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Old 10-18-2010, 08:18 PM    (permalink
badgerbacker
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Default Helmet to Helmet Hits

With the news that the NFL is considering suspending players for helmet to helmet hits, it got me thinking about the topic. I'm all about keeping players safe and don't want to see injuries, but I feel like this is a little extreme. The problem I see is that sometimes it is out of the defender's hands whether or not there is a helmet to helmet collision because it is a pretty common reaction for the offensive player to get low and brace himself for a hit; exposing his head.

I played hockey in high school, and I relate the situation to my coach telling us not to give "sucker passes". The idea is basically not to throw a soft pass ahead of a player which leads him into a charging defenseman who can take his head off. I think the NFL's severe helmet to helmet hit problem stems from this same situation. As the rules change to protect offensive players, it just causes quarterbacks to become more and more comfortable throwing these passes which put receivers in danger.

I obviously know you can't penalize the quarterbacks for making throws, but I really think more responsibility should be given to the teams to protect their own players. Otherwise, we're just going to see defenders playing scared, which is not what I think football is about.

Edit: I could see protecting Quarterbacks who are in the pocket in this situation, since they are basically stationary...
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Old 10-18-2010, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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It is the defender's fault. Everyone goes out there trying to get the highlight reel hits without caring for the repercussions of their hits.
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Old 10-18-2010, 08:40 PM    (permalink
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I think the idea of suspension is dumb. The league already throws out $5,000-$25,000 fines at good solid hits already. That is bogus enough.

Like the OP said, who gets suspended?? The defender for the tackle or the WR for ducking low to brace for impact?? I guarantee it will be the defender, everytime.

I know I am being dramatic but why don't they start fining and penalizing offense players that duck low to brace for impact?? Just because they don't want to get hit in the chest and blown up, they duck low and brace with their head and get concussed?? And then it is the defenders fault??

*Note* I am not saying offensive players should receive any of that.

I am saying helmet to helmet happens in the game of football. Penalize them if you have to with 15 yards. The game is played much too fast to stop and think to yourself, "Oh hey, I'm going to get suspended if I hit this guy coming over the middle. Let me whiff on him because he has his head low or get trucked and he run for a TD. Decisions, decisions."

Dumb.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:23 PM    (permalink
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...I am saying helmet to helmet happens in the game of football...

Dumb.
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When did football stop being a man's sport and start being a sissy-boy's sport? Protect the QB, fine, but let them hit.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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I just watched Maurice Jones-Drew lower his head and truck Steven Tulloch. Suspension? He led with the crown of his head and hit Tulloch right in the mouth. Maybe the NFL should look into that being illegal.



The DeSean Jackson hit had a lot of talk. Zone coverage... 175 pound reciever running a long crossing route, a soft throw that led him directly into the defender... the defender, Dunta Robinson, leads with his shoulder, hit him in the chin and head area and both players get knocked out... who's fault is that? Realistically? The QBs fault for leading him into a defender. People used to call that hanging a receiver out to dry. Now people blamed the defender. I don't get it. It's not the defenders fault, who did his ******* job. To me, that's a good, hard hit. The crown of his helmet actually hit's Jackson's shoulder pad.

You're DeSean Jackson. You are a tiny little bastard that has had injury concerns since you were in college. Don't run across the ******* middle.


Brandon Meriweather's hit on Todd Heap? Call the penalty. That was helmet-to-helmet, he led with the crown of his head and never even hit him with a shoulder. I have no problem with a flag on that. If he keeps doing that and garners a reputation for doing it, then fine him as well as flag him. Suspending him should be a last resort.


The NFL is going to be going around and suspending players for hard hits.




James Harrison's hits? I don't even know why the hit on Cribbs is getting any kind of attention... maybe because he got hurt? Cribbs is a runner and lowered his head... Harrison did the same thing. It is perfectly legal. The rate the NFL is going... it will be illegal within the next 2 years to have any kind of helmet contact with an opponent. And I can't believe I watch Around the Horn and they ask the question, "Should they play without helmets?" I can't believe I heard that. I **** you not, they asked that question with a straight face. ******* morons.

