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Old 11-22-2011, 05:00 PM    (permalink
Buc Baller12
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Default Is Vontaze Burfict Overrated?

mind you; i was a big Burfict fan before the year started; but after watching him play this year i am a bit skeptical; i had him graded as a early 1st rounder but at best i see him as a mid 1st from that 17-20 range. I love the nasty demanor but he needs to learn how to control himself; he needs a fine coach in the pros. From what i have seen he plays undiscplined poor gap control; always out of place; roams around too much
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Old 11-22-2011, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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We want him!!!!



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Old 11-22-2011, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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This is already a thread, use your search function and bump it.
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Miller is visual sex on the field.
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Old 11-22-2011, 10:48 PM    (permalink
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anybody that gets called ray lewis is overated
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:10 AM    (permalink
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anybody that gets called ray lewis is overated
YES!!!!!!!
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Old 11-23-2011, 07:08 AM    (permalink
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anybody that gets called ray lewis is overated
Unless you're reading a Patrick Willis scouting report from 2006-2007

;P
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Old 11-23-2011, 07:40 AM    (permalink
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Yup, he is a hard hitting walking 15 yd penalty with a weird name that attracts attention.
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Old 11-23-2011, 08:10 AM    (permalink
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Yup, he is a hard hitting walking 15 yd penalty with a weird name that attracts attention.
Alright, since we aren't bumping the other thread I'll give my .02:

If you go by standards of people calling him the next Ray Lewis, then yes, he's overrated. This isn't a knock on him though; it's similar to how people are calling Luck a sure fire HoF. There is just no way to know if Taze will live up to the Ray Lewis billing.

However, Taze is much more than a hard hitting walking 15 yard penalty. He is probably one of the more technically sound ILB in this class, great ability shedding blocks and moving through traffic. Is extremely quick into the backfield when called on to blitz. He does have solid tackling technique despite his hard hitting ways. Amazing side-line to side-line speed. Awesome instincts. Solid enough for an ILB in coverage. EXTREMELY ATHLETIC, absolutely a top physical specimen in this draft.

Yes he has caused penalties but for every dumb penalty he makes he gets one for reputation alone. Overall, if you DON'T want Taze on your team, your a fool
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Miller is visual sex on the field.

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Old 11-23-2011, 08:12 AM    (permalink
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I'd take Keuchly over Burfict. Burfict does make some impact plays but he doesn't play very disciplined football. Also, he has not lived up to the hype around him.
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Old 11-23-2011, 04:18 AM    (permalink
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He might be, but you can't deny his talent. I wouldn't mind us drafting him and have him play over Spikes or even converting Taze to OLB. The guy can play and I love his demeanor on the field.
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Old 11-23-2011, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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It seems like any good player from a known school will eventually be overrated because of the ease of access to scouting reports and the voice that the internet gives to anybody that wants to spout off with his opinion.
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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Part of me is skewed because I am enthralled with his nasty demeanor, unrelenting pursuit, instincts, and intensity to throw his body through the OL/blocker.

When he is not making the tackle, most of the time he is involved. Runners avoid running through his gap and he also uses the blocker to seal off running lanes, appearing blocked but maintaining his gap.

However, he has some faults. He does play too wild as most have mentioned and looks like he abandons some responsibilities. IMO he is only average in coverage, but I live on the east coast so I do not get to see much. He doesn't wrap up often, goes for big hits ALL THE TIME. He needs to become a tad more disciplined. We want controlled chaos, he isn't even remotely there yet.

As far as character concerns, I have not heard anything off the field. On the field it is clear that referees have a bias against him due to his track record of cheap hits, nastiness, and probably opposing players/coaches complaining. He may have a screw loose, but sometimes you need one of those on your team in order to get fired up.

