Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > 2014 NFL Draft Forum

2014 NFL Draft Forum Discuss the 2014 NFL Draft

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-27-2013, 03:38 PM    (permalink
BallerT1215
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South Florida
Posts: 7,240
Reputation: 1824401
BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default Top 10 Pick : BPA or Positional Need

I have been meaning to make this thread since I heard Mike Mayock during the combine 2 days ago.

To summarize him, he basically said if you are in the top 10 you need to draft a Pro Bowler regardless of position. That player has to be a star and immediate impact, regardless of need. Basically, he is saying you dont reach for best player at your NEED but you take best player on your board whether you need him or not if you are sure he will be a future Pro Bowler.

What are your thoughts on this?


As a Bills fan, I've grown accustomed to top 10 picks and while I understand what Mayock is saying about getting a cant miss prospect, I don't think you can just take the best player especially if you are set at that position.
__________________

Sig by the King BK


Fear the Spear - Winston Era has begun....
Quote:
"I wasn't going to lose to Miami, no matter what," Freeman said. "It means a lot to go out there and beat them. Every time I get a chance, I want to destroy them."
BallerT1215 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 04:39 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,163
Reputation: 307331
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Drafting top 10, you have to take the BPA otherwise you will end up paying an average starter a star's salary and you won't even be able to retain him when he becomes a FA because you won't want to pay him that amount of money.

BPA doesn't mean a team doesn't have choices, players are grouped by talent and in every group there can be up to 10 players who are all around the same ranking, so a team still has plenty of choices when they pick, even if the position isn't totally ideal for them. To draft for need means you are skipping over the next group of players and you are drafting a prospect who is potentially 20X lower ranked than the group you should be selecting from.

BPA is never just one guy, it is always a group of prospects ranked pretty close in talent.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 04:55 PM    (permalink
JT Jag
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,652
Reputation: 83184
JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Combination of both. Top 10, you're probably there for a reason, so you need an immediate impact player. Some teams don't have the time to drop a top ten draft pick on a developmental guy, even if he's at the top of their board. So you pick the best guy who plays a position that you have a hole in.

This isn't to say that you go out of your way to reach for the best player who plays at your biggest need position. But if you have three general significant needs going into the draft, you pick the best player who plays one of those roles in the top 10.

Better teams get to be more flexible in this regard, but there's really no such thing as a team that truly drafts BPA. Everyone considers need to a degree when they are drafting.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bored of education View Post
MJD is an exception to every rule.
JT Jag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 05:00 PM    (permalink
descendency
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NC State
Posts: 8,128
Reputation: 986277
descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.descendency is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Best Player available, 100% of the time. 100%. If you are top 10, it's because you suck. You need players at every position. No player is limited to one position, except maybe a QB. But if that QB is that good, you should be able to trade down/out and rake in a fortune.
__________________
I was gone for 2 months doing things I can't talk about. It might happen again, but that's just the nature of what I do and who I am.
descendency is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 06:24 PM    (permalink
stlouisfan37
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,230
Reputation: 163516
stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by descendency View Post
Best Player available, 100% of the time. 100%. If you are top 10, it's because you suck. You need players at every position. No player is limited to one position, except maybe a QB. But if that QB is that good, you should be able to trade down/out and rake in a fortune.
I fully agree. The most talented teams take the BPA throughout the draft, they don't worry about who they do and don't have already. Take the best player and find a way to use him to make your team better. Over the course of time all your needs will be filled and you will have talent and depth throughout your roster. The 49ers have done this and it is the reason why they are talking about trading for Revis, because they have more draft picks than roster spots for young players.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl---s...211130553.html
stlouisfan37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 08:55 PM    (permalink
JT Jag
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,652
Reputation: 83184
JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

It's short sighted to say that teams should or do go BPA 100% of the time. It's a lovely idea, but impractical. Say a team has a 26 year old all pro defensive tackle, and they just drafted a tackle in the second round last year. The #1 player on their board is a run-stuffing tackle, he'll only be able to play tackle and you already have lots of money tied up at that position.

The #2 player is a cornerback and both of your starting cornerbacks from last year are free agents.

No one takes the "best available player" in this scenario. Not a single general manager in the NFL. They will take the best player for their team, though.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bored of education View Post
MJD is an exception to every rule.
JT Jag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 07:04 PM    (permalink
BallerT1215
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South Florida
Posts: 7,240
Reputation: 1824401
BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Jag View Post
It's short sighted to say that teams should or do go BPA 100% of the time. It's a lovely idea, but impractical. Say a team has a 26 year old all pro defensive tackle, and they just drafted a tackle in the second round last year. The #1 player on their board is a run-stuffing tackle, he'll only be able to play tackle and you already have lots of money tied up at that position.

The #2 player is a cornerback and both of your starting cornerbacks from last year are free agents.