The hit on the receiver, that will be a fine without question. Why? Pretty simple. The player got injured. Harrison was flying in the air after he knocked him out. And the NFL needs to fill their pocket with money. Thank God there wasn't a flag. There was nothing to flag Harrison about on the play. The receiver knew he was running through a zone and even looked up to turn his head around (he knew he was going to get hit), which is why he dropped the ball (took his eyes off it). Therefore, the receiver was not defenseless and had time to brace himself. Harrison came up and led with his shoulder pad and blew the play up. He's 260 pounds. The receiver is going to feel that hit. Will he be suspended? I highly doubt it, but he will be fined for the completely legal hit. They will say he "launched" himself and therefore, illegal, which will somehow justify their fine. But the NFL is turning into one of the biggest jokes in all of sports.

This play was pretty much the same situation as DeSean Jackson. A receiver running through a zone and a QB hanging him out to dry. The only difference, this receiver had the awareness that he was running through a zone. Jackson had no idea a defender was in the area until he had a shoulder pad in his mouth.

I did see one thing that made me think a suspension should be applied from this past week:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...y-is-not-happy

Look at Tom Brady bitching to the ******* umpire about a no call on a perfectly legal hit. I'm so sick of him turning and yelling at a referee evey time a defender comes with arms reach of him. He should be suspended for at lest 4 games. That is a more horrific act than Big Ben raping 13 girls in 1 week span.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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When did football stop being a man's sport and start being a sissy-boy's sport? Protect the QB, fine, but let them hit.
Why protect the QB and not the other players?

Moreover, OP, why would a QB feel comfortable putting his teammate, who he relies upon and works with everyday, in harms way as a result of this rule?
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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Why protect the QB and not the other players?

Moreover, OP, why would a QB feel comfortable putting his teammate, who he relies upon and works with everyday, in harms way as a result of this rule?
I'm okay with protecting the QB to a degree, for the reason the OP stated. He is sitting in the pocket, standing tall. I think the rules of protecting the QB should be dialed down a ton as well though.

As soon as the QB leaves the pocket, I think all bets should be off, he is scrambling a.k.a. running and should be allowed to be blasted as such, even when behind the line.
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:11 PM    (permalink
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I'm okay with protecting the QB to a degree, for the reason the OP stated. He is sitting in the pocket, standing tall. I think the rules of protecting the QB should be dialed down a ton as well though.

As soon as the QB leaves the pocket, I think all bets should be off, he is scrambling a.k.a. running and should be allowed to be blasted as such, even when behind the line.
The way they tried to do that is bad. Anytime someone touches the QBs helmet is too far. So often a defender just taps the QB and gets the 15 yard penalty.

I am for penalties against purposely going after another players helmet with your helmet, but I would hate it if any helmet to helmet contact became a penalty.
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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I think the idea of suspension is dumb. The league already throws out $5,000-$25,000 fines at good solid hits already. That is bogus enough.

Dumb.
These types of hits (using the rock-hard shell helmet as a weapon) are wreckless, dangerous, and cowardly.

These DBs and LBs think they're so tough with those rock shells, using them as weapons all the time. I have no respect for anyone who leads with their heads.

I've been bitching about these hits for a long time, whether it's a guy helmet to helmet on a QB, nailing a defenseless receiver, or the DBs who come in late to a pile and stick their helmet into the ribs or shoulder of a RB who's already going down.

Rodney Harrison was spot-on last night saying the fines MEAN S***! They don't deter anyone from doing those wicked things. But suspensions DO. So there you go.

There are 2 ways to stop those unnecessary, violent hits:
#1- Heavy suspensions, as the Around the Horn guys said today, and Rodney said last night.
#2- Make the players go back to the old days with leather helmets. Let's see how many times Brandon Meriweather, James Harrison, and Dontay (Dunta) Robinson lead with their heads again for kill shots. I guarantee it won't be more than one time.

I love this game, but the worst thing about it is because of the equipment, the size and speed of the guys, and the more "jacked-up" violent nature of players, there are more injuries than there need to be. I know there are going to be injuries (I'm a Packer fan so I know), but there are ways to cut some of them down. The NFL and NFLPA need to cut down wherever they can. These are one area they need to put some teeth in the rules. Now.
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Old 10-18-2010, 11:22 PM    (permalink
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These types of hits (using the rock-hard shell helmet as a weapon) are wreckless, dangerous, and cowardly.