All in all, I would pick him first among the linebackers in this draft because of his ability to be an X factor. Kuechly and Te'o are both very good players, but i have not seen the kind of fire i see in Burfict in them.
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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Awesome instincts. Solid enough for an ILB in coverage.
I really disagree with these. I think his instincts suck. I think he freelances and often ignores his gap assignments. I also think he's often disinterested in coverage.
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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I really disagree with these. I think his instincts suck. I think he freelances and often ignores his gap assignments. I also think he's often disinterested in coverage.
Farthest thing from the truth, go watch the tape I just posted, he maintains his gaps on every play makes form tackles and pushes piles.

As far as pass coverage, again watch the tape he maintains his zones and does not bight on pass coverage. He reads the QB's eyes and moves to where the ball is thrown before its even released.
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Miller is visual sex on the field.
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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I think he has the ability to do very well at ILB at the next level, but he's still a little overrated as his wild/crazy side tends to draw attention (both positive and negative).

I think he'd do best going to a team that has strong defensive leadership that can instill some discipline and focus his intensity.
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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I think he has the ability to do very well at ILB at the next level, but he's still a little overrated as his wild/crazy side tends to draw attention (both positive and negative).

I think he'd do best going to a team that has strong defensive leadership that can instill some discipline and focus his intensity.
He may still be overrated, but it's not to say that he isn't good as others would imply. I think he's still a solid first round pick, would love to get him on the Ravens, if it were the case he might actually live up to the Ray Lewis hype as he would be getting schooled by the Reverend Ray Lewis himself
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Miller is visual sex on the field.
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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Here you go Big Banger



Snap #1 Burfict gets in position to make the tackle and then pushes the pile when other tacklers latch on to the runner. Exactly what you want your 3-4 ILB to do.

Snap #2 gets in the lane and hits the runner low, runner gets away but is off balance and goes down shortly after

Snap #3 Gets of the blocker with ease and attempts to go low, misses a tackle here.

Snap # 4 gets by blocker and positions himself for tackle, doesn't over pursue makes gang tackle.

Through all of these he has gone low and attempted to make the tackle instead of going for the big hit, he squares up and makes the tackle.

Snap #5 get blocked low and goes down

Snap #6 doesn't bite on pump fake sees the screen play, gets off the blocker and would have blown up the screen play had the player actually caught the ball.

Snap #7 shows patients and squares up the runner to make the form tackle

Fg attempt, goes offsides.

Snap #8 Team gets a sack

Snap #9 gets off blocker and moves through traffic to tackle the runner

Snap #10 does not bight on pass action and maintains his zone

Snap #11 gets off the block but the runner is by him to the other side

Snap #12 shows patience and seals the cut back, squaring up and making the tackle

Snap #13 gets off his blocker, credited with tackle as the runner trips up (Still would have been in position)

Snap #14 makes the pre snap read, gets off the chip to his underneath zone and makes the athletic play to get the interception returns ball for about 35 yards

Then that maniac helps Barkley to his feet, omg so crazy

Snap #15 maintains a zone reads QB's eyes and moves into position to make the tackle on the receiver

Snap #16 comes through unblocked with a burst into the backfield and makes the gang tackle, pushes the pile.

Snap #17 does not bit on play action and makes the tackle on the receiver

Snap #18 after the catch takes appropriate angle on receiver to make the tackle

Snap #19 gets off blocker but fails to get there in time to make the tackle

Snap #20 gets blocked while trying to make the tackle

Snap #21 stuffs the gap and the run play ends.

Snap #22 gets off the blocker and stone walls the runner at the goal line

Snap #23 gets off the block a little late but still makes the tackle, could have made it earlier if he had been able to disengage sooner

Snap #24 fills the gap but runner cuts back to the outside

Snap #25 plays his zone makes tackle on the receiver after the catch.

Snap # 26 gets held could have made the play on the ball

Snap #27 reads the gets a little hindered by the low block but gets off it, incomplete pass

Do you want to waste any more of my time or do you feel sufficiently foolish?
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Miller is visual sex on the field.

Last edited by Sloopy : 11-23-2011 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 11-25-2011, 11:13 PM    (permalink
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Of course I'll preface this with the insanity of just looking at one game.

