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Old 01-24-2013, 09:40 AM    (permalink
Zycho32
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Default NFL All-Time Teams, Decade by Decade

So, I like making All-Time teams. I'm broken in the head enough to obsess over them. We're talking mildly creepy levels of obsession here.

Okay, I'm probably exaggerating that level of commitment, but enough of my mental issues. This thread will basically be my attempts to create a series of All-Time teams during each and every decade of the NFL's existence.

Here are a few points to consider.

-I'm going to make a team for each decade, simply because both the athletic standards and playcalling innovations changed too frequently to allow for much decade integration, so I can't really classify player pools into 'Eras' like I initially wanted to.
-Yes, I am well aware that the Hall of Fame, or at least a committee from it, has already made their own all-decade teams. This isn't quite the same, since the rosters selected will be as often as possible based not purely on merit, but by an ability to integrate into a solid unit with as little griping over PT or locker room feuds as humanly possible. In short, I'm building a football squad that has the best chance of winning a game if the planet depended on it. (Basically playing for the survival of the planet is the ultimate Gut-Check for any athlete and separates the winners from the folders)
-Players are selected upon "Wine Cellar" rules, a term coined by Bill Simmons when he created his all-time NBA lineup. Basically it means A specific player will likely be different from one particular year to another. For instance, Red Grange in 1925 was a dynamo at Halfback, all but unstoppable. But Red Grange anytime after 1927 when he suffered a horrific injury will simply be a run-of-the-mill Halfback and not worth a selection, unless you like a reserve defensive back, which he was quite good at. So, select a player, then select the year that player participated. That's Wine Cellar rules.
-Everybody else is perfectly free to come up with their own lists, or critique others. Even my own. (Yes, you have that freedom anyway, but I'm not going to boil over with hatred if you critique me. As far as I'm concerned, any enlightenment can only help my understanding).


I am going to start off with the 1920's, and while my roster is nowhere near complete there, I would like to express one major concern that comes to mind when going over this decade.

Coaches and their Offensive Formations.
http://www.hickoksports.com/history/...ations01.shtml

That page gives you a real good detail, but to summarize the problems;

-The standard Single Wing offense thrived on imbalanced lines and wasn't an ideal passing formation, not good for a balanced offense (nevermind the passing rules which were just a step up form Rugby, or the fatter ball).
-George Halas was about the only one to use the T-Formation exclusively, which needed God-Like Halfbacks to be effective, since everyone was tightly packed on the line and the backfield was packed in the center.
-Curly Lambeau was the only one to use the Notre Dame Box, which was a properly balanced Single Wing that used deception and switched players around on the backfield. Better for balancing.
-Any team that had Ernie Nevers used the Double-Wing, which involved a lot of potential trickery but only used the Fullback as the primary runner and passer. A nice wrinkle to have, but nobody else used it.

It actually gets worse, since teams really only had one coach, and while you could get away with multiple coaches, who has the overall command? Some coaches just plain hated each other, like Halas and Lambeau, which makes a Notre Dame/T-Formation hybrid nearly impossible. Others also doubled as players, like Guy Chamberlin and Jimmy Conzelman, which raises concerns about the pecking order in the lineup.

...I'd better stop this here before my rambling actually gets worse. I await any imput you may have and I'll have this first roster ready soon.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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Speaking of all time greats, I was watching some youtube clips of Lawrence Taylor, and I want to share them with you all.

Just watch these clips. It's amazing how dominant he was.









My favorite is when they put him at CB vs NO. I remember once growing up, watching the Giants play the 49ers, and every time they put Jerry Rice in the slot the Giants put LT on him. LT shut him down.

He was that kind of monster.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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My favorite is when they put him at CB vs NO. I remember once growing up, watching the Giants play the 49ers, and every time they put Jerry Rice in the slot the Giants put LT on him. LT shut him down.

He was that kind of monster.
It makes me laugh when people say Ray Lewis is the greatest linebacker of all-time. If Matrix were here, he'd laugh too.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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It makes me laugh when people say Ray Lewis is the greatest linebacker of all-time. If Matrix were here, he'd laugh too.
To be fair to them, most of those people are too young to remember LT. I think Ray is the greatest MIKE of all time, but LT was just in another league.