These DBs and LBs think they're so tough with those rock shells, using them as weapons all the time. I have no respect for anyone who leads with their heads.

I've been bitching about these hits for a long time, whether it's a guy helmet to helmet on a QB, nailing a defenseless receiver, or the DBs who come in late to a pile and stick their helmet into the ribs or shoulder of a RB who's already going down.

Rodney Harrison was spot-on last night saying the fines MEAN S***! They don't deter anyone from doing those wicked things. But suspensions DO. So there you go.

There are 2 ways to stop those unnecessary, violent hits:
#1- Heavy suspensions, as the Around the Horn guys said today, and Rodney said last night.
#2- Make the players go back to the old days with leather helmets. Let's see how many times Brandon Meriweather, James Harrison, and Dontay (Dunta) Robinson lead with their heads again for kill shots. I guarantee it won't be more than one time.

I love this game, but the worst thing about it is because of the equipment, the size and speed of the guys, and the more "jacked-up" violent nature of players, there are more injuries than there need to be. I know there are going to be injuries (I'm a Packer fan so I know), but there are ways to cut some of them down. The NFL and NFLPA need to cut down wherever they can. These are one area they need to put some teeth in the rules. Now.
You are acting like Eric Smith just broke Anquan Boldin's jaw. "These hits." The days of Ryan Clark leading with his head, Eric Smith breaking Boldin's jaw are pretty much over. "These hits" that have players launching and leading with the crown of their helmet are not happening and it only happened once this past week. WTF are you talking about? The fines and penalties have trained defenders to lead with their shoulder. And thats what defenders are doing... leading with their shoulder pad. And people still ***** and moan about helmets and defenseless receivers.

Defenders are trained to be instinctive. It's why they watch film. They are trained to break up passes. They are trained to hit with their shoulders. And thats what the great majority of them are doing. The NFL is demanding that receivers be given ample time to catch the ball and then take a step or two (not really sure) before being hit. So basically, any time a defender has a pass thrown to him in the end zone, the defender is supposed to go for the INT or give up. It's a joke.
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Old 10-18-2010, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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Dont go across that middle if you dont wanna get decapitated by James Harrison.
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Old 10-18-2010, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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Players go low in football. When you get low your body turns more horizontal causing your head to be in front. Helmet to helmet is unavoidable when the ball carrier also goes low. Better helmets is the only way to stop concussions.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:00 PM    (permalink
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NFL can't complain about helmet to helmet hits and trying to protect players/stop injuries if they are going to increase the season to 18 games.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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NFL can't complain about helmet to helmet hits and trying to protect players/stop injuries if they are going to increase the season to 18 games.
Yep. This is one of the first things I thought of.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:56 PM    (permalink
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NFL can't complain about helmet to helmet hits and trying to protect players/stop injuries if they are going to increase the season to 18 games.
I agree. However, they make more money with an 18 game season. And the NFL is a business.
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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Nobody can say with a straight face that the hit Brandon Meriweather put on Todd Heap yesterday was accidential. Meriweather should absolutely be suspended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb1CmHk9GK0
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:05 PM    (permalink
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Nobody can say with a straight face that the hit Brandon Meriweather put on Todd Heap yesterday was accidential. Meriweather should absolutely be suspended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb1CmHk9GK0
Cleaning it up to say to guys 'Look, we are making it less likely you get hurt. Give us more games/money and we will continue to protect you to the extreme.'

While they are at it they will also soon throw in more rules to stop defenses from being able to stop offenses and resort to the CFL plan of defenders needing to be at least 1 yard off the ball at the line of scrimmage...anything for more yards right?

