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Old 10-27-2013, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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Default More Hyped: Luck or Clowney?

The mantra was suck for Luck when Luck was coming out. The hype was he was the best QB to come out since Elway I remember reading. Clowney's hype train labeled him one of the best defensive prospects to come out since 20 years.

So my question is in terms of hype and I guess potential ability who is the better prospect in their respective positions? Which prospect has the higher potential? Both have a lot of hype than any other prospect I can remember.

So it's suck for Luck or Clowning for Clowney. Who has more hype and higher potential as a player?
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Old 10-27-2013, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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Luck received significantly less criticism than Clowney as a prospect.
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Old 10-27-2013, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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Luck received significantly less criticism than Clowney as a prospect.
I agree. Clowney is getting a lot for taking plays off because he doesn't want to get hurt. However, I am taking more of positive hype and also overall potential of the prospects.

When each prospect is broken down, who has the higher potential or ceiling for their respective position?
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Old 10-27-2013, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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When each prospect is broken down, who has the higher potential or ceiling for their respective position?
If that is the question, I think it is easily Andrew Luck. He was clearly the best quarterback prospect to come out of college since Peyton Manning, who is arguably the best prototypical quarterback in the NFL.

Clowney is a great player and getting a lot of hype but that is because he is easily the best defensive end prospect in the country and has been arguably since he was a freshman player.

However there are other recent great pass rushers in the college game that are on par with Clowney I feel when they were in college. Julius Peppers, Mario Williams, Chris Long etc. Clowney could easily become better than any of those players in the NFL however, will see.





Oddly enough, Jameis Winston is right on the tail of Andrew Luck. Could argue if you take all the prospects in the country currently, regardless of class or position and pick one, I would take Winston #1 without question at this point in time. He is next in line with the media hype and really it has already happened.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:12 AM    (permalink
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Oddly enough, Jameis Winston is right on the tail of Andrew Luck. Could argue if you take all the prospects in the country currently, regardless of class or position and pick one, I would take Winston #1 without question at this point in time. He is next in line with the media hype and really it has already happened.
I agree. The second the draft ends this year, everybody is going to talk about Winston non stop. People are going to want to tank for Winston, just like they did for Luck. Regardless of class he's the best prospect in the country. He's up there with Luck as a prospect, or can be.
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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I agree. The second the draft ends this year, everybody is going to talk about Winston non stop. People are going to want to tank for Winston, just like they did for Luck. Regardless of class he's the best prospect in the country. He's up there with Luck as a prospect, or can be.
Assuming Jameis Winston did declare as a RSO and he did declare, how does he compare to Terry Bridgewater as a prospect?
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Old 10-27-2013, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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Luck was more hyped. He was pretty much universally loved as a QB. Nothing was really missing in his game so it was hard to attack him as a prospect. He seems to be living up to the hype right now.

Clowney is hugely hyped right now in his own right and he should be. The guy is big and explosive as they come. He has some minor issues with conditioning and effort in my eyes, but right now in college he affects every offense he plays against. Teams have to double him and they generally run the ball the other way.
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Old 10-27-2013, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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LOL. I'd rather talk about Jameis Winston too!!! You could make a strong case he'd be the 1/1 pick in the 2014 draft if he could come out, and he may end up being the best pro QB prospect since Elway. I hope people watch Winston as much as possible at FSU because I think he's gonna be an alltime great.

The hype surrounding Clowney is cooling somewhat if only because his game film isn't consistently impressive or dominating. I'm sure the hype will pick up steam once the regular college football season ends.
However as of right now, I don't think Clowney is one of the best players in the BCS.

If we didn't 'know' who he was, I doubt he'd really be mentioned much on this board.
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Old 10-27-2013, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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Andrew Luck is livining up to his hype no?

It's be interesting if Winston comes out early or not. He should stay all 4 years
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Old 10-27-2013, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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I think you guys are forgetting the idiotic "Andrew Luck doesn't have a strong arm" saga
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Old 10-27-2013, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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I think you guys are forgetting the idiotic "Andrew Luck doesn't have a strong arm" saga
He still doesn't throw the football with great velocity which was the basis of the arm strength critique. Luck can still complete passes 50+ yards downfield, but he can't rip the football like CK, Stafford, Cutler or RG3 on a 25 yard out route.

Basically Luck threw to TEs and RBs most the time at Stanford, so his true arm strength was something of a mystery.
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Old 10-28-2013, 02:42 AM    (permalink
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Andrew Luck is livining up to his hype no?