LT was the greatest defender of all time, regardless of position.

Only player ever to be DPOY his rookie year. The man was the best defender in the league the second he stepped on the field.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:00 AM    (permalink
The Alex
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To be fair to them, most of those people are too young to remember LT. I think Ray is the greatest MIKE of all time, but LT was just in another league.

LT was the greatest defender of all time, regardless of position.

Only player ever to be DPOY his rookie year. The man was the best defender in the league the second he stepped on the field.
I'm too young to remember LT but the footage and legacy speaks loud enough that it's clear nobody touches him in defensive dominance. Although, Deacon Jones supposedly put up something like 50 sacks in a two year span by his own estimation so that's pretty phenomenal too.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 01-24-2013, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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To be fair to them, most of those people are too young to remember LT. I think Ray is the greatest MIKE of all time, but LT was just in another league.

LT was the greatest defender of all time, regardless of position.

Only player ever to be DPOY his rookie year. The man was the best defender in the league the second he stepped on the field.
If i had to rate Ray Lewis with the alltime greats at MLB i'd probably have him 5th behind:

Dick Butkus
Jack Lambert
Curly Culp
Harry Carson
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Old 01-24-2013, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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If i had to rate Ray Lewis with the alltime greats at MLB i'd probably have him 5th behind:

Dick Butkus
Jack Lambert
Curly Culp
Harry Carson
Jerod Mayo???
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:15 PM    (permalink
Eazy Picks
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If i had to rate Ray Lewis with the alltime greats at MLB i'd probably have him 5th behind:

Dick Butkus
Jack Lambert
Curly Culp
Harry Carson
Lol...Ray Lewis hands down best MLB of all time. None of those guys compare to him. His on-field production over the course of his long career and the way he carried the Ravens to the first SB already earned him that distinction. The way he came back early from a triceps injury that he was supposed to miss the season b/c off and motivated his team to play their best football and never quit and led his team on a SB run that nobody gave them any chance of making cemented his legacy. Arguably the greatest motivator of men in the history of professional sports. His work ethic was second to none. The Ravens have been a force for the entirety of his career and he has been the one constant. Ive been watching Ray Lewis his whole career and watch every game of his that I can when hes on TV cuz hes so much fun to watch and Im thinking Ive seen him make about 1000 tackles and miss about 5 total tackles over those years.
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:08 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
If i had to rate Ray Lewis with the alltime greats at MLB i'd probably have him 5th behind:

Dick Butkus
Jack Lambert
Curly Culp
Harry Carson
Curley Culp wasn't a MLB. He was a NT in a 3-4 with the Chiefs, and then the Oilers.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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It makes me laugh when people say Ray Lewis is the greatest linebacker of all-time. If Matrix were here, he'd laugh too.
Also, alot of people (like myself) classify Ray Lewis and LT as two completely different positions. While they both played LB, when I say best LB I'm talking traditional 4-3 LB. When I'm talking LT I'm thinking pass rushing LB. While there is some overlap in responsibilities, I think we can all agree Ray Lewis and LT played to very different positions and had different skill sets that make them hard to compare.

That said, LT was the best defensive player of all time.
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Old 01-24-2013, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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The linebacker debate thread.
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Old 01-24-2013, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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There's no way Harry Carson was better than Ray Lewis.

I think Ray propelled himself above Butkus, Lambert and Singletary. Singletary couldn't defend the pass all that well. So Ray beats him by default.

Lambert was great as was Butkus, but what gives Lewis the edge is his versatility. Lewis has been dominant in multiple fronts and schemes, and he's every bit the run stuffer that Butkus and Lambert were, every bit the leader, every bit the intellect, while being a far superior pass coverage backer than both of them.

Ray was just better than them. I gotta give the nod to Ray. You can debate Butkus and Lambert. But he's definitely better than Singletary.
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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There's no way Harry Carson was better than Ray Lewis.

I think Ray propelled himself above Butkus, Lambert and Singletary. Singletary couldn't defend the pass all that well. So Ray beats him by default.