No one takes the "best available player" in this scenario. Not a single general manager in the NFL. They will take the best player for their team, though.
This is pretty much where i stand on the question.
__________________

Sig by the King BK


Fear the Spear - Winston Era has begun....
Quote:
"I wasn't going to lose to Miami, no matter what," Freeman said. "It means a lot to go out there and beat them. Every time I get a chance, I want to destroy them."
BallerT1215 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 07:37 PM    (permalink
thebow305
2009 NFL Mock Draft Champ
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: South Florida
Posts: 8,709
Reputation: 335869
thebow305 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thebow305 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thebow305 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thebow305 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thebow305 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thebow305 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thebow305 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thebow305 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thebow305 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thebow305 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thebow305 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Jag View Post
It's short sighted to say that teams should or do go BPA 100% of the time. It's a lovely idea, but impractical. Say a team has a 26 year old all pro defensive tackle, and they just drafted a tackle in the second round last year. The #1 player on their board is a run-stuffing tackle, he'll only be able to play tackle and you already have lots of money tied up at that position.

The #2 player is a cornerback and both of your starting cornerbacks from last year are free agents.

No one takes the "best available player" in this scenario. Not a single general manager in the NFL. They will take the best player for their team, though.
It also depends on the disparity between the top players considered for the pick, as well as the depth at each position in that given year. Sometimes positions in a draft are loaded while others are top heavy. This may cause teams to reach for a player because they are afraid of the position falling off a cliff at a certain point and left without a real great alternative. Every team is different, but I agree with JT, if all things are the same and you have a greater need elsewhere, go with the need.

It's hard to argue for one side either way, because as a Bills fan, you know that C.J. Spiller was the BPA on the board when you took him. And it didn't seem like a logical move with F-Jax and Lynch already on the roster, but now just a few short years later, C.J. is the starter and a possible top 5 back.

It's hard to say that overall it made the team better though. Because here you are again drafting in the Top 10. So like I said, there's a strong argument for either side on this one.
__________________

Dolphins Dream Draft: 1. C.J. Mosley 2. Kelvin Benjamin 3. Ja'Wuan James 4. Brandon Thomas 5. Xavier Grimble 6. Tyler Gaffney 7. Ross Cockrell
thebow305 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 01:01 PM    (permalink
H.O.O.D
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 541
Reputation: 74434
H.O.O.D is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.H.O.O.D is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.H.O.O.D is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.H.O.O.D is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.H.O.O.D is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.H.O.O.D is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.H.O.O.D is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.H.O.O.D is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.H.O.O.D is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.H.O.O.D is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.H.O.O.D is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Jag View Post
It's short sighted to say that teams should or do go BPA 100% of the time. It's a lovely idea, but impractical. Say a team has a 26 year old all pro defensive tackle, and they just drafted a tackle in the second round last year. The #1 player on their board is a run-stuffing tackle, he'll only be able to play tackle and you already have lots of money tied up at that position.

The #2 player is a cornerback and both of your starting cornerbacks from last year are free agents.

No one takes the "best available player" in this scenario. Not a single general manager in the NFL. They will take the best player for their team, though.
One similar situation that came to mind was 2011 with Martin Mayhew though IDK what the Lions board exactly looked like ,they took a falling Nick Fairley who presented good value as the consensus was he was a top 10 pick. Prince Amukamara was still on the board and corner was a need for the Lions. Jimmy Smith was also on the board but did have character concerns and may have been dropped/flagged so it is understandable why he wasn't the pick.
__________________
H.O.O.D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 08:57 PM    (permalink
nepg
Icon
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 15,493
Reputation: 1811880
nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

It's always situational.

With the Alex Smith trade, everyone is basically going BPA anyway....
__________________
nepg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 09:19 PM    (permalink
SOnMyChest
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 22
Reputation: 10391
SOnMyChest is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SOnMyChest is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SOnMyChest is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SOnMyChest is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SOnMyChest is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SOnMyChest is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SOnMyChest is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SOnMyChest is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SOnMyChest is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SOnMyChest is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SOnMyChest is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

People get confused when they hear best player available. The Steelers draft using the best player available philosophy. What teams do first is develop a list of needs. The Steeler's needs are solely based off the holes in their roster. Once they determine their needs they are willing to select any of those positions with any of their picks solely based on who is the best player available. Just from a pure economic standpoint you will never see New England draft a tight end in the first
SOnMyChest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 07:43 PM    (permalink
Halsey
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cookeville,TN
Posts: 4,971
Reputation: 621344
Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

