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Old 12-04-2012, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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Default Do the Rams regret trading RG3?

Now the trade was flipping 1st rounders and then getting two 1st round and one 2nd round pick. I don't think this trade can be judged until we see how the Rams use the extra picks and what players the get with them. But do you guys think if they could take it back today they would? And would trade Bradford and keep the second overall pick being RG3.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:26 PM    (permalink
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I do not like Sam Bradford at all and I don't think he will ever come close to the number one pick status, but I say no. First, Bradford had a huge contract so they would have been paying a ton of money for a guy on the bench. Second, while Bradford isn't great, he hasn't been bad enough to justify giving up on him after two years. And lastly, yes, RGIII is playing well right now, but look at history. Newton and Young had stellar rookie years but people caught on to them and they suffered huge sophomore slumps. Michael Vick looked great when he first started for the Eagles. People caught on to him too. That is what happens with scrambling QBs. I don't think his stats will be nearly as fantastic next year.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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Bradford is still only 25. It's too early for the Rams to give up on him. Many people seem married to the idea that he's a bust, but I don't think he's as bad as they want to believe.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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Bradford is still only 25. It's too early for the Rams to give up on him. Many people seem married to the idea that he's a bust, but I don't think he's as bad as they want to believe.
I agree.

On top of that, his "franchise LT that will protect his blindside for the next 10 years" turned out to be a huuuuuuuuge BUST and is no longer with the team.



And he doesn't have any WR's or TE to throw to.


Get him some weapons and then we'll see how good he is. He didn't go into a situation like Matt Ryan where he has Tony Gonzalez, Michael Turner, and Roddy White.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:45 AM    (permalink
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I do not like Sam Bradford at all and I don't think he will ever come close to the number one pick status, but I say no. First, Bradford had a huge contract so they would have been paying a ton of money for a guy on the bench. Second, while Bradford isn't great, he hasn't been bad enough to justify giving up on him after two years. And lastly, yes, RGIII is playing well right now, but look at history. Newton and Young had stellar rookie years but people caught on to them and they suffered huge sophomore slumps. Michael Vick looked great when he first started for the Eagles. People caught on to him too. That is what happens with scrambling QBs. I don't think his stats will be nearly as fantastic next year.
Vick, Newton, and Young weren't completeing 70% of their passes while averaging over 8 yards per attempting. Don't forget about his 100 quarterback rating either. I have a hard time seeing RGIII regressing considering how good he has been. He's light years ahead of the three guys you mentioned.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:25 AM    (permalink
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yes, newton's 60% completion percentage, with 7.8 y/a, in an offense less perfectly suited to his skillset, was so much worse. vick at 63%, 8.1, and a +100 rating? totally different.
Huh?

Chudzinski brought many of Auburn's read option plays to the Panthers and incorporated them into his playbook. He built that offense around what Cam did well in college. It fit Cam like a glove.

Vick didn't sniff 63% completions until he was released from prison. He never completed more than 56% of his passes as a Falcon.

Yeah, what RGIII is doing passing the football IS totally different than what Cam/Vick/VY did as rookies.

Other than Cam it's not even really comparable, and even he lacks RGIII's accuracy.

Back to the OP, I think Bradford is a guy that needs a borderline great oline, a solid run game and better size/speed at WR if the Rams ever hope to maximize their investment in him.

WHen the SKins played the Rams, Bradford made Amendola look like Steve Smith and he was literally the only guy who consistently got open.

Some QBs elevate mediocre talent around them, like Tom Brady or Peyton.
Some QBs are better suited for maximizing the talent surrounding them, like Drew Brees.

Most HOF QBs had very talented supporting casts on offense. It's the new breed of elite NFL QBs who are winning with JAGs at the skill positions and along the oline.
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:07 AM    (permalink
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Vick, Newton, and Young weren't completeing 70% of their passes while averaging over 8 yards per attempting. Don't forget about his 100 quarterback rating either. I have a hard time seeing RGIII regressing considering how good he has been. He's light years ahead of the three guys you mentioned.
Last year, Newton threw for 400-plus yards in his first game. He threw for over 4000 yards. RGIII is not light years ahead of what Newton was by any stretch of the imagination.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:11 AM    (permalink
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Last year, Newton threw for 400-plus yards in his first game. He threw for over 4000 yards. RGIII is not light years ahead of what Newton was by any stretch of the imagination.
Cam Newton is 15th in QB rating. RGIII is 3rd in QB rating. They have essentially the same yard per attempt, but RGIII is completing 10% more of his passes than Newton. Newton has 6 more interceptions than RGIII with only 30 more pass attempts. Also, the Redskins have a better record. I think it's pretty clear that RGIII is way better than Newton.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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Cam Newton is 15th in QB rating. RGIII is 3rd in QB rating. They have essentially the same yard per attempt, but RGIII is completing 10% more of his passes than Newton. Newton has 6 more interceptions than RGIII with only 30 more pass attempts. Also, the Redskins have a better record. I think it's pretty clear that RGIII is way better than Newton.
We will see if RG3 can do it again next year. He could easily have the same sophomore slump.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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Newton and Young had stellar rookie years but people caught on to them and they suffered huge sophomore slumps.
Player A: 51.5 cmp%, 2199 yds, 12 td, 13 int, 66.7 rate, 6.2 y/a
Player B: 55.0 cmp%, 2436 yds, 12 td, 13 int, 71.4 rate, 6.6 y/a

