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Old 03-14-2012, 11:04 PM    (permalink
pappanorm
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Default BROWNS: Weeden An Upgrade Over McCoy?

Right now there is no quarteback competition in Cleveland.
I am convinced that the Browns will try to land Weeden with the #37 pick in Round 2 to compete with McCoy and ultimately be the starting QB.

Not much of a gamble and it buys the BROWNS time to continue the hunt for a franchise QB in next years's draft.
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:23 PM    (permalink
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How is taking a 29 year old in the EARLY 2nd round not a risk? By the time Weeden figures out how to throw anything but sideline screens, he's going to be 32 and you'll be looking for the next guy. He missed 6 years of Football to play baseball for F$%# Sake!
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:30 PM    (permalink
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How is taking a 29 year old in the EARLY 2nd round not a risk? By the time Weeden figures out how to throw anything but sideline screens, he's going to be 32 and you'll be looking for the next guy. He missed 6 years of Football to play baseball for F$%# Sake!
weeden is good enough to compete with colt mccoy for the starting qb
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:44 AM    (permalink
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weeden is good enough to compete with colt mccoy for the starting qb
Colt McCoy is an NFL backup, so if Weeden doesn't win that job running away, he should be passed on.

The team that takes him before the 4th round is full of idiots.

Granted, McCoy is the perfect career backup and Weeden is a few years from being out of the league.
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:46 AM    (permalink
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Colt McCoy is an NFL backup, so if Weeden doesn't win that job running away, he should be passed on.

The team that takes him before the 4th round is full of idiots.

Granted, McCoy is the perfect career backup and Weeden is a few years from being out of the league.
I agree with this. Both are not NFL Caliber starters.
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Old 03-15-2012, 02:26 AM    (permalink
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If we get a QB I sure hope it isn't Weeden.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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Colt McCoy is an NFL backup, so if Weeden doesn't win that job running away, he should be passed on.

The team that takes him before the 4th round is full of idiots.

Granted, McCoy is the perfect career backup and Weeden is a few years from being out of the league.
i think colt mccoy can be an nfl starter in the west coast offense especially if he has talent around him, unless your newton, stafford, or cutler guys with elite physical tools ur not going to look like a starting caliber qb with the skills player on the browns offense
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:08 AM    (permalink
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Weeden may or may not be an upgrade, but he's not the answer at QB for the Browns regardless. Is it worth it using a late-first or early-second choice to improve your QB by just a little bit if you get lucky? I say no.

If Tannehill doesn't work out for them at a more reasonable spot in the draft than No. 4 and they didn't resolve the matter in free agency, then I think they are better served trying again next year as much as that would suck for them and their fans.

Lose the battle to try and win the war. Granted, they've been losing this battle for years now.
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:15 AM    (permalink
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If an overrated system QB from the Big-12 is an upgrade over another overrated system QB from the Big-12... it'll definitely be a first.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:23 AM    (permalink
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If an overrated system QB from the Big-12 is an upgrade over another overrated system QB from the Big-12... it'll definitely be a first.
Does this apply to Griffin too? No one knocks him for being a system QB from the Big 12
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Old 03-15-2012, 07:22 AM    (permalink
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Does this apply to Griffin too? No one knocks him for being a system QB from the Big 12
Griffin has a better arm than Colt and seems to have a better feel for the downfield passing game.
McCoy didn't light it up for the Browns last season but I don't know how many 2nd year QBs would in that situation.

I still believe if you give McCoy legit targets, a run game and a solid Oline, he can be a productive QB in the mold of the Bills Fitzpatrick.

He literally willed the Longhorns to so many victories in college, it's hard for me to believe he can't get it done in the pros.
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Old 03-15-2012, 07:52 AM    (permalink
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The real question I have is:

'Does Cleveland under Holmgren and Heckert even have a plan' or are they living in the past when QB's weren't so severely over drafted and haven't adjusted to the new reality. By the time they realize nobody is going to hand them a top QB for practically nothing, another decade will have passed with the Browns sitting squarely in last place, in their Division, for that whole period.

Holmgren's experience is that teams have traded him his starting QB's for peanuts, including Favre in Green Bay and Hasselbach in Seasttle and he still thinks he can get a QB on the cheap.

