Aldon Smith or Von Miller?

Punisher · 11-20-2012, 07:58 AM

Both players are rising up the league sack sheet at record pace. Coming into the league Von was and still does get most of the hype. In your NFLDC expert poster opinion who ultimately is and/or will become the best player between the two and why?

AntoinCD · 11-20-2012, 08:00 AM

Von Miller because he can do it all. Smith is a great pass rusher and has improved in the run game but just because he beat up on Carimi and Webb I'm not puting him in the Von Miller class. Miller flat out dominates offenses in all areas, and he doesn't befenit from lining up next to a guy like Justin Smith either.

LonghornsLegend · 11-20-2012, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

Von Miller because he can do it all. Smith is a great pass rusher and has improved in the run game but just because he beat up on Carimi and Webb I'm not puting him in the Von Miller class. Miller flat out dominates offenses in all areas, and he doesn't befenit from lining up next to a guy like Justin Smith either.

Yea, because that's the only tackles Aldon Smith has ever made look foolish

Then you fail to mention how Miller racked up 3 sacks vs those legendary tackles for the Chargers too right?

Also, Von Miller doesn't benefit from lining up across Elvis Dumervil who is still easily one of the best pass rushers in the league right now? If your going to make an argument for one guy, don't completely ignore how you could use the same points against the player your arguing for.

AntoinCD · 11-20-2012, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

Yea, because that's the only tackles Aldon Smith has ever made look foolish

Then you fail to mention how Miller racked up 3 sacks vs those legendary tackles for the Chargers too right?

Also, Von Miller doesn't benefit from lining up across Elvis Dumervil who is still easily one of the best pass rushers in the league right now? If your going to make an argument for one guy, don't completely ignore how you could use the same points against the player your arguing for.

I'm not doing that at all. Aldon Smith is a very good player but this wasn't even considered an arguement until last night. It's the same in the Kaepernick thread. He had a great game, but let's calm down he's just not on Von's level.

And playing on the opposite side of the line is completely different then playing beside someone. Aldon can basically peel off Smith's hip as he is occupying multiple blockers.

Justin Smith is so dominant that if a guard blocks him he will win with either power or speed. He commands double blocks! On the same side of the line as Smith most of the time. You have to pick your poison here.

And as I mentioned above Miller is more than just a pass rusher. He can drop, he can blow up the run game etc

LonghornsLegend · 11-20-2012, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

I'm not doing that at all. Aldon Smith is a very good player but this wasn't even considered an arguement until last night. It's the same in the Kaepernick thread. He had a great game, but let's calm down he's just not on Von's level.

And playing on the opposite side of the line is completely different then playing beside someone. Aldon can basically peel off Smith's hip as he is occupying multiple blockers.

Justin Smith is so dominant that if a guard blocks him he will win with either power or speed. He commands double blocks! On the same side of the line as Smith most of the time. You have to pick your poison here.

And as I mentioned above Miller is more than just a pass rusher. He can drop, he can blow up the run game etc

Yea but it's actually not the same thing. Aldon Smith has been really good since he has been drafted, what your saying would make more sense if this was the first time anybody has ever heard of him. Or his first multi sack game ever. I don't see any correlation what so ever with the Kaepernick situation. Unless you actually think this is Aldon Smith's first good game, which is pretty strange for a guy approaching 30 sacks well before his first 2 seasons are up.

Also Justin Smith and Aldon Smith are on opposite sides a ton of the time, the 'lol' play of the game Aldon was on the left, Justin was on the right side, which is the case a bunch of times. The point is that both guys have a legitimate threat on the defense with them to attack the QB, it's not like Justin Smith makes his life easier because he's stronger but Dumervil doesn't because he's fast. I'm not even arguing that Aldon is better, just that your trying to use a bunch of generalizations about Smith that Miller has basically the same things in his favor.

AntoinCD · 11-20-2012, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

Yea but it's actually not the same thing. Aldon Smith has been really good since he has been drafted, what your saying would make more sense if this was the first time anybody has ever heard of him. Or his first multi sack game ever. I don't see any correlation what so ever with the Kaepernick situation. Unless you actually think this is Aldon Smith's first good game, which is pretty strange for a guy approaching 30 sacks well before his first 2 seasons are up.

Also Justin Smith and Aldon Smith are on opposite sides a ton of the time, the 'lol' play of the game Aldon was on the left, Justin was on the right side, which is the case a bunch of times. The point is that both guys have a legitimate threat on the defense with them to attack the QB, it's not like Justin Smith makes his life easier because he's stronger but Dumervil doesn't because he's fast. I'm not even arguing that Aldon is better, just that your trying to use a bunch of generalizations about Smith that Miller has basically the same things in his favor.

Yeah I'm not meaning to come across and state that Smith has only come to people's attention after last night. I mean the guy has the most sacks in NFL history through 26 games. However before last night this wasn't an arguement and that's not a disrepect to Smith it's more of a testament to Miller.

I do understand that at times the two Smith's will line up on opposite sides, however I would say at least 70% of the time it is the same side. I still maintain it is easier to protect against two great outside guys than one great outside guy and a great interior guy on the same side.

If the DE/OLB beats the OT the QB is more likely to step up in the pocket rather than run into the other DE. Likewise, if the interior is pushed then the QB can't step up giving the outside guy futher depth on his arc to get to the QB

FUNBUNCHER · 11-20-2012, 08:05 AM

Coin flip but damn Aldon Smith is just so powerful at times on his pass rush. Sometimes he reminds me of Charles Haley.

vidae · 11-20-2012, 08:54 AM

Von Miller for me and it isn't close. God it pains me to say that about a division rival but he's so good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Coin flip but damn Aldon Smith is just so powerful at times on his pass rush. Sometimes he reminds me of Charles Haley.

