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Old 02-12-2013, 09:51 AM    (permalink
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Default Sell Me On Eddie Lacy

I just don't see it.


He does have some things I like about his game. He's got great footwork, balance, and patience. I really love watching his feet when he runs because he doesn't run like a big back but he can utilize his power when he needs to. Still with the lanes he had to run through, it's hard for me to gauge what I'm actually seeing. Can he create if he didn't have massive lanes to run through like a great back has to do? I'm not sure. I don't think he's a terrible RB, I guess he just doesn't strike me as anything more then average.


On a high end I see a lot of Shaun Alexander in his game, but on the same token I see a lot of Shonn Greene also. He does really impress me in that he can make defenders miss vs just plowing through everyone with his frame, but I am having a hard time buying him being a successful RB. I just don't come away very impressed when I watch him, never have, and it makes it that much tougher when he's got a 4-5 yard head start on nearly every carry, I wanted to see him create more on his own.


Where are most people on him? Can he be a stud, workhorse type of back if he goes to Atlanta? Is he a decent power back to pair with a speedy back? Pro bowl potential?
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:58 AM    (permalink
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He's from Alabama.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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He's been banged up some but he has a lot less carries on him than your average top RB prospect. I think he could be one of those guys who goes to the pros and really surprises people, the only thing that scares me with him is injuries.

He is a violent runner and likes to deliver blows, but that obviously will not cope well with his injury concerns. I think he can do everything Ingram was heralded for coming out of Bama but is a much more powerful runner. He wasn't really asked to be a factor as a receiver but I think he will end up being a guy who can make plays in the passing game if given a chance. I see how some people could put him in a Shonn Greene category, but I like him way more than that. He can break a big run and can make people miss with more than just pure power, but from a pure power perspective you can't ask for much more. His "curse" is following in the footsteps of Trent Richardson and everyone is measuring Lacy to him. Richardson is the better prospect but I don't think there is as much seperation as some people are making there out to be.

I'm a fan of Lacy. He may not be a 4.3 breakaway speed type running back, but if he stays healthy I think he can be a very good pro back. Career longevity is a concern but I wouldn't be surprised to see someone pull the trigger on him in the back half of the first round.
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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He looks good to me, but I wouldn't be shocked if we look back 3 years from now and conclude he was overrated. He was surrounded by a lot of talent in college. I thought Ingram looked good too.
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:24 AM    (permalink
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When you can pair the combination of his size (Listed at 6'0, 220,) with his elusiveness and foot speed, you get a deadly combination. We have seen plenty of big backs (Shonn Greene is over 225,). We have seen plenty of backs with great foot speed (Kendall Hunter for example,) but that combination is rare. Lacy does play pretty physically, but he often uses his feet to sidestep defenders and make them miss tackles instead of giving deadly blows.

The injury concern is def. a big one. I can't knock anyone for lowering Lacy or Bernard on their boards for that. I do feel Lacy plays with a lower pad level than many of these "bruisers" (including Trent Richardson,) and it might help him stay healthier. He isn't Ryan Mathews hurt, but he is far from the healthiest cat at a physical position.
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:13 PM    (permalink
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I know it's tough to gauge sometimes when you're running behind arguably the best offensive line in college history but he looks like a flat out stud to me.

Wouldn't be shocked to see him grabbed by the Rams to eventually replace an aging Steven Jackson.
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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Agree with the OP.
Maybe I haven't seen Lacy play enough, but I have no clue about his vision, which I think is the most important trait for a RB; the ability to see angles and open space once he takes the handoff and run to daylight.

He def looks the part.

Once Alfred Morris earned the starting gig for the Skins, I realized even for a physical back like Almo who initiates so much contact, he can cut and make a defender miss. In the hole or the open field.