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Here you go Big Banger

I can't help but point out some of the uploader comments... I'm assuming he's watched Burfict play, although I guess it's possible he put together the vid with his eyes closed or something.

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Honestly I dont see him coming out this year. His draft stock is way down. he is having a terrible season
Quote:
Maybe his tape is awful
Quote:
His instincts are sub par and he is over aggresive. He over runs plays and he misreads a great deal of whats in front of him. I really thought as he got in the film room more his play recognition would improve but it looks worse this year then last
Quote:
Yeah I havent liked his tape this year. Ive broken down 2 games and both have been subpar
Here are the plays where I disagree with you.

Quote:
Snap #11 gets off the block but the runner is by him to the other side
This is because he missed his gap. #21 had this area covered but Burfict followed leaving the middle open for a big gain.

Quote:
Snap #17 does not bit on play action and makes the tackle on the receiver
... after he made a 15 yard catch in Burfict's zone.

Quote:
Snap #19 gets off blocker but fails to get there in time to make the tackle
Left his gap open again.

Quote:
Snap #25 plays his zone makes tackle on the receiver after the catch.
You really can't give him credit for playing his zone when a receiver makes a 13 yard catch in it.

Quote:
Do you want to waste any more of my time or do you feel sufficiently foolish?
This is just sad mr. message board hero.

Then watch his Illinois and Oregon vids and he's even worse than this.
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Old 11-25-2011, 11:43 PM    (permalink
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He isn't as overrated as Andrew Luck at least.
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Old 11-26-2011, 09:03 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TheSlinger View Post
Of course I'll preface this with the insanity of just looking at one game.
I'm not going to sit here and dissect multiple tapes of a guy for YOUR convenience so that I can prove YOU wrong. I put up a tape of him against one of the best teams he has played this year. If you wan't to try and prove ME wrong, why don't you waste your own time and find your own tape of him and get back to me with it, I'm not going to do your work for you Mr. Awful.






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This is because he missed his gap. #21 had this area covered but Burfict followed leaving the middle open for a big gain.
Like I said he got off the block but to the wrong side.


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... after he made a 15 yard catch in Burfict's zone.
He had a middle zone and the throw was in between, the corner doesn't give him any help and he runs there as the ball is thrown not giving up any more yardage, sorry the ILB prospect isn't a safety.

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Left his gap open again.
no no and no, the line blocks left and he fights through the block. The OLB tries to seal the edge but gets blocked out, Burfict just can't recover fast enough to make the play on the ball.


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You really can't give him credit for playing his zone when a receiver makes a 13 yard catch in it.
The guy gets jammed to the inside to him. and again thrown in between his zone, still he makes the tackle before any extra yardage is gained.


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This is just sad mr. message board hero.

Then watch his Illinois and Oregon vids and he's even worse than this.
So what you are telling me is that out of 27 plays or so, he makes 2-3 mistakes? BUST!!!!!

you act like the other top ILB prospects are insanely better than him and never make a mistake. Pretty poor argument

I didn't catch the Illinois game but I think he did pretty well against Oregon. However if you would like to pull up the video's and do your own analysis I would be happy to give you my thoughts on them, but I'm not going to do your work for you.
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Old 11-29-2011, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by sweater-vest_mafia View Post
Here you go Big Banger



Snap #1 Burfict gets in position to make the tackle and then pushes the pile when other tacklers latch on to the runner. Exactly what you want your 3-4 ILB to do.

Snap #2 gets in the lane and hits the runner low, runner gets away but is off balance and goes down shortly after

Snap #3 Gets of the blocker with ease and attempts to go low, misses a tackle here.

Snap # 4 gets by blocker and positions himself for tackle, doesn't over pursue makes gang tackle.

Through all of these he has gone low and attempted to make the tackle instead of going for the big hit, he squares up and makes the tackle.

Snap #5 get blocked low and goes down

Snap #6 doesn't bite on pump fake sees the screen play, gets off the blocker and would have blown up the screen play had the player actually caught the ball.

