going to kill this team next season.

The Unseen 08-08-2006 04:23 PM

Quote:

Personally, I think he's a much better motivator than strategian.
Agreed.

I disagree that because a scheme is basic it mean that you are not a defensive genius. What if you called a straight-up Cover 2 against an offense on 3rd down and snuffed out the offense's passing play because you predicted it? You're a genius there. You don't have to call a zone blitz with your LE playing "elephant" and your free safety at middle linebacker to be considered a genius, because the offense could tear it up.

There is one thing that Marvin Lewis did schematically that is worthy of note, however. I believe he was the one who would put LaVar Arrington at DE on passing downs, letting him rack up sacks and basically making him who he is today.

Dam8610 08-08-2006 04:26 PM

Give him time to build the defense. He's still dealing with some of the last staff's garbage I'm sure.

08-08-2006 04:28 PM

Brain Billick the "offensive genius" is about 10,000 times more overrated.

johbur 08-08-2006 04:30 PM

Look at what came before Marvin Lewis, though. Isn't it some 15 years of the Bungels? He's done a pretty good job with what he's had. He's not the GM that let Takeo Spikes leave. He's not the GM that brought on Odell Thurman and the rest of the hoodlums. You would think as the coach he approved and disapproved of those guys being brought on, but he is not the GM.

If a guy is supposed to be an offensive/defensive genius, and he goes to a team without the players he wants, if he's a good football mind, he'll make do with what he has. Brian Billick is supposed to be an offensive genius, yet the Ravens have not had a decent offense since he's been there, at least with the pass game. They do have a SB ring, which Billick manufactured with a run game and amazing defense. Go figure. Marvin Lewis looks to me to be as good a Head Coach as Brian Billick, which is to say if he has to do it with offense, that's what he's going to do, until he has the players he wants on defense. He might not have those guys on defense as they'll probably be in jail or banned for drugs. Go Offense!

Ravens1991 08-08-2006 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermaineRace
Brain Billick the "offensive genius" is about 10,000 times more overrated.

agreed, he really just fell into a lucky situation with the front office picking up great players, and Marvin Lewis creating a D that the players fit well in.

pav 08-08-2006 04:49 PM

Marvin Lewis is a great coach. Unfortunately Management is forcing him to make something happen on the field with a bunch of knuckle-heads.

Shiver 08-08-2006 05:03 PM

About every single coach is overrated. It's a players game, plain and simple. Willie McGinnest recently blasted Bill Belichick, how he got all the credit instead of very good players. I agree with him.

DeathbyStat 08-08-2006 05:10 PM

I think that Lewis having a highly explosive offense and a bad defense. Can be compared to Brian Billeck’s situation in Baltimore and how he came to from Minnesota where he oversaw a great offense but his Defense has been the more dominant of the two in Baltimore. At any rate I think the genius of both is over rated. As head coach of their respective teams there could easily take the reigns of play calling for either the offense or the defense and exert their so called genius intellects.

Ravens1991 08-08-2006 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathbyStat
I think that Lewis having a highly explosive offense and a bad defense. Can be compared to Brian Billeck’s situation in Baltimore and how he came to from Minnesota where he oversaw a great offense but his Defense has been the more dominant of the two in Baltimore. At any rate I think the genius of both is over rated. As head coach of their respective teams there could easily take the reigns of play calling for either the offense or the defense and exert their so called genius intellects.


agreed, they fell into good situations with good players, made top Offenses and Defenses, now they get a head coaching job and they arent like that becuase they dont have the good players (well in Billicks situation he is just a bad coach, there needs to be a change in baltimore) I think Marvin Lewis needs some more time.

Geo 08-08-2006 06:03 PM

As a coach, he's very good. As a head coach, he's treading "bad" territory more and more with each passing day thanks to his disgusting personnel decisions and shameful lack of discipline and order.

And I wouldn't consider the label of genius anywhere near the vicinity of Marvin Lewis. That's rubbish.

Greg Williams has created a great defense in Washington, but you wouldn't call him a genius, would you? No, that's asinine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermaineRace
Brain Billick the "offensive genius" is about 10,000 times more overrated.

Dear heavens, yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pav
Marvin Lewis is a great coach. Unfortunately Management is forcing him to make something happen on the field with a bunch of knuckle-heads.

Seriously, who do think has final say on personnel decisions in Cincy? Get a clue.

RCAChainGang 08-08-2006 06:06 PM

I think he is overated on D.


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