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-   -   Proof that ESPN is full of numbskulls (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=898)

ricky bobby 11-08-2006 07:30 AM

Proof that ESPN is full of numbskulls
 
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2652676

Summary
QB rankings

1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Drew Bress

So far so good right? But wait it gets better

4. Philip Rivers - Umm yeaahhh the 4rth best in the league
5. Donovan McNabb
6. Mike Vick - If you took away his mobility, he'd be nothing.
7. Marc Bulger
8. Jake Plummer - Wasn't there a QB controversy a week ago?
9. Carson Palmer
10. Tony Romo - He's looked good in his two starts, but come on get real

They go on to rank all the 32 starting QBs. Asside from a couple players who deserve to be higher, ex. Eli Manning, Damon Huard, Rex Grossman, it's pretty good.

The sportsnation rankings are much more accurate.
http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sport...tranker?id=599

marks01234 11-08-2006 08:10 AM

eh, I wounldn't say they are too far off.

Based on the way everybody is playing right now my list would be very similar. I'd probably have McNabb third though and I agree Romo has no business being on the list.

Rivers is outplaying Palmer this season and at this point should get the third Pro Bowl nomination. Vick and Brees are lighting it up as well.

draftguru151 11-08-2006 08:13 AM

If the rankings are of right now those are pretty accurate. Yea take away Vick's mobility and he is nothing, didn't he have 7 touchdowns the last two weeks before Detroit? :?

Jughead10 11-08-2006 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by draftguru151
If the rankings are of right now those are pretty accurate. Yea take away Vick's mobility and he is nothing, didn't he have 7 touchdowns the last two weeks before Detroit? :?

But what did he do the 6 weeks before that? :?

But that choice doesn't bother me as much as Plummer and Romo being top 10 and Rivers being #4. Rivers should be 9 or 10.

njx9 11-08-2006 08:26 AM

if you took away vicks mobility? well let's take away peyton's right arm, tom brady's entire team, put donovan mcnabb into concrete shoes, etc. that's ridiculous. how are you going to bash a quarterback by taking something away from him without doing the same to every single quarterback in the league?

and no matter how much better he's been lately, jake plummer belongs nowhere near any top ten list.

bsaza2358 11-08-2006 09:16 AM

Not sure who actually made this list, but it's not exactly terrible. I can't argue with Donovan at #5 after his last 3 games. Rivers is pretty underrated. Palmer is not having a great year, and Vick is playing well as of late. Brees would be in my top 5 right now. Plummer is overrated on that chart fo sho!

I wouldn't say this is proof of anything other than that a consensus opinion is hard to find.

ricky bobby 11-08-2006 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9
if you took away vicks mobility? well let's take away peyton's right arm, tom brady's entire team, put donovan mcnabb into concrete shoes, etc. that's ridiculous. how are you going to bash a quarterback by taking something away from him without doing the same to every single quarterback in the league?

and no matter how much better he's been lately, jake plummer belongs nowhere near any top ten list.

Yeah, except that a quarterback is supposed to have good arm. Vick does not. He has good legs, and a very very inconsistant arm. Why would you put a guy that inconsistant into the top 10? You don't know what he will do from week to week. He makes big plays, but takes even bigger losses. I mean, how many QBs have struggled agianst the Lions this year? Vick somehow managed to.

Jughead10 11-08-2006 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricky bobby
Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9
if you took away vicks mobility? well let's take away peyton's right arm, tom brady's entire team, put donovan mcnabb into concrete shoes, etc. that's ridiculous. how are you going to bash a quarterback by taking something away from him without doing the same to every single quarterback in the league?

and no matter how much better he's been lately, jake plummer belongs nowhere near any top ten list.

Yeah, except that a quarterback is supposed to have good arm. Vick does not. He has good legs, and a very very inconsistant arm. Why would you put a guy that inconsistant into the top 10? You don't know what he will do from week to week. He makes big plays, but takes even bigger losses. I mean, how many QBs have struggled agianst the Lions this year? Vick somehow managed to.

In defense of Vick, that scheme gives him problems. The same reason why the Bucs defense has had success against Vick in the past. Marinelli knew how to beat him and they have their Derrick Brooks in Ernie Sims.

Shiver 11-08-2006 09:53 AM

First of all; those rankings are weighted for weekly production and you mis-understood them, good job. :roll:

In defense of Vick, half of his incomplete passes were drops by receivers.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....ap/index.html

Quote:

Vick completed 17 of 32 passes for 163 yards -- numbers that would've been better had teammates not dropped several balls -- with a TD and two interceptions, and he ran for 80 yards. He made a picture-perfect 19-yard pass to Alge Crumpler between two defenders in the end zone.
The actual count was six dropped passes on the day, several of which were drive killers on 3rd down. Even if his receivers only drop half of what they did, i.e about what normal teams do, Vick would've had 62% completion percentage and the offense would've scored a lot more. Even so, his "bad game" wasn't even bad, compared to how Tom Brady and Eli Manning did, statistically, to likewise sorry opposition.