The whole BPA thing sounds good, but what does it really mean? When the Falcons drafted Matt Ryan many people said they should have taken Glen Dorsey or Darren McFadden because they were better players. Many people think Chance Warmack is the BPA of the 2013 Draft. Should the Chiefs take him #1? The whole BPA concept is oversimplified and not realistic.
__________________
What?
Halsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 09:05 PM    (permalink
rawdawg
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 979
Reputation: 174859
rawdawg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rawdawg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rawdawg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rawdawg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rawdawg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rawdawg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rawdawg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rawdawg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rawdawg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rawdawg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rawdawg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
The whole BPA thing sounds good, but what does it really mean? When the Falcons drafted Matt Ryan many people said they should have taken Glen Dorsey or Darren McFadden because they were better players. Many people think Chance Warmack is the BPA of the 2013 Draft. Should the Chiefs take him #1? The whole BPA concept is oversimplified and not realistic.
Agreed. Every single pick of the draft should be the best player available. But the best player available to one team is not the BPA for another team. And anyone who thinks need doesn't play into who a team thinks is the BPA is kidding themselves.
rawdawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 09:09 PM    (permalink
BallerT1215
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South Florida
Posts: 7,240
Reputation: 1824401
BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.BallerT1215 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rawdawg View Post
Agreed. Every single pick of the draft should be the best player available. But the best player available to one team is not the BPA for another team. And anyone who thinks need doesn't play into who a team thinks is the BPA is kidding themselves.
So if you got a guy rated highly at CB, you have a need at CB and you feel he is the best CB but as overall prospect you feel there is a couple ?'s and it could go a wrong way...

And there is an MLB that you are confident will be multiple pro bowler in his career and no ?'s as far as you are concerned but you already have a solid MLB on your team in year 2 of his 5 year contract...

You are going CB still?
__________________

Sig by the King BK


Fear the Spear - Winston Era has begun....
Quote:
"I wasn't going to lose to Miami, no matter what," Freeman said. "It means a lot to go out there and beat them. Every time I get a chance, I want to destroy them."
BallerT1215 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 07:05 PM    (permalink
rawdawg
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 979
Reputation: 174859
rawdawg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rawdawg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rawdawg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rawdawg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rawdawg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rawdawg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rawdawg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rawdawg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rawdawg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rawdawg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rawdawg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BallerT1215 View Post
So if you got a guy rated highly at CB, you have a need at CB and you feel he is the best CB but as overall prospect you feel there is a couple ?'s and it could go a wrong way...

And there is an MLB that you are confident will be multiple pro bowler in his career and no ?'s as far as you are concerned but you already have a solid MLB on your team in year 2 of his 5 year contract...

You are going CB still?
Yes, if the MLB is the #1 player on my board and the CB is within the top 3-5 players on my board. But my point is, the odds of that MLB being higher than the highly rated CB on that team's board is unlikely....unless it's a case of the LB really falling. Or unless that MLB can fill a need at one of the other LB spots.
rawdawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 01:58 PM    (permalink
wicket
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Posts: 8,860
Reputation: 249836
wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
The whole BPA thing sounds good, but what does it really mean? When the Falcons drafted Matt Ryan many people said they should have taken Glen Dorsey or Darren McFadden because they were better players. Many people think Chance Warmack is the BPA of the 2013 Draft. Should the Chiefs take him #1? The whole BPA concept is oversimplified and not realistic.
agreed, the whole concept BPA is a myth

Every pick is a judgement of value (so BPAishness), need, fit and possibly some external risk factors (character issues, injury history etc). And all these things need to be judged with every pick. Should the Colts draft Geno Smith if he happens to fall and he is the top prospect available. Hell no. Should my saints draft a running back in the first round if that guy is on top of their board. Hell no. But at the same time you should not restrict yourself to a single position (except maybe QB).
__________________


Saints 2014 draft wish list:
- No pass rusher till the fourth round (or preferably at all)
- Corner or Wideout in the first
- No reaching
- No Kelvin Benjamin
wicket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 07:53 PM    (permalink
Nastradamus
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,427
Reputation: 159834
Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Best value available is a better way to put it. That way, the proposed situation by JT Jag doesn't happen. DT will be lower on that team's value board.
Nastradamus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 09:09 PM    (permalink
JT Jag
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,652
Reputation: 83184
JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
Best value available is a better way to put it. That way, the proposed situation by JT Jag doesn't happen. DT will be lower on that team's value board.
Best value available. I like that. We should use that more often.

Because, see, Chance Warmack might very well be the best player in this draft. But he's not the best value, even if he becomes an all-pro for years. That's why he'll get drafted towards the back end of the top ten. Teams are catching on more in recent years that guards are valuable and occasionally worth a first round pick, but they will never be a premium position.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bored of education View Post
MJD is an exception to every rule.
JT Jag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 09:41 PM    (permalink
Brothgar
Team Leader
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 11,353
Reputation: 2502635
Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

In my opinion it isn't even that easy.

