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Old 09-26-2012, 10:13 PM    (permalink
Bert Macklin
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Default New 8 year deal reached with Referees

There will be more links to come as they hopefully become available.

Quote:
Can confirm per source that regular refs will work Thu night game and be on field for full Sunday slate.

Hearing 8-year deal between refs and NFL.

Refs have to ratify in-person and likely attend mini clinic to refresh rules.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Record_Ta...41630491516930

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The NFL will have Hochuli to thank for the training sessions the NFL has not been able to run because he has run some of his own. Every Tuesday night, the veteran official with the Popeye arms has been holding rules-related conference calls with all officials. Average attendance on the calls, I'm told, is between 90 and 110 per week. Hochuli, the officiating sources says, gives all officials a test each week, similar to one they might get from the NFL during a regular week of preparations, and then goes over the results on the phone with the officials. "That's one of the reasons why the officials will be up to date and ready to go,'' the officiating source said. "Ed grabbed the bull by the horns and made sure that whenever this thing ended, the regular officials would be ready to go back to work immediately.''
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...eal/index.html

Quote:
The NBC-owned webiste cites Jim Daopoulos, a longtime NFL official and supervisor of officials who joined NBC as an analyst this season, as saying the league and the NFL Referees' Assn. have signed a new deal.

The report says a crew is being assembled to work Thursday night's game between the Cleveland Browns and Baltimore Ravens and on Friday the regular officials will travel to Dallas to retrieve their equipment and receive their game assignments for Sunday and Monday. The same crews as last season will be working together this season.

According to a report, the pension issue was resolved with the existing defined-benefit plan remaining in place for five years until the officials are rolled over into a 401(k) plan.

Ending a lockout that lasted nearly four months --and three weeks of pins-and-needles tension with replacements -- the NFL on Wednesday night reached a labor agreement with its officials, presumably in time for the regular crews to work this weekend’s games.

The crisis reached a flashpoint Monday night, when the Green Bay Packers were denied a victory against the Seahawks in Seattle on the basis of a wrong call on a Hail Mary pass.

That turned up the heat on NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell and team owners to find a solution that largely concerned whether the officials could maintain their defined-benefit pension plans.

During the first three weeks of the regular season, the league came under heavy criticism from fans, players, and even normally friendly broadcast partners.

“I hope it happens soon,” St. Louis Rams quarterback Sam Bradford said Wednesday. “I just don’t think it’s fair to the fans, I don’t think it’s fair to us as players to go out there and have to deal with that week in and week out.”

The replacement officials were mostly culled from the small college, junior college and high school ranks. Unlike when replacements were used for Week 1 of the regular season in 2001, major college officials watched this labor fight from the sidelines, in support of their NFL officiating brethren.

After news broke early Wednesday that a deal was at hand, Scott Green, a negotiator for the NFL Referees Assn., informed the officials in an email that the suggestion was premature and that talks were still underway.

Goodell participated in the negotiations, which took place over four days last week, during the weekend, as well as marathon sessions on Tuesday and Wednesday. A federal mediator also assisted in the talks.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sports...,7504367.story

Last edited by Bert Macklin : 09-26-2012 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:44 PM    (permalink
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Hochuli was at Chiefs TC a couple of years ago and he is just as big in person.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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Hochuli was at Chiefs TC a couple of years ago and he is just as big in person.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:49 PM    (permalink
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Count the last three weeks as preseason and let the games begin.

But seriously, thank you.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:53 PM    (permalink
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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BOOOOOOOOOOOOO

We want: Replacement Refs!Replacement Refs!Replacement Refs!Replacement Refs!Replacement Refs!Replacement Refs!Replacement Refs!Replacement Refs!Replacement Refs!Replacement Refs!Replacement Refs!
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:16 PM    (permalink
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I hate how selfish the real refs are. part of this whole strike issue is because they didn't want more refs? **** you.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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I wonder how long until they change the simultaneous possession rule?

One hand is possession and simultaneous means both people have the same thing at the same time.