Didn't Gruden say that exact thing last night?

FUNBUNCHER · 11-20-2012, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

Von Miller for me and it isn't close. God it pains me to say that about a division rival but he's so good.

Didn't Gruden say that exact thing last night?

LOL. I was in and out of that game. If he said it, I missed that. Not surprised though since they have a very similar bodytype and are extremely powerful for their size.

will99890 · 11-20-2012, 08:08 AM

As a diehard niner fan I should pick Aldon, but after watching Von Miller at A&M I knew he was going to be a great all around player in the league.

In college he was a great pass rusher as we all know, but his senior year he got moved from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB which allowed him to show off his fluidity in space and ability to drop back into zone. Those skills carried over very well to the pro game and are what really seperate him from Aldon Smith.

Both are great players, Von Miller is just more versatile.

abaddon41_80 · 11-20-2012, 08:22 AM

As a 49ers fan I would still have to say Miller. I think he generates more consistent pressure and the other aspects of his game are also slightly better.

farfromforgotten · 11-20-2012, 08:54 AM

I love you Aldon, but I chose Von as of right now as well.

Ness · 11-20-2012, 09:42 AM

I don't know. I haven't seen Miller play as much as Smith. I'm not going to ride the "he's just not on the same level" card though some people want to play.

Jvig43 · 11-20-2012, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness

I don't know. I haven't seen Miller play as much as Smith. I'm not going to ride the "he's just not on the same level" card though some people want to play.

Just like the Vernon Davis and Rob Gronkowski issue, it's not "night and day".

Only this issue is night and day.

Ness · 11-20-2012, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

Only this issue is night and day.

For you it is.

scottyboy · 11-20-2012, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat

You just can't discuss a 49ers player anymore. This board just can't handle it. It has become patently obvious.

I'd take Miller. And it has nothing to do with actual on-field football stuff. I'm just saying I'd take Miller because SWDC do what SWDC do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness

For you it is.

that is why Borat. I'm sorry that a small number of posters brings it down, but that is why. I <3 you though. And Brent even though he's a drunk asshole who says mean things lots of times.

Brent · 11-20-2012, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyboy

And Brent even though he's a drunk asshole who says mean things lots of times.

phlysac · 11-20-2012, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyboy

that is why Borat. I'm sorry that a small number of posters brings it down, but that is why. I <3 you though. And Brent even though he's a drunk asshole who says mean things lots of times.

Because people obviously troll him it's still his fault? In this thread alone "night and day" and "clearly superior" were used to dismiss and diminish the 49ers player.

If it's intentional trolling of Ness, congratulations on being very mature. If it's not trolling then congratulations on an inability to make rational comparisons. Either way it is no longer Ness who is perpetuating this issue.

Just my $0.02 as a 49ers' fan who supposedly isn't a part of the bickering.

Ness · 11-20-2012, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyboy

that is why Borat. I'm sorry that a small number of posters brings it down, but that is why. I <3 you though. And Brent even though he's a drunk asshole who says mean things lots of times.

Oh okay so if I have a different opinion I'm bringing the discussion down. Cool story bro. Way to take the moral high ground.

Splat · 11-20-2012, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness

Just like the Vernon Davis and Rob Gronkowski issue, it's not "night and day".

That's cute.

Rosebud · 11-20-2012, 10:05 AM

This isn't very close for me but I loved Von Miller coming out, n he has done nothing but match the incredible expectations I had for him. Doom's a fine partner in crime but the Denver d has no business being as effective as they have been. That Front 7 is a joke outside of those two and the secondary isn't great either. But Miller n Doom make it work. Alison's a beast, but he's doing less with a lot more support.

Iamcanadian · 11-20-2012, 10:35 AM

I'm a Miller lover and predicted the HOF for him mid-season last year, however Smith is no slouch either, yes, he plays on a better defense which gives him more 1 on 1 opportunities, but he is very productive and will no doubt have the most sacks in NFL history for first 2 seasons, that's not something you can just ignore. He is also on a HOF pace and the way he played last night showed off his ability to take over a game and dominate.
Smith was very raw coming out of Missouri and his best years are still ahead of him, Miller was far more developed, so I won't rule out Smith as a candidate to match Miller's career just yet.

bigbluedefense · 11-20-2012, 11:54 AM

One of my pet peeves on this forum is, when we compare 2 players, often times we feel the need to talk down on one guy in an attempt to talk up the other.

Both these guys are studs. I'm gonna take Von bc Von is the better all around player right now.

But part of me thinks Aldon will have the better long term career bc of his length. But it's so close to call. Both of these guys are complete studs in the making.

njx9 · 11-20-2012, 12:05 PM

*shrug* the tenor of most of the conversation was normal discussion. but just like everything else, you had the folks who were suggesting kaepernick should start over alex smith immediately (or would be traded for a 1st round pick, immediately) and the folks who were making fun of them for it.

but just like last year with the packers, the loud extreme posters get the attention. and the thread isn't about him being a really good player. it's asking if he's better than von miller. but it wasn't posted last week, it was only posted after he abused the worst excuse for a pop warner offensive line i've ever seen.

phlysac · 11-20-2012, 12:16 PM

I can't argue against Miller. My only question is the assertion that this wouldn't even be in the realm of discussion "before last night." Why not? Why shouldn't it have been?