There are multiple factors that you need to look at outside of this is the best player on the board or this is our biggest need.

1. Positional value.
BPA could be a guard it also could be your biggest need. But it isn't that high value position.

2. Are you set on the position?
I know someone is going to bring up Michael Jordan being passed up by the Blazers because they already had Clyde Drexler but in spite of that I'm not 100% sure that they didn't make the right choice. Going strait for the BPA puts the concentration of talent in one area of the field generally. See the Detroit Lions also forces you to ignore several different red flags.

3. The Red Flags
Injuries, height weight speed, character.

These are all things that will drop players on your board. See Janoris Jenkins who was the top guy on the board from a football standpoint but that character made him fall.

If you are going to ask what areas are most important I'd say the red flags are the biggest ones. See Jarvis Jones in this draft or Dequan Bowers a few years ago or even Russell Wilson the second you add the red flag to a guy their stock will go down even if he is the best player available at the biggest position of need.
__________________
Stafford Sig by touchdownrams the rest of the sig by Sig Master Bone Krusher Avy by King of all avys renji


DEATH NOTE MAFIA SIGNUP!

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
Brothgar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 09:57 PM    (permalink
PossibleCabbage
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,094
Reputation: 241113
PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.PossibleCabbage is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Neither.

You take the player who adds the most value to your team. You don't take the best player available, since maybe that guy plays at a position of strength on your team and wouldn't beat out guys you've already got. You don't blindly fill needs because you don't want to take a player who's really not that good just because he's the best player at a "need" position.

You take the player who adds the most value to your team. To me, maximizing value includes considering three things in the following order: 1) This player is in or close to the top tier of talent available, 2) This player upgrades a position on our team more than other available comparably talented players would, 3) this player plays at at the most important position among the top talent who constitute significant upgrades.

If nothing else, this saves you from having to figure out who's "better" between two extremely dissimilar positions.

Last edited by PossibleCabbage : 02-28-2013 at 10:08 PM.
PossibleCabbage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2013, 11:28 PM    (permalink
ph90702
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,023
Reputation: 31358
ph90702 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ph90702 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ph90702 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ph90702 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ph90702 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ph90702 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ph90702 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ph90702 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ph90702 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ph90702 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.ph90702 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Best player available with the exception of a quarterback if you already have one. With every position but quarterback, you can find a way to make it work. Also, who's to say that the particular position that is currently strong will be strong a few years down the road?
ph90702 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 12:14 PM    (permalink
Lil Quip
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 311
Reputation: 16717
Lil Quip is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Lil Quip is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Lil Quip is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Lil Quip is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Lil Quip is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Lil Quip is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Lil Quip is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Lil Quip is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Lil Quip is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Lil Quip is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Lil Quip is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I have a strong dislike for this phrase. It is just to be the antithesis of teams reaching for need. And they went off the deep end with it. It is used to reward forward thinking teams who usually don't have the needs other teams do or have the ability to risk the reward on a prospect.

And when you add in value and you take ad infinitum, it breaks down too.

Offensively who has the highest value? Take field position? QB first most likely. Then a punter averages four punts a game for 40 yards? That becomes 160 yards of field position a game. Go for points? Just look at NFL all time scoring leaders, and you see quite a few kickers, plus every kickoff that is a TB is 45 net yards so they add a ton of yard value too.

In all honesty, there is some optimal formula for applying need value and quality. I would have criteria like perceived floor/perceived ceiling and actual value to account for risk. Perceived and actual position need on the team, etc. Lets just say it gets real complicated real quick. This is why engineers and stats guys spend their time analyzing more important things and leave draft arguments to themselves.
Lil Quip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 12:42 PM    (permalink
Monomach
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,565
Reputation: 1931601
Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Monomach is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

No, it's not always BPA. That's just goofy. If Frank Gore and Colin Kaepernick die in a car crash and the 49ers get into the top ten, they're not drafting the BPA if he's an ILB.

Best Player Available is not a valid draft strategy. Best player that reasonably fits a need is.
Monomach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 12:51 PM    (permalink
tjsunstein
Mr. Rodgers' Neighborhood
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Resident Clippers fan
Posts: 15,746
Reputation: 1172327
tjsunstein is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.tjsunstein is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.tjsunstein is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.tjsunstein is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.tjsunstein is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.tjsunstein is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.tjsunstein is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.tjsunstein is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.tjsunstein is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.tjsunstein is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.tjsunstein is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I like best value available, very good way to put it.
__________________

tjsunstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 12:55 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Team Leader
Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 29,196
Reputation: 4076734
bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

If you're in the top 10, there's a good chance you have a lot of needs anyway. So I would go BPA unless it's an obvious contradiction.

The whole point of the draft is to acquire talent. You hit on enough draft picks and you'll have a good team. Talent finds a way on the field.
__________________
bigbluedefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.