He was the wrong hire at a time when the NFL was making a massive change in how it drafted and found QB's in an NFL almost totally committed to throwing the ball under the new rules.

To get back to Weedon, if the Browns don't draft Tannehill at #4 then in order to secure Weedon, they will have to trade back into round 1 to guarantee they get Weedon and I just don't think Holmgren is prepared to do it. It is a sad case of total incompetence in the new reality of the NFL today. Sure, he might grab Weedon in round 2 if no other team has moved back up into round 1 or traded up past Cleveland to secure him before them, but it looks like he is prepared to do nothing, thinking he might get a free ride next year or the year after.

This is why my fellow Cleveland fans don't like me.
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:14 AM    (permalink
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The real question I have is:

'Does Cleveland under Holmgren and Heckert even have a plan' or are they living in the past when QB's weren't so severely over drafted and haven't adjusted to the new reality. By the time they realize nobody is going to hand them a top QB for practically nothing, another decade will have passed with the Browns sitting squarely in last place, in their Division, for that whole period.

Holmgren's experience is that teams have traded him his starting QB's for peanuts, including Favre in Green Bay and Hasselbach in Seasttle and he still thinks he can get a QB on the cheap.

He was the wrong hire at a time when the NFL was making a massive change in how it drafted and found QB's in an NFL almost totally committed to throwing the ball under the new rules.

To get back to Weedon, if the Browns don't draft Tannehill at #4 then in order to secure Weedon, they will have to trade back into round 1 to guarantee they get Weedon and I just don't think Holmgren is prepared to do it. It is a sad case of total incompetence in the new reality of the NFL today. Sure, he might grab Weedon in round 2 if no other team has moved back up into round 1 or traded up past Cleveland to secure him before them, but it looks like he is prepared to do nothing, thinking he might get a free ride next year or the year after.

This is why my fellow Cleveland fans don't like me.
I don't dislike you, but I highly disagree with most of your conclusions. Also, your arguments aren't based in fact yet you present them as such.

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It is a sad case of total incompetence in the new reality of the NFL today.
It's statements like this that make me smh. This regime has done almost everything right so far except mortgage the farm for a QB, which I happen to be pleased with. Just look at how far the defense has come in two years. Bottom-dweller to quite good with a lot of young talent that can keep getting better. I'm very happy with this FO.
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Old 03-15-2012, 02:27 AM    (permalink
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so to answer your question; no
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Old 03-15-2012, 03:40 AM    (permalink
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Not for me. Many of the things that McCoy has had to learn, Weeden will also (going through progressions etc.).
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Old 03-15-2012, 04:05 AM    (permalink
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He's an upgrade, but how many guys aren't? Blaine Gabbert?
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Old 03-15-2012, 07:57 AM    (permalink
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I think Holmgren puts alot of stock into his WCO approach - he wants a QB to fit the scheme rather than build a scheme around the QB. Shurmur seemed pretty inept last season by being both the head coach and offensive play caller.

I think Cousins might have leaped over Weeden - neither is worth a first round pick but if the Browns took Cousins in the second round it wouldn't be such a bad thing especially if they get Richardson and Floyd or Wright in the first
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:02 AM    (permalink
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I think Holmgren puts alot of stock into his WCO approach - he wants a QB to fit the scheme rather than build a scheme around the QB. Shurmur seemed pretty inept last season by being both the head coach and offensive play caller.

I think Cousins might have leaped over Weeden - neither is worth a first round pick but if the Browns took Cousins in the second round it wouldn't be such a bad thing especially if they get Richardson and Floyd or Wright in the first
I could be wrong but I see no way Cousins has leapfrogged Weedon, he throws a terrible deep ball which hindered him in college and will be suicidal in the pros.

Where is all the love for Kendall Wright coming from??? He was expected to run his 40 at the combine in the 4.35-4.40 range as a small receiver and ran a 4.61. Unless he shows dramatic improvement at his pro day, he won't see round 1.
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:43 AM    (permalink
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I could be wrong but I see no way Cousins has leapfrogged Weedon, he throws a terrible deep ball which hindered him in college and will be suicidal in the pros.