*note this isn't the quote i meant to do....but i'm too lazy to switch it.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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I see no problem with suspensions at all. Were talking 20 some year olds who can get paralysed and 1 just did this weekend. The fines these guys get are pocket change that have no effect. Some of these hits are malicious and could be avoided. Some are unintentional but really its not like we see 56764 a game just a few over the season. Footballs a violent game and things happen. Not every helmet to helmet hit deserves a suspension but a few do. Just as long as the NFL doesn't go to crazy with suspensions.
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by PackerLegend View Post
I see no problem with suspensions at all. Were talking 20 some year olds who can get paralysed and 1 just did this weekend. The fines these guys get are pocket change that have no effect. Some of these hits are malicious and could be avoided. Some are unintentional but really its not like we see 56764 a game just a few over the season. Footballs a violent game and things happen. Not every helmet to helmet hit deserves a suspension but a few do. Just as long as the NFL doesn't go to crazy with suspensions.
It's one thing if a helmet to helmet is unavoidable, but it's completelty different when a player like Brandon Meriweather launches himself right into Todd Heap's helmet.
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by PackerLegend View Post
I see no problem with suspensions at all. Were talking 20 some year olds who can get paralysed and 1 just did this weekend. The fines these guys get are pocket change that have no effect. Some of these hits are malicious and could be avoided. Some are unintentional but really its not like we see 56764 a game just a few over the season. Footballs a violent game and things happen. Not every helmet to helmet hit deserves a suspension but a few do. Just as long as the NFL doesn't go to crazy with suspensions.

Couldn't have put it any better.
The NFL should suspend players more often for helmet-to-helmet hits, than they already do. IE: Meriweather and his cheap hit on Heap. Suspend the players for blatantly intentional hits, NOT for the accidental, freak ones (the one on Boldin last season, or the season before)
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bills2083 View Post
Couldn't have put it any better.
The NFL should suspend players more often for helmet-to-helmet hits, than they already do. IE: Meriweather and his cheap hit on Heap. Suspend the players for blatantly intentional hits, NOT for the accidental, freak ones (the one on Boldin last season, or the season before)
I'm for this, you can tell he went for a helmet to helmet hit...he had time to react. But someone like Harrison who is moving fast and doesn't have time to react when the offensive player puts his head down, will get suspended also. To much gray area.

Is drop kicking legal for a tackle? The defense should just let WR score and catch at will and not try and tackle anyone other than a running play(rb, wildcat). Sort of a way to protest, during the game. Both side of course, also scores will run into the 50s.
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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I'm for this, you can tell he went for a helmet to helmet hit...he had time to react. But someone like Harrison who is moving fast and doesn't have time to react when the offensive player puts his head down, will get suspended also. To much gray area.

Is drop kicking legal for a tackle? The defense should just let WR score and catch at will and not try and tackle anyone other than a running play(rb, wildcat). Sort of a way to protest, during the game. Both side of course, also scores will run into the 50s.
The NFL absolutely loved what it saw during the GB/AZ playoff game last year.

I thought it was a disgusting attempt at "defense" by both teams and neither one deserved to win that game.

That's what you're going to start seeing more of, though.
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Old 10-19-2010, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bills2083 View Post
Couldn't have put it any better.
The NFL should suspend players more often for helmet-to-helmet hits, than they already do. IE: Meriweather and his cheap hit on Heap. Suspend the players for blatantly intentional hits, NOT for the accidental, freak ones (the one on Boldin last season, or the season before)
Totally agree. I think the number of suspensions will be very small. As for Meriweather the policy should be retroactive and he should be sat down. I'm a former season ticket holder for the Pats but i cant condone that garbage. As for it changing the way defenders tackle that's BS. There isnt a coach out there at any level that teaches helmet to helmet tackling.
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Old 10-19-2010, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
Totally agree. I think the number of suspensions will be very small. As for Meriweather the policy should be retroactive and he should be sat down. I'm a former season ticket holder for the Pats but i cant condone that garbage. As for it changing the way defenders tackle that's BS. There isnt a coach out there at any level that teaches helmet to helmet tackling.
No but form tackling can lead to alot of helmet helmet contact if the ball carrier lowers his head.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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Their are some spots where a defender purposely goes for helmet to helmet. Some spots when a receiver goes in the air and the defender can clearly line him up he goes for the helmet with his helmet instead of with his shoulder.

Many other instances it just happens without the defender intending it.

If a player purposely tries to give another player a concussion that shouldn't be allowed.
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