Lambert was great as was Butkus, but what gives Lewis the edge is his versatility. Lewis has been dominant in multiple fronts and schemes, and he's every bit the run stuffer that Butkus and Lambert were, every bit the leader, every bit the intellect, while being a far superior pass coverage backer than both of them.

Ray was just better than them. I gotta give the nod to Ray. You can debate Butkus and Lambert. But he's definitely better than Singletary.
Seau was the greatest IMO, but to each their own.

In his prime, like '91-'97. he was more disruptive than Ray Lewis ever was. People forget the physical freak that Seau was, and he combined that with some of best instincts we've ever seen at the LB position. Like Parcells used to do with LT, San Diego used to just turn Seau loose because he was such a special playmaker. You don't see that often at the NFL level, guys that can just take over and as an offense there's nothing you can do to stop it, but Seau was one of them.

Last edited by TheFinisher : 01-27-2013 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:29 AM    (permalink
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There's no way Harry Carson was better than Ray Lewis.

I think Ray propelled himself above Butkus, Lambert and Singletary. Singletary couldn't defend the pass all that well. So Ray beats him by default.

Lambert was great as was Butkus, but what gives Lewis the edge is his versatility. Lewis has been dominant in multiple fronts and schemes, and he's every bit the run stuffer that Butkus and Lambert were, every bit the leader, every bit the intellect, while being a far superior pass coverage backer than both of them.

Ray was just better than them. I gotta give the nod to Ray. You can debate Butkus and Lambert. But he's definitely better than Singletary.
I don't think you can even compare these guys. Butkus, Lambert and Singletary all played in eras where the run dominated the game and a MLB was required to stop the run as his first priority. Lewis played in an era where stopping the pass became the top priority changing forever how a MLB plays the game.
Lewis played in a 3-4 defense where the DL kept him clean to make the tackle unopposed. Lewis was definitely the best in dropping into coverage but I don't think he matches up as well as a run defender.
Really, comparing different eras is just a waste of time and you can say that for every position.
Up until the 50's, a RB had to be on the ground and held there before the play stopped, even if he was tackled, he could still get up and continue his run as the game of football still retained a lot of Rugby rules.
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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What's up guys?
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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Navarro Bowman is better than him.
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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Navarro Bowman is better than him.
Not in coverage. And Bowman is pretty good in coverage.
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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Not in coverage.
Really? I would imagine he is. When the 49ers go 4 wide, Bow is the only LB on the field. They take Willis off the field.

And from what I've seen, I've always felt he was better in coverage. Can you elaborate?
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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Really? I would imagine he is. When the 49ers go 4 wide, Bow is the only LB on the field. They take Willis off the field.

And from what I've seen, I've always felt he was better in coverage. Can you elaborate?
You're right. He is taken off the field at times. I'm talking about one on ones. When the 49ers aren't spread out as much, or even like on Sunday during the times when there is a dynamic tight end, Willis is usually tasked with the coverage duties. They are interchanged at times, but from what I've seen with one on one matchups, Willis over the last two years since Bowman has been a starter has shined a tad more.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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Navarro Bowman is better than him.
I am a huge Bowman fan but I do not think he is better than Willis. I may be biased but I feel like a lot of people think Bowman has surpassed Willis and I just don't think so. Both great players but I think Willis is the best MLB in the game.
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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Where does Aaron Curry rank in this conversation? I'd imagine top 7 atleast.
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Old 01-24-2013, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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Well, I think Willis is the superior blitzer, and I think he's the better run stuffer bc he can thump better than Bowman, but he doesn't have Bowman's range in coverage.

I think sideline to sideline they're close but Bowman is a tad better. And while Bow isn't as good of a blitzer or thumper as Willis he's very very close.

So I give Bow the nod bc he's better in coverage.

It's so damn close though. They literally are 1A and 1B when it comes to best ILBs in the league. And they happen to play for the same team. Ridiculous.
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Old 01-24-2013, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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Boy, you all just took a massive **** on this thread, eh?
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Old 01-24-2013, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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I don't like your sig.

#KnicksIn2013
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Old 01-24-2013, 05:40 PM    (permalink
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I don't like your sig.

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Yeah, that was looking good for about a month.
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