It's kind of scary to me that none of those 4-5 star RBs from Alabama under Saban have burst out big in the pros, although it's still early for Trent Richardson.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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I still need to see how fast a 40 he runs before anointing him as special but he is close on his running ability alone. You cannot teach the spin move he uses which indicates exceptional quickness to me. I do agree that you have to be careful where you draft him because of the exceptional OL he had at Alabama which consistently opened big holes for him. I want to see more of him at the Combine before being sure of how high his ceiling is, but if he produces at the combine, he will be a guaranteed 1st rounder and the first RB picked.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:49 PM    (permalink
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Exceptional burst, agility and size-catches some. Maby it's the dreads, but looks like a smaller Steven Jackson to me.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:52 PM    (permalink
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Chris Ivory Clone
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:54 PM    (permalink
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Chris Ivory Clone
Kinda.

Just read a second ago that Ivory has a career 5.1 ypc avg. What the ****. He's one of the best pure runners in the league. Sorry for going off topic it just sucks that so many teams could use him and he's stuck on the Saints.

As for Lacy, he's a way more violent Shaun Alexander. He could be special if he stays healthy.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:24 AM    (permalink
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Ingram 2.0
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:28 AM    (permalink
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I'll be very curious to see what this guy runs, I liked Ingram better actually, but the jury is still out on that optimism.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:52 AM    (permalink
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So I hadn't had an especially positive view of Eddie Lacy, either, thinking he was benefitting from some "Alabama RB" hype, and knew that Alabama has recently established itself as producing elite offensive linemen. But, perhaps because of that, I hadn't watched a lot of film, so I watched these and took some notes.




Tree trunk build
Strong
Fast (enough).
Smooth athlete, shiftier than you think

defenders aren't eager to tackle him
He punishes defenses. Just runs with a lean and doesn't slow down in crowded quarters.

Really takes advantage of his size and power by taking good angles, where he is in a good posture to deliver punishment and gain extra yards.

Never gets tackled for a loss.

Strong legs. Arm tackles don't really work.

His spin is more like the reverse of an alligator doing the death role, but is similarly effective in achieving its purpose; if he doesn't tear the defender off of him using centrifugal force, he at least gets a couple extra yards.

Is someone you're comfortable giving the ball to in short yardage situations. Can create in very limited space because of his vision and ability to see the best place to run and get there at top speed.

Doesn't wow you with his hands.

His finesse moves work because defenders are on their heels.

Gives no *****.

Guy loves running through a defense like a maniac.

Runs very composed. Looks at defenders as individuals, and picks his moves according to how the nearest defender is playing him

Hits holes hard even when they are not holes. at first.

Is always dragging defenders. Delivers blows and keeps his legs churning.

Good balance.

I'm really impressed at this point. He has not let up for a second in all of the games I've watched, which is at about 5 now consecutively.

Looks a little awkward receiving passes.

Barkevious Mingo got him.

Tore through about half of LSU's defense for a first down having had 10 to go.

After watching those games, I see a player who is both very powerful and runs well, delivering big hits but not taking them, and who also possesses the speed and quickness to eat up big chunks of yards. The comparison that comes most strikingly to mind, now, is Marshawn Lynch. I think Eddie Lacy is a more impressive athlete than I initially gave him credit for, and I also believe he is going to run hard. I'm not sure Green Bay is a very good fit for him, but he could give Falcons fans vintage Michael Turner flashbacks. I'd be less than stoked to see him on the Rams, because he's exactly what they need.

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Old 02-13-2013, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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I think comparing him to Marshawn Lynch is a little insulting to Lynch. Lynch has very good speed (4.45) and much better agility / lateral movement. Lynch also has the physicality to match Lacy's best attribute, with a great stiff arm. I was always disappointed with Lynch's career up until recently, because he was a Top 10 prospect on my board when he came out. And I thought he was very close to Adrian Peterson when they were in the same draft. He was a great talent and very good athlete coming out. He also had elite production and game breaking ability, which has translated to the next level.