Snap #7 shows patients and squares up the runner to make the form tackle

Fg attempt, goes offsides.

Snap #8 Team gets a sack

Snap #9 gets off blocker and moves through traffic to tackle the runner

Snap #10 does not bight on pass action and maintains his zone

Snap #11 gets off the block but the runner is by him to the other side

Snap #12 shows patience and seals the cut back, squaring up and making the tackle

Snap #13 gets off his blocker, credited with tackle as the runner trips up (Still would have been in position)

Snap #14 makes the pre snap read, gets off the chip to his underneath zone and makes the athletic play to get the interception returns ball for about 35 yards

Then that maniac helps Barkley to his feet, omg so crazy

Snap #15 maintains a zone reads QB's eyes and moves into position to make the tackle on the receiver

Snap #16 comes through unblocked with a burst into the backfield and makes the gang tackle, pushes the pile.

Snap #17 does not bit on play action and makes the tackle on the receiver

Snap #18 after the catch takes appropriate angle on receiver to make the tackle

Snap #19 gets off blocker but fails to get there in time to make the tackle

Snap #20 gets blocked while trying to make the tackle

Snap #21 stuffs the gap and the run play ends.

Snap #22 gets off the blocker and stone walls the runner at the goal line

Snap #23 gets off the block a little late but still makes the tackle, could have made it earlier if he had been able to disengage sooner

Snap #24 fills the gap but runner cuts back to the outside

Snap #25 plays his zone makes tackle on the receiver after the catch.

Snap # 26 gets held could have made the play on the ball

Snap #27 reads the gets a little hindered by the low block but gets off it, incomplete pass

Do you want to waste any more of my time or do you feel sufficiently foolish?
Oh, did I ask you to look up a highlight video of Burfict on YouTube and tell me his involvement in the 27 plays of said highlight video? But if you feel you wasted your time, which you did, then I'd say that you are one pathetic loser.

Feeling foolish? I don't know how you can honestly believe you have proved anything. I stopped reading when you said, "does not bight". I assume you meant "bite." But anyway, awful post. I award you no points.
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Old 11-29-2011, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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Oh, did I ask you to look up a highlight video of Burfict on YouTube and tell me his involvement in the 27 plays of said highlight video? But if you feel you wasted your time, which you did, then I'd say that you are one pathetic loser.

Feeling foolish? I don't know how you can honestly believe you have proved anything. I stopped reading when you said, "does not bight". I assume you meant "bite." But anyway, awful post. I award you no points.
It's not a highlight video, it's every snap that he played in the game against USC.

I was using it to respond to this ignorant post:

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Originally Posted by BigBanger View Post
You gave your two cents earlier and provided nothing to support your claims that he's good at anything you mentioned. Those were blanket statements that appear to be false. Yet you pass them off as fact. Take a bit of your own advice and try to be a little less biased.
You said they appear to be false and that I wasn't providing any support for them so I pulled up two different games with which to prove my point.

The fact of the matter is that you have yet to give any opinion on the matter while I gave my opinion. You claimed that I didn't support it well enough so I brought in video to prove my point.

Meanwhile, what have you done in this forum? Have you brought evidence to prove your point or prove me wrong? have you even brought your thoughts forward?

So far I've done more to prove my point than those of you that have come in without even having a point.

you may award me no points, but I award you this



My official troll stamp of approval, congratulations sir... wear it well
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Miller is visual sex on the field.

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Old 11-30-2011, 01:14 AM    (permalink
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It's not a highlight video, it's every snap that he played in the game against USC.
Wouldn't know. Didn't watch the game and didn't watch the highlight video. To do a video in about 5 minutes, he must be on the bench for quite some time in that game. I know he's less than mediocre against the pass, and a liability for the next level, but if he's seeing less than 30 snaps a game (according to you) ... then does that give you pause for concern?

I watched the 4th QT of the Arizona St game last week and the only LB I saw that looked any good was #6. Burfict wasn't even in the game. Someone said he was benched in this thread (conveniently overlooked by you), but I don't know if they sat him the whole game, halfway through or what the circumstances were. I know I didn't see him at all in the 4th QT. I was drinking at a sports bar and could not even tell you who they played.