That replacement ref made the right call, on a ruling written by an association he wasn't even a part of, and he's the scapegoat.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:20 PM    (permalink
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I thought the NFL came out with a statement saying they supported the officiating during the ending of that MNF game? Why did they qiuckly get a deal done 2 days later with the real refs?


seriously though, about damn time
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:23 PM    (permalink
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I thought the NFL came out with a statement saying they supported the officiating during the ending of that MNF game? Why did they qiuckly get a deal done 2 days later with the real refs?


seriously though, about damn time
Because for the first time, this was going to hit their pockets. People might finally tune out because they had it with these replacement refs.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:19 AM    (permalink
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I thought the NFL came out with a statement saying they supported the officiating during the ending of that MNF game? Why did they qiuckly get a deal done 2 days later with the real refs?


seriously though, about damn time
The NFL was getting bad press from everywhere. Even national news outlets that don't regularly cover the NFL were talking about this first on their broadcast. The President of the United States of America even chimed in. Really, this is the only way to hit a big corporation in the mouth. They won't budge unless it becomes a PR nightmare. Funny how once the **** hit the fan the deal got done in two days.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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I'm definitely in the minority here but I don't support the real refs and I think if you guys understood the issue more than you wouldn't either.

They get paid 150,000 dollars for working 16 4 hour games and they feel they are entitled to more? They aren't the ones responsible for the increase in popularity of the NFL.

Next they don't want more refs because they don't want to be held accountable for doing a poor job?

The NFL ref union also once tried to get as much money as the NBA and MLB refs/umpires for working a fraction of the amount of games. The refs union is stupid but since no one understands the issues they just assume Goodell and the NFL are dumb and should just give them whatever they want.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:33 PM    (permalink
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I'm definitely in the minority here but I don't support the real refs and I think if you guys understood the issue more than you wouldn't either.

They get paid 150,000 dollars for working 16 4 hour games and they feel they are entitled to more? They aren't the ones responsible for the increase in popularity of the NFL.

Next they don't want more refs because they don't want to be held accountable for doing a poor job?

The NFL ref union also once tried to get as much money as the NBA and MLB refs/umpires for working a fraction of the amount of games. The refs union is stupid but since no one understands the issues they just assume Goodell and the NFL are dumb and should just give them whatever they want.
I couldn't agree more. The NFLRA and the Refs were asking for more than they deserved but the NFL eventually caved so it's whatever now.

I do feel bad for the replacement refs though. Sure they messed up a lot of calls, but none of this was their doing. They showed up, trained, and did the job to the best of their ability and they got **** on for it. Some of it was deserved, but the real people who deserved blame (the refs, NFLRA, and the NFL/Owners themselves) were the real problem.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:37 PM    (permalink
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I do feel bad for the replacement refs though. Sure they messed up a lot of calls, but none of this was their doing. They showed up, trained, and did the job to the best of their ability and they got **** on for it. Some of it was deserved, but the real people who deserved blame (the refs, NFLRA, and the NFL/Owners themselves) were the real problem.
I can agree with this. The replacements referees didn't do a good job at all, but at the same time they did try to do the best they could. That's no reason to keep them around, but it did make me respect the refereeing position a bit more.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:03 AM    (permalink
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I couldn't agree more. The NFLRA and the Refs were asking for more than they deserved but the NFL eventually caved so it's whatever now.

I do feel bad for the replacement refs though. Sure they messed up a lot of calls, but none of this was their doing. They showed up, trained, and did the job to the best of their ability and they got **** on for it. Some of it was deserved, but the real people who deserved blame (the refs, NFLRA, and the NFL/Owners themselves) were the real problem.
definitely. the replacement refs were put into an impossible situation.

It was like essentially promoting an intern to a management/supervisor-role. They were bound to make mistakes and it didn't help that the players and coaches tried to punk them just because they were new.

It's ok to be mad at them or happy the real refs are back because essentially we all are the consumers and deserve the best product available but like you said, they did the best they could.

anyways, good football is back.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:52 AM    (permalink
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definitely. the replacement refs were put into an impossible situation.