Vick is on pace for:

2,724 Passing Yards
22 Passing Touchdowns
14 Interceptions
6.61 YPA

--

1,152 Rushing Yards
4 Rushing Touchdowns

Those numbers are eerily similar to Randall Cunningham's MVP 1990 season.

As for Philip Rivers, is it possible he could've played any better than he has? Tell me why Rivers shouldn't be considered in the elite class. He's been phenomenal.

TIP 11-08-2006 10:51 AM

Vick has been very good this season, he has been passing very well, so I'm not sure what your logic is?

ricky bobby 11-08-2006 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver
First of all; those rankings are weighted for weekly production and you mis-understood them, good job. :roll:

Explain this then

2. Brady- four interceptions
3. Brees- 136.7 passer rating
5. McNabb - How did he manage to slip in at #5? He had a bye week.

Unless of course Brady managed to get a higher passer rating than brees even with 4 INTs. But in that case he would have to throw like 10 TDs.

Here is my point about Vick.
- He is an athlete who the owner stuck in at QB.
- There are at least 15 QBs in the league that have a better arm than him, and his back-up probably has a better arm than him.
- His running ability suddenly makes him a good quarterback? Then why isn't Pat White from WV considered a good pro prospect?
- Does not have what it takes upstairs to make good decisions on a consistent basis. All defensive Coordinaters have to do is confuse him a little with coverage and he'll try to scramble, and when he played the giants, that resulted in 7 sacks.
- QB's must be smart. Examples of QB's that aren't smart Vick, Culpepper, Ryan Leaf, Vince Young.

GSOT 11-08-2006 01:18 PM

Bulger should be higher IMO

CC.SD 11-08-2006 01:39 PM

Rivers at 4? WTF. Should be higher.




Kidding. But seriously, he's going to win the Superbowl.

Romarville 11-08-2006 02:27 PM

I think it's pretty good. McNabb is too high for a team that's lost 3 in a row. Romo's only played two games. Eli and Huard could move up. Grossman remains to be seen. But other than that, it's about right.

Draft King 11-08-2006 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricky bobby
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiver
First of all; those rankings are weighted for weekly production and you mis-understood them, good job. :roll:

Explain this then

2. Brady- four interceptions
3. Brees- 136.7 passer rating
5. McNabb - How did he manage to slip in at #5? He had a bye week.

Unless of course Brady managed to get a higher passer rating than brees even with 4 INTs. But in that case he would have to throw like 10 TDs.

Here is my point about Vick.
- He is an athlete who the owner stuck in at QB.
- There are at least 15 QBs in the league that have a better arm than him, and his back-up probably has a better arm than him.
- His running ability suddenly makes him a good quarterback? Then why isn't Pat White from WV considered a good pro prospect?
- Does not have what it takes upstairs to make good decisions on a consistent basis. All defensive Coordinaters have to do is confuse him a little with coverage and he'll try to scramble, and when he played the giants, that resulted in 7 sacks.
- QB's must be smart. Examples of QB's that aren't smart Vick, Culpepper, Ryan Leaf, Vince Young.

Ok, I'm sorry, but what the hell are you talking about??? Do you have any idea what you are saying?? You are actually quite possibly the dumbest member on this board right now. Vick's arm is incredible so I don't know where you get that idea from. He has arguably the strongest arm in the league and doesn't even struggle that severly with accuracy, his problems for the past couple of years have to do with his footwork, which he has improved drastically this year with the help of quaterback coach Bill Musgrave. Also your argument of taking away Vick's mobility is completly pathetic, why would you take away the best asset of a great QB?? That's like taking away Peyton's work ethic. If you don't have an argument that you can actually back up don't even try.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf) 11-08-2006 03:15 PM

Well two of you beat me to it but what the hell.

I bet if you took away Jerry Rice's hands he wouldn't be the best WR.

I bet if you took away Orlando Pace's footwork he wouldn't be a great LT.

I bet if you took away Champ Bailey's reaction ability, he wouldnt be the best CB.

I bet if you took away Shaun Rogers' strength, he wouldnt be a dominant DT.

I bet if you took away Peyton Manning's brain he wouldnt be the best.

I bet if you took away Ricky Bobby's brain.... never mind.

dre1614 11-08-2006 03:36 PM

what's wrong with Romo being #10? i think thats pretty accurate

he as of now has a 93.7 QB rating
he as of now has a 64.6 completion %
is averaging 8.24 yards per attempt, 2nd in the league only behind Peyton Manning.