I've already discussed Burfict in other Burfict related threads. My opinion on him has not really changed.

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/show...38#post2594938

We all get that he's your favorite player, we get it, but don't expect that your are going to impose your will upon anyway by saying he's all world at everything he does. He has flaws. Accept them and move on. You're not going to convince anyone of anything, and when you don't back it up with anything (no, posting a highlight video does not count), then there's no point in looking stupid by bitching at other posters. Just let it go.
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:09 AM    (permalink
Sloopy
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Wouldn't know. Didn't watch the game and didn't watch the highlight video. To do a video in about 5 minutes, he must be on the bench for quite some time in that game. I know he's less than mediocre against the pass, and a liability for the next level, but if he's seeing less than 30 snaps a game (according to you) ... then does that give you pause for concern?
He is no more of a liability against the pass than most ILB in this game. Kuechly might have an edge on him against the pass in this class but he's not terrible against it by any stretch. His snaps per game is because I'm pretty sure that like most ILB, he does not see snaps in obvious passing situations or while the team is in certain packages.

Quote:
I watched the 4th QT of the Arizona St game last week and the only LB I saw that looked any good was #6. Burfict wasn't even in the game. Someone said he was benched in this thread (conveniently overlooked by you), but I don't know if they sat him the whole game, halfway through or what the circumstances were. I know I didn't see him at all in the 4th QT. I was drinking at a sports bar and could not even tell you who they played.
Yes someone did mention his benching, I am not going to claim to be knowledgeable of it though as I am not. I can assume that it has something to do with the penalties, but that would just be me assuming.

Quote:
I've already discussed Burfict in other Burfict related threads. My opinion on him has not really changed.
I was in this same boat, I am really tired of guys like JBCX claiming things in threads then not backing them up when people appose them, just to post it in another thread.

Quote:
We all get that he's your favorite player, we get it, but don't expect that your are going to impose your will upon anyway by saying he's all world at everything he does. He has flaws. Accept them and move on. You're not going to convince anyone of anything, and when you don't back it up with anything (no, posting a highlight video does not count), then there's no point in looking stupid by bitching at other posters. Just let it go.
My favorite player in this draft actually happens to be Mike Adams... I never said he was all world he has flaws like the boneheaded penalties which I acknowledged as well as the fact that he isn't a beast in coverage (just that he isn't that much worse than anyone else in this draft and probably better than some)

You don't have to accept my beliefs on the subject, there are plenty on this board that do, but to say I didn't back it up is asinine. You claimed that I was making blanket statements about the guy so I pulled out video's of some of his games (no they are not highlight videos as much as you would like them to be, they aren't a series of singular plays from different games with cool music to make him look badass).

Actually, if anyone hasn't backed up what they are saying, it's you...

You say he is less than mediocre against the pass: Where is your proof? Your just making blanket statements and not backing them up.

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Burfict wont be a first round pick, and if he is, it'll be based all on potential. I have no idea what is going on in this thread. The kid from BC is far superior. #40, someone mentioned him but I'm too lazy to look it up and it's hard to pronounce, but he has much better instincts, a much better motor and plays sideline-to-sideline. Also much smarter with better instincts and technique. Lacks the size, strength and physicality of Burfict though and struggles at times disengaging from blockers. Not as much upside or potential
Okay... where is your proof?

I can make the same asinine comments you can. Go ahead say I didn't back it up, but I have done more to do so than you have.

Sorry if you think I'm bitching, I was accused of not backing up my argument and went to great lengths to do so, now I'm gunna call you out when you don't back yours up.

Now this is the last time I'm gunna feed you
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Old 11-24-2011, 09:33 AM    (permalink
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He may not be Ray Lewis, but his ability to blow up a play will help defenses get off the field at the next level. He should be a difference maker and fall somewhere between Brian Cox and Ray Lewis.
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