It was like essentially promoting an intern to a management/supervisor-role. They were bound to make mistakes and it didn't help that the players and coaches tried to punk them just because they were new.

It's ok to be mad at them or happy the real refs are back because essentially we all are the consumers and deserve the best product available but like you said, they did the best they could.

anyways, good football is back.
They did the best they could and they blew. Super glad the unqualified replacements are gone and we can actually play football.

Also enthused that the Packers getting ****** was the final straw.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:46 PM    (permalink
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I'm definitely in the minority here but I don't support the real refs and I think if you guys understood the issue more than you wouldn't either.

They get paid 150,000 dollars for working 16 4 hour games and they feel they are entitled to more? They aren't the ones responsible for the increase in popularity of the NFL.

Next they don't want more refs because they don't want to be held accountable for doing a poor job?

The NFL ref union also once tried to get as much money as the NBA and MLB refs/umpires for working a fraction of the amount of games. The refs union is stupid but since no one understands the issues they just assume Goodell and the NFL are dumb and should just give them whatever they want.
The NFL tried to get rid of their pensions and wanted them to be full time and lose their other job among other things. BTW they agreed to add more refs. Bottom line they should their worth.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:11 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Complex View Post
The NFL tried to get rid of their pensions and wanted them to be full time and lose their other job among other things. BTW they agreed to add more refs. Bottom line they should their worth.
That's not the case at all. The NFL wanted to keep their pensions at a fixed rate (not get rid of them) and the refs wanted their pensions to be a percentage of the NFL's profit. Also, the NFL only wanted a few officials to be full-time, not every one of them.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:20 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by soybean View Post
I'm definitely in the minority here but I don't support the real refs and I think if you guys understood the issue more than you wouldn't either.

They get paid 150,000 dollars for working 16 4 hour games and they feel they are entitled to more? They aren't the ones responsible for the increase in popularity of the NFL.

Next they don't want more refs because they don't want to be held accountable for doing a poor job?

The NFL ref union also once tried to get as much money as the NBA and MLB refs/umpires for working a fraction of the amount of games. The refs union is stupid but since no one understands the issues they just assume Goodell and the NFL are dumb and should just give them whatever they want.
Yeah, but look at how hard they were to replace. You go down on the field and try to ref a game with players moving at that speed. Its a lot easier watching it on TV. Are you saying their job is easy?
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by soybean View Post
I'm definitely in the minority here but I don't support the real refs and I think if you guys understood the issue more than you wouldn't either.

They get paid 150,000 dollars for working 16 4 hour games and they feel they are entitled to more? They aren't the ones responsible for the increase in popularity of the NFL.

Next they don't want more refs because they don't want to be held accountable for doing a poor job?

The NFL ref union also once tried to get as much money as the NBA and MLB refs/umpires for working a fraction of the amount of games. The refs union is stupid but since no one understands the issues they just assume Goodell and the NFL are dumb and should just give them whatever they want.
I'm not following...

But I'm going to apply common sense to what you posted. And I'm going to ask questions, which you may or may not know the answers to, but I'm interested in your response.

First, I will say this about unions... They fight. That's what they do. They fight for what they deem is fair. Are you saying the union should not fight for the things you mentioned? Because they fight even when they have it good. Because eventually, with unions, the big guy starts taking away. It always happens. The less you have, or the less you fight for, then the more you are going to lose when the employer starts making cuts. Because, eventually, they are going to make cuts whether you fought or not... whether you have it good or bad, they will still try to give you the minimum.

I'm going to pick your comments apart, and it's only because I don't know the answers to the questions I'm about to ask. And it makes a difference. A big difference. It is easy to hide things through vagueness. So I'm going to ask questions that may be stupid, smart or somewhere in between.


You said they get paid 150k to work 16 games a year. NFL season is 17 weeks. Do they get a bye week? They get paid for that bye week?