Player A is Vince Young's rookie season. Player B is Mark Sanchez this season.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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Player A: 51.5 cmp%, 2199 yds, 12 td, 13 int, 66.7 rate, 6.2 y/a
Player B: 55.0 cmp%, 2436 yds, 12 td, 13 int, 71.4 rate, 6.6 y/a

Player A is Vince Young's rookie season. Player B is Mark Sanchez this season.
Wait, you're telling me Mark Sanchez ISN'T a steallar QB? Mind blown. But seriously, stellar was the wrong word for Vince Young. But people were talking about how great Young was after his rookie season (deserved or not) and we all know how he turned out.

My thing with RGIII is a lot of his numbers are inflated by the system he is in. In the games I've watched of his, so many of his passes are behind the line of scrimmage or just beyond. Not that hard to complete those. He doesn't throw many picks because 90% of what he does is so low risk. Defenses will adjust next year so that the Redskins will have to do more things down field, over the middle, and higher risk. How RGIII adjusts to that different style will go a long way in answering this question.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Wait, you're telling me Mark Sanchez ISN'T a steallar QB? Mind blown. But seriously, stellar was the wrong word for Vince Young. But people were talking about how great Young was after his rookie season (deserved or not) and we all know how he turned out.
I'm just sick of people acting like VY had a great rookie season. As a Titans fan, I appreciated what he brought on the ground but he was garbage throwing the ball until 2009. And even then he was just a slightly above average game manager with one or two great games during a 16 game stretch.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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I think the Rams are ok with where they're at in their developement. I would also say they may be as near or nearer than the Redskins as far as getting to the Superbowl.

I like Griffin a lot more than i did Vick and Young, certainly at similar stages. Robert no doubt isn't a knucklehead and i don't think work ethic is ever going to be a problem. I think he is going to have to reduce the number of hits he takes and not sure if that will reduce his capacity to make plays so we'll have to see.

Right now the league is slowly adjusting to QBs running some form of the read option. In the last couple of weeks i have watched DEs from the Jets (against Seattle), Bears (against Seattle) and Giants (against Redskins) frankly make fools of themselves by giving up their backside containment that has lead to huge gainers for opposing QBs.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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I think the Rams have the better team than the Redskins but right now the Redskins have the better QB. I always have reservations about guys who don't show strong traits of being able to be a drop back passer though. Eventually teams will develop defensive schemes to force them into "regular" sets. There is a reason that pocket passers have lasted so long in a league driven by it's adaptability...because it is the best way to succeed. Defensively teams can come up with pressure packages and coverage shells to confuse the QB, however it all boils down to making the right read and the right throw. When you can make the throw and make the read then you can play in almost any situation. When your offense is based on the assumption you will gain positive yardage on first and second down then your 3rd down offense will more than likely be based around manageable distances. However, on 3rd and long play action goes out the window, read option goes out the window, 3 step drop slants etc are reduced. On 3rd and long every QB will at some stage have to drop back and survey the field and make the right read and throw. I have yet to see this consistently from RG3 and until he does show it consistently I struggle to mention the Redskins as possible future Superbowl winners. At some stage in the playoffs you are going to face a good defense who can stop, or reduce, the run game. If the QB can't keep the chains moving and/or score points on longer than ideal 3rd down situations then you won't consistently win against the better teams
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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My thing with RGIII is a lot of his numbers are inflated by the system he is in. In the games I've watched of his, so many of his passes are behind the line of scrimmage or just beyond. Not that hard to complete those. He doesn't throw many picks because 90% of what he does is so low risk. Defenses will adjust next year so that the Redskins will have to do more things down field, over the middle, and higher risk. How RGIII adjusts to that different style will go a long way in answering this question.
The bolded is why I think many of you are making evaluations on RGIII based on assumptions and really haven't watched consecutive games or even quarters of RGIII.
Robert doesn't throw picks because of his decision making, not the scheme.