Lynch is a supremely gifted RB. And he's unarguably the second best RB in the NFL right now. That is a hefty comparison. Lynch is one of the most talented runners in the league. I don't think Lacy will step foot on the field and be one of the most talented RBs in the NFL from day one.

Lacy has admirable qualities and I think he'll run better than most are expecting, but he's not overly talented and doesn't have long speed. He'll be a good player, but I'd be surprised to him become as good as a Marshawn Lynch. I think Chris Ivory is a much better comparison.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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I think comparing him to Marshawn Lynch is a little insulting to Lynch. Lynch has very good speed (4.45) and much better agility / lateral movement. Lynch also has the physicality to match Lacy's best attribute, with a great stiff arm. I was always disappointed with Lynch's career up until recently, because he was a Top 10 prospect on my board when he came out. And I thought he was very close to Adrian Peterson when they were in the same draft. He was a great talent and very good athlete coming out. He also had elite production and game breaking ability, which has translated to the next level.

Lynch is a supremely gifted RB. And he's unarguably the second best RB in the NFL right now. That is a hefty comparison. Lynch is one of the most talented runners in the league. I don't think Lacy will step foot on the field and be one of the most talented RBs in the NFL from day one.

Lacy has admirable qualities and I think he'll run better than most are expecting, but he's not overly talented and doesn't have long speed. He'll be a good player, but I'd be surprised to him become as good as a Marshawn Lynch. I think Chris Ivory is a much better comparison.
It can be somewhere in-between I think. Michael Turner was a name brought up earlier, and that is an apt comparison for Turner's younger days. Lacy isn't as big per say, but has the similar play of evading tackles while still being able to punish.

Comparisons aren't perfect, they never are.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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Shonn Greene would be a good back in a ZBS, with a competent QB.

Just wanted to say that.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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I don't understand the Shaun Alexander comparison. Lacy loves punishing defenses, Alexander was soft as hell.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by holt_bruce81 View Post
I don't understand the Shaun Alexander comparison. Lacy loves punishing defenses, Alexander was soft as hell.
Did you ever watch him at Alabama? You might change your mind, soft was the last thing you would call him. Maybe his last few years in the league sure. There are a ton of similiarities on their College tape. Also it's not like Lacy just plows into guys, that's one thing that does seperate him from a Shonn Greene which I do like, he avoids most defenders and shows some good elusiveness. Best comparison that I saw as a positive was Michael Bush at Louisville, but the running style of him and a young Shaun Alexander look pretty similiar.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by holt_bruce81 View Post
I don't understand the Shaun Alexander comparison. Lacy loves punishing defenses, Alexander was soft as hell.
I see Fred Taylor v2.0
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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I don't think he's going to run a 4.40. That's Adrian Peterson fast, and he's not that. I compared him to Marshawn on a stylistic basis, not that I think he's going to come into the league and immediately run for 100 yards a game and post double-digit touchdowns. But I don't think it's out of his reach. I think Marshawn's got an edge in suddenness and explosiveness, but that's why I juxtaposed it with the Michael Turner comparison. I feel like prospect comparisons are more accurate when you compare a prospect to more than one player. I might say he's closer in skillset to Michael Turner but closer in attitude to Marshawn. He's got that mentality of never giving up on a run. I think for a few teams he's a first round option, but I wouldn't necessarily slap a "first round" grade on him given the demand for and availability of running backs. I think if a power-running team can nab him in the second they'll be really happy.

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Old 02-13-2013, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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Peterson was mid to high 4.3's, I thought. Either way, there's a pretty big difference between 4.38 and 4.42. Bigger than the difference between 4.46 and 4.42, for instance, because the lower the time, the more advantage one gets from each hundredth, because it's so much harder to move up as the times get faster and faster.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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Peterson was mid to high 4.3's, I thought. Either way, there's a pretty big difference between 4.38 and 4.42. Bigger than the difference between 4.46 and 4.42, for instance, because the lower the time, the more advantage one gets from each hundredth, because it's so much harder to move up as the times get faster and faster.
No there isn't. That's minimal speed and at that point short area quickness and acceleration are far more important. That's the difference between a good start and a bad start, or a guy who trained with track coaches to run a 40 out of that position and guys who didn't. It's funny how we cling to those times but you only get 2 chances to run them at the combine. Everybody knows Kendall Wright is faster then the time he ran.