Has got better every game played
73.7 qb rating vs Giants
86.6 qb rating vs Panthers
109.0 qb rating vs Redskins


If it was based on the whole season so far, then he shouldn't be #10 but its based more on week, to week.

11-08-2006 03:37 PM

Only problem I see is that Tony Romo is top 10 after only two good games. You're just mad because Eli isn't up there.

dre1614 11-08-2006 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
Only problem I see is that Tony Romo is top 10 after only two good games. You're just mad because Eli isn't up there.

you guys don't understand its not about who is having the best season, its week to week.

You can't name me 10 QB's who have been better than Romo the last 2 weeks

11-08-2006 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dre1614
Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
Only problem I see is that Tony Romo is top 10 after only two good games. You're just mad because Eli isn't up there.

you guys don't understand its not about who is having the best season, its week to week.

You can't name me 10 QB's who have been better than Romo the last 2 weeks

This is clearly not based off of weekly performance because Tom Brady is #2 after his terrible game on Sunday night.

Basileus777 11-08-2006 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dre1614
Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
Only problem I see is that Tony Romo is top 10 after only two good games. You're just mad because Eli isn't up there.

you guys don't understand its not about who is having the best season, its week to week.

You can't name me 10 QB's who have been better than Romo the last 2 weeks

Thats not the case, else Huard would be on here.

Plummer being on this list is enough to discredit it by itself.

dre1614 11-08-2006 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
Quote:

Originally Posted by dre1614
Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
Only problem I see is that Tony Romo is top 10 after only two good games. You're just mad because Eli isn't up there.

you guys don't understand its not about who is having the best season, its week to week.

You can't name me 10 QB's who have been better than Romo the last 2 weeks

This is clearly not based off of weekly performance because Tom Brady is #2 after his terrible game on Sunday night.


Maybe he takes into account the game flow, because 3 of Brady's int's were tipped.

And also if he ranked a qb #1 one week, and he has a bad week, he isn't all of a sudden going to rank him #30. part of it based on what he has done in the past, but most of it has been weekly production

IMO

dre1614 11-08-2006 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basileus777
Quote:

Originally Posted by dre1614
Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsalltheway
Only problem I see is that Tony Romo is top 10 after only two good games. You're just mad because Eli isn't up there.

you guys don't understand its not about who is having the best season, its week to week.

You can't name me 10 QB's who have been better than Romo the last 2 weeks

Thats not the case, else Huard would be on here.

Plummer being on this list is enough to discredit it by itself.

Maybe he doesn't like Huard as much as Romo, don't know what to say to you there.

Maybe age, and growth has part to do with it also.

ricky bobby 11-08-2006 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft King

Ok, I'm sorry, but what the hell are you talking about??? Do you have any idea what you are saying?? You are actually quite possibly the dumbest member on this board right now. Vick's arm is incredible so I don't know where you get that idea from. He has arguably the strongest arm in the league and doesn't even struggle that severly with accuracy, his problems for the past couple of years have to do with his footwork, which he has improved drastically this year with the help of quaterback coach Bill Musgrave. Also your argument of taking away Vick's mobility is completly pathetic, why would you take away the best asset of a great QB?? That's like taking away Peyton's work ethic. If you don't have an argument that you can actually back up don't even try.

Vicks arm is incredible. Yeah, Incredibly horrible.

Career stats
62 TDs 46 INTs 76.2 rating
This years stats
11 TDs 7 INTS 79.0 rating

After six years in the league, those stats should be getting better, but guess what? they aren't.

Gee what a great arm. Peyton Manning could do that blindfolded, with two broken legs and one arm tied behind his back (his right arm).

Now i know your argument will be either
a. Stats don't matter (It's a classic and it always cracks me up)
b. Look at his rushing numbers (In that case stick him in at RB and let Schaub take over the slinging duties.)

Oh and i forgot to mention his wowing 54.2 % career completion percentage. I'm amazed that you can actually come on here and call me the dumbest poster on this forum. You think that a guy with that kind of completion % has a good arm? And i'm the dumb one? Get real.

There are 26 QBs in the league that have better QB ratings than him this year.

Do I need to argue this point any further? i think not.

njx9 11-08-2006 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricky bobby
Vicks arm is incredible. Yeah, Incredibly horrible.

Career stats
62 TDs 46 INTs 76.2 rating
This years stats
11 TDs 7 INTS 79.0 rating

these stats are not indicative of having a great or poor arm. they're much more indicatve of his ability to read coverage and his receivers ability to catch the ball. the td numbers can also be influenced by the fact that their coach's strategy in the red zone is to pound the ball.


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