Yes the Skins have bubble screens in the playbook, but there hasn't been one game where the majority of his passes have been to the sideline, or IMO even a third.
That's why I asked in another thread where people are getting the stat that Robert has thrown more passes behind the LOS than any QB in the NFL.

But if people want to conclude that RGIII is a system QB and that he's running a majority of offensive sets that are atypical for the the NFL, fine.

Here's a clip of the Skins game against the Bucs highlighting all of the passing plays. Notice how the playcalls and scheme have little resemblance to the gameplan against the Giants.

No options. Nothing gimmicky.
This is Mike/Kyle's basic play action, bootleg passing game.

The Skins offense is so multiple that if you aren't watching more than a handful of games, you really don't get that the scheme can literally be flipped on its head from one game to another.

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Old 12-05-2012, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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Not trying to kill your vibe on your QB but if I'm being perfectly honest, that was underwhelming, especially considering the stats. He maybe made one above average throw in the first 9:30 minutes of that video I watched. The rest were slants, open throws to the flat or dump offs. It felt like watching a fast Matt Barkley.
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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Wait, you're telling me Mark Sanchez ISN'T a steallar QB? Mind blown. But seriously, stellar was the wrong word for Vince Young. But people were talking about how great Young was after his rookie season (deserved or not) and we all know how he turned out.

My thing with RGIII is a lot of his numbers are inflated by the system he is in. In the games I've watched of his, so many of his passes are behind the line of scrimmage or just beyond. Not that hard to complete those. He doesn't throw many picks because 90% of what he does is so low risk. Defenses will adjust next year so that the Redskins will have to do more things down field, over the middle, and higher risk. How RGIII adjusts to that different style will go a long way in answering this question.
Quoted for truth. People are all over his nuts just like they were for Newton last year. Defenses adjusted to the Panthers offense just like they will for the Redskins in year two.

Luck pwns all
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jrdrylie View Post
My thing with RGIII is a lot of his numbers are inflated by the system he is in. In the games I've watched of his, so many of his passes are behind the line of scrimmage or just beyond. Not that hard to complete those. He doesn't throw many picks because 90% of what he does is so low risk. Defenses will adjust next year so that the Redskins will have to do more things down field, over the middle, and higher risk. How RGIII adjusts to that different style will go a long way in answering this question.
It's a strange thing that in college, we take all stats with a grain of salt with system, style of play, level of competition, etc. where as in NFL, it feels like a lot of people act like all stats are created equal. Those variables are smaller factors when you get the pros but it's silly to think that numbers can't be inflated due to system too.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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Actually I believe there was rumors of the Browns considering to trade a few picks for Bradford... If they could've gotten the 22nd, a future 1st, and a third for Bradford that would've been optimum.

At the time though you can't fault them, they can really build their team with elite talent from those picks from Washington. Bradford had a pretty decent rookie season, I think they owe him some time with improved receivers and pass blockers.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, I see in Bradford I see Alex Smith 2.0 in terms of career path. Although, Fisher may be able to provide him some stability that Smith never had.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:20 AM    (permalink
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Honestly, I see in Bradford I see Alex Smith 2.0 in terms of career path. Although, Fisher may be able to provide him some stability that Smith never had.
same size, athletic, lower level arm strength, played in a gimmicky college offense, and has a history with shoulder problems

ive made the comparison for years.

they should regret it imo, i said that when they traded it. They should have moved bradford to the browns and give shurmur his boy
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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Depends on what they could have gotten for Bradford. As good as RG3 has been, he landed with the perfect coach, and eventually he's going to have to make adjustments as defenses figure out how to play him. He also comes with the injury risk. So, yeah, he's probably better than Bradford. But combined with the haul the Rams got, the fact that Shanahan >>>> Schotty, and the fact Bradford might actually be a good QB going forward, it's not such a simple answer.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:33 PM    (permalink
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Bradford is making great strides. Remember, this is his 3rd offensive system in 3 years. He has very few weapons and a poor o-line. When he has Amendola healthy, Sam lights it up. Imagine if he had a true #1 WR? Also, last years high ankle sprain really set him back. Practically ruined his sophomore season. He throws a beautiful ball and is very accurate. The only problem is, his WR's seldom get separation. He has been fighting an up hill battle his entire career in St.Louis so far. But there is no questioning his talent. He has great talent. All the tools.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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I think they do.

Regardless of how well Bradford is/can/will do, RGIII is on a different level.

Immediately, he's the best player on the field. Bradford might be pretty good, but he doesn't have THAT going for him.

It sucks because if Bradford's contract was anywhere near workable, they probably would have traded him or just kept both.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Anyone saying they do without knowing what comes out of those picks that they got in return isnt true to the draft.
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