Then some guys just have game speed. I remember when Dez ran his pro day one time was a 4.52, another was a high 4.6. It happens sometimes and all it taes is a few plays of watching him to realize he's not anywhere near a 4.6 guy. I'm not even really clinging to the 40 time of Lacy(though he hasn't showed me he's anything near a low 4.4 guy) I'd be paying more attention to his 3 cone drill. He's not going to be a home run hitter anyway, if he can consistently move the chains I think teams will be happy with him.


I think I would have some concerns depending on where he goes, for instance if Arizona drafts him I'm not sure I see him being able to create a ton of running lanes for himself. I know all good backs need some sort of blocking, but I like for my RB's to be able to create plays on their own. If you watch Demarco Murray he has to make a ton of plays on his own because of the piss poor interior blocking we have, I'm not sure Lacy will be able to be that type of back. Once you get him going up field in some space he does have some nice moves.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:49 PM    (permalink
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No there isn't. That's minimal speed and at that point short area quickness and acceleration are far more important. That's the difference between a good start and a bad start, or a guy who trained with track coaches to run a 40 out of that position and guys who didn't. It's funny how we cling to those times but you only get 2 chances to run them at the combine. Everybody knows Kendall Wright is faster then the time he ran.


Then some guys just have game speed. I remember when Dez ran his pro day one time was a 4.52, another was a high 4.6. It happens sometimes and all it taes is a few plays of watching him to realize he's not anywhere near a 4.6 guy. I'm not even really clinging to the 40 time of Lacy(though he hasn't showed me he's anything near a low 4.4 guy) I'd be paying more attention to his 3 cone drill. He's not going to be a home run hitter anyway, if he can consistently move the chains I think teams will be happy with him.


I think I would have some concerns depending on where he goes, for instance if Arizona drafts him I'm not sure I see him being able to create a ton of running lanes for himself. I know all good backs need some sort of blocking, but I like for my RB's to be able to create plays on their own. If you watch Demarco Murray he has to make a ton of plays on his own because of the piss poor interior blocking we have, I'm not sure Lacy will be able to be that type of back. Once you get him going up field in some space he does have some nice moves.
I really don't think that's "minimal speed". It certainly could be the difference between a good and bad start, or between start stances, but it could also be the difference top speeds, which can obviously translate onto the field. The difference between a home run and something much less can be minimal. And differences in start ability can translate onto the field anyway--sure they don't start from a 3 point on the field, but there's obviously something of a correlation between 40 start speed and speed through the hole. I agree that 40 times are probably over-hyped, but sub 4.4 isn't regarded as a milestone without good reason.
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:58 PM    (permalink
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Player's times can fluctuate pretty widely from year to year or track to track. There are a lot of players who run 0.05-0.1 seconds faster from the combine to their pro days, and there are plenty of players who train specifically to run fast at the combine and that speed never shows up in the NFL. I'm just going to disagree that there's a big difference between 4.38 and 4.42. I'm going to be inclined to call anyone who runs either of those a 4.40 guy, because despite the appearance of being a concrete metric, 40 times are really more an estimation of a player's speed. I suspect Lacy is in the mid 4.5s, but I thought the same thing about Mark Ingram and it turned out that he just plays at a very high percentage of his maximum threshold, which is something that running down a track obviously cannot measure. Players do not actually run at full speed most of the time; for running backs the 40 is mostly important just to gauge whether he is a home-run threat or if he's likely to get caught from behind after breaking into the open. It's not going to affect my opinion of Lacy negatively if he's around 4.60, but if he does run sub-4.5 there's going to be some buzzing.

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