NFL also has a postseason. Do the referees that work post season get paid more for working those games? Or is just set on 150k... postseason or not? The Super Bowl make a difference? If they are getting paid to work outside of the regular season, then is there a pay increase for working the more important games?

NFL has a preseason. That's another 4 weeks. I assume they all officiate those games. Is that included in the 150k for 16 weeks of work?

Do they get paid travel expenses? How early are they supposed to be in the City they are officiating prior to the game? A day before? Two days? Any meeting with anyone from the NFL they need to attend before game day? I've heard things about rules testing? When are they conducted? Game day? During the week? Sounds time consuming, which sounds like more work to me.


Why is the NFLRA stupid for attempting to gain the same pay as MLB and NBA officials? Because of the whole 16 game thing? The 16 game season is spread out over 5 months (with four preseason games). Sounds like 5 months of part time work to me. Which sounds a little better than the way you put it. And how does their part time job impact their full time job during the week? Does that mean they have to burn their own time (vacation, personal, ect?) if they are scheduled for a Monday night game? When you consider travel time, that's two days they'd have to burn during the week of their full time job.

Then you mentioned, maybe the one sticking point that may irk you the most... "Next they don't want more refs because they don't want to be held accountable for doing a poor job?"

Are they held accountable for doing a good job? Is there a benefit, bonus, whatever you want to call it, for doing a good job? I bet I know this answer. Who decides what official did a good job or a bad job? Is it someone with officiating experience? And how many incorrect calls or missed calls determines if an official is doing a bad job? If you make a "bad call" in a MNF game does that mean you are getting replaced? Even if you have been given good grades prior to that? And once you are replaced, what does that mean? Does that mean you no longer get paid? When can you can you come back? What do you have to do to come back? Take a test?

There is a reason for everything. I'm sure it's not as clear cut as you posted. And there is probably a reason why they are fighting for the things they eventually got.


I haven't made one single argument for them. I'm just asking questions here.

I don't know any of the circumstances involved. Not a bit, and I really don't care. I'm happy they won because I'm in a union, and I've seen some messy, shady stuff that an employer can publish in local papers making a union look bad or greedy. Is this case here? I don't know. I haven't followed up on it. The only thing I know, how it directly effects me, is that when I watch the NFL without these guys, the product the NFL displays... is diminished. Greatly. It's significantly less entertaining, less enjoyable and unfair.


I like the union, because I like unions. I like the fact that these officials are competent, well trained and that they are the best at what they do. I feel as if, those guys, should be compensated appropriately. Paying them a little more? I guess it's not so bad. Maybe if they are paid enough then you don't have to worry about someone else paying them, which could have really bad results for the outcomes of games.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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this was the thing i wanted the owners to 'win' on. bad refs should be canned. i'm so sick of this circling the wagons BS when a guy (or crew) repeatedly makes terrible calls.
They are evaluated. The good ones get playoffs and beyond and the truly bad ones don't stay in the league. I wouldn't act like the same crews are there for life.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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name 1 ref who's actually been fired for being bad at his job. i don't believe i've ever heard of one, meanwhile guys like hochuli **** up a game completely, then get playoff games in the same season.
So except for retirement (which of course can be recommended) we have the same refs we've had for a decade. If that is the case i stand corrected.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:10 AM    (permalink
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I think the replacement refs did a pretty good job, as someone who has reffed this sport along with several others, this is hands down the hardest sport to referee that there is and they did a good job overall. They've been the victims of intense scrutiny and for the most part they've got it right or at least not terribly wrong.

Lets also not pretend that we haven't had a comparable call to that GB/Seattle call in each of the last few seasons with the "real refs". They are all human, they all make mistakes but because they are replacement refs the scrutiny and uproar is magnified.

Glad to have the refs back though, I don't think the replacements did a bad job but I also don't think they were as good as the "real" refs who are generally outstanding.

For me the NFL should shoulder the blame for this situation, the integrity of the sport should not have a cost or ever be risked like it was, even if I think it came out fine.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:13 AM    (permalink
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Reposting.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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