Where is all the love for Kendall Wright coming from??? He was expected to run his 40 at the combine in the 4.35-4.40 range as a small receiver and ran a 4.61. Unless he shows dramatic improvement at his pro day, he won't see round 1.
This is why real scouts watch game tape where he gets behind everybody and don't depend on "official" 40 times when everyone who hand-timed him saw the 40 time they were looking for.

You just keep holding on to that 4.61 time though and how it will push him down in the draft.
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Old 03-16-2012, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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This is why real scouts watch game tape where he gets behind everybody and don't depend on "official" 40 times when everyone who hand-timed him saw the 40 time they were looking for.

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No they didn't, he didn't come close to the expected time that scouts and GM's were expecting. The CB's in the NFL got there through their 40 times and their unofficial times were much faster than Wright's.

NFL CB's aren't college CB's, if they are in the NFL, and they are starting, they are a lot faster than Wright, about 4 feet or more faster than Wright on a deep pattern and if you don't think that is significant then you need to watch more pro football.

Now, Wright still has a pro day coming, maybe he was sick at the Combine or just had a bad day, he will get another shot to prove he has the speed to beat NFL CB's on deep patterns, but he had better produce at his pro day, or he can expect a sharp decline in his WR rankings.
You just keep holding on to that 4.61 time though and how it will push him down in the draft.
I'm holding on to it till he shows me at his pro day that it was an aberration, otherwise he be a sinking ship on draft day.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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I'm holding on to it till he shows me at his pro day that it was an aberration, otherwise he be a sinking ship on draft day.
Just like at the combine and on all the tape anyone cares to see, Kendall Wright runs a sub-4.5 40 at his pro day.
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Wrathman View Post
This is why real scouts watch game tape where he gets behind everybody and don't depend on "official" 40 times when everyone who hand-timed him saw the 40 time they were looking for.

You just keep holding on to that 4.61 time though and how it will push him down in the draft.
This is a pet-peeve of mine. If we're talking about 40 times, there is no sane or rational reason to trust a 50 year old man with a stopwatch more than you would trust a media intern with access to proprietary combine footage and a computer.
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:56 PM    (permalink
Inspector71
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This is a pet-peeve of mine. If we're talking about 40 times, there is no sane or rational reason to trust a 50 year old man with a stopwatch more than you would trust a media intern with access to proprietary combine footage and a computer.
It really doesn't matter what you would trust. The FACT is that NFl Teams go by the 40 times of their Scouts. The "Official times" are for Television.

Mayock and Charley Casserly both had Kendall Wright in the low 4.4's. Whichj is EXACTLY how fast he looks on film.

And you guys crack me up with the Weeden love. It isn't happening. I will be SHOCKEd if he's drafted before the 3rd round. Besides his age, there are SERIOUS issues with him as a player.

There is A LOT OF Derek Anderson to his game.
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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Any chance the Browns trade #4 to the Rams for #6. In this scenario Rams snag their playmaker in Blackmon and Browns can draft Tannehill at #6, which looks better than 4
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:05 AM    (permalink
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First of all, the Brandon Weeden talk is getting out of hand. I'm all for underdog stories, but the guy is 28 years old; three years older than Colt. And Colt has more NFL experience and knowledge, while also matching one of Weeden's biggest "strengths," maturity. All this talk that he'd easily be better than Colt is crazy.

If anyone should be drafted to push McCoy (not outright replace him), it should be Cousins.

Also, I think McCoy is getting a little short-changed here. Lets take a look at some statistics that may help soften your stance against the kid.

Here are some of Cleveland's NFL rankings that relate to his supporting cast. And yes, I know that all of these are still linked to QB play, but I still think it's a valid exercise...

Rushing Yards - 28th
YPC - 31st
OL Hits Allowed - 25th
WR Drops - 32nd

Colt has been in the NFL for 2 years with what is arguably the least talented supporting cast in the league, and because he doesn't wow you with a cannon arm, everyone assumes he has no potential.

I'm not really sold one way or the other yet, but to me it makes less sense to freak out and overdraft a 28 year old with an adequate skill set from a spread offense than to let the 25 year old have one more year with a full off-season and upgrades in talent around him.
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