It's be interesting if Winston comes out early or not. He should stay all 4 years
Why should he not declare as soon as he's eligible? I mean, I could see him sticking around for his RS Junior year if the team is close to being national championship winners and he really wants to accomplish that or something, but unless he completely craps the bed he'll be the consensus #1 pick in 2015.
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Old 10-27-2013, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Luck got more hype than any prospect since Eli, and he may have even gotten more hype because the NFL draft is a bigger deal than when little brother came out.
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Old 10-27-2013, 05:44 PM    (permalink
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Defense is illegal in the NFL these days, so I don't know why a DE should get near the hype of a elite QB prospect.
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Old 10-27-2013, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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I had questions with Luck. I thought he was more Matt Ryan than Peyton Manning/John Elway. I meant that in the sense that I feel Elway and Peyton (and Brady) can win without much help. Could basically take WRs off the street and those QBs would make them look like great WRs. I was concerned Luck was more of a guy you'd have to put playmakers around. Never thought he wouldn't succeed. But I worried that the ascend would take much longer without guys like Reggie Wayne (who looked like he would be gone), Garcon, Collie, Clark, etc.

Luck was also a better prospect than Ryan, but I wondered if he should have been.

Clowney was the #1 highschool recruit. He's been hyped for a long time. I think the only reason he's not as hyped as Luck was is because he's not a QB.
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Old 10-27-2013, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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Luck by far. Woulda been the number 1 pick the year before to Carolina...and how many times have we seen a guy go back and drop 10 spots?

Luck was a can't miss guy, and hes proving it.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:22 AM    (permalink
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Luck by far. Woulda been the number 1 pick the year before to Carolina...and how many times have we seen a guy go back and drop 10 spots?

Luck was a can't miss guy, and hes proving it.
I remember hoping we'd trade back/take someone like AJ Green or Marcell Dareus and just tank 2011 as well, all to land Luck.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:19 AM    (permalink
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Isn't it a bit early to say Winston is the best prospect in a draft that is still really far away? The guy is tearing it up right now but a lot of stuff can happen between now and then. He is certainly on track though.
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Isn't it a bit early to say Winston is the best prospect in a draft that is still really far away? The guy is tearing it up right now but a lot of stuff can happen between now and then. He is certainly on track though.
I said 'unless he craps the bed' he'll be the #1 pick in 2015. I do not think it is too early to say that, no. Of course he could have a career-altering injury or have a really bad sophomore year, but barring something to that degree, he's the #1 guy, no question.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:41 PM    (permalink
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I guess, lets talk about the value of that #1 pick.
Griffin was 3 1st round picks right?
Luck was talked about as 6 1st round picks.

What would be the trade up value to obtain Winston?
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:30 PM    (permalink
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I guess, lets talk about the value of that #1 pick.
Griffin was 3 1st round picks right?
Luck was talked about as 6 1st round picks.

What would be the trade up value to obtain Winston?
It really depends on the other options you have with those first round picks.

When Washington took RG3 there was a huge dropoff from him to the next QB prospect and even then it hasn't seemed worth it.

If Winston was in this class and I had the #2 pick I would be happy to just take Bridgewater as I don't think there's a very big gap between them. If I had the #3 or #4 pick I'd probably be hesitant to trade multiple first rounders and would probably just pick Mariota or Clowney. Any later than that and I'd definitely be willing to give up 2 1st picks to move up and possibly 3 if I was a talented team that just needed a Qb.

Assuming he refines his mechanics and doesn't have any setbacks before the 2015 draft I think he'll be a notch below Luck as a prospect and better than everybody else since Peyton.
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Old 10-29-2013, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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importance / value of QB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> importance / value of DE


Andrew Luck was the ultimate prospect because he was a great QB. Clowney might become the next Reggie White but that won't be nearly as important as developing a top-10 QB if you are a rebuilding team.

Even if I knew Clowney would literally become the next Reggie White, I'd still take a QB over him if I was a team that needed one.
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Old 10-29-2013, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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importance / value of QB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> importance / value of DE


Andrew Luck was the ultimate prospect because he was a great QB. Clowney might become the next Reggie White but that won't be nearly as important as developing a top-10 QB if you are a rebuilding team.

Even if I knew Clowney would literally become the next Reggie White, I'd still take a QB over him if I was a team that needed one.
You can have your cake and eat it too, though. If you draft Clowney and have another abyssmal season with a bad QB, you may get Jameis Winston next year. You act as if this is the last year that team can ever draft a QB.
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Old 10-29-2013, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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You can have your cake and eat it too, though. If you draft Clowney and have another abyssmal season with a bad QB, you may get Jameis Winston next year. You act as if this is the last year that team can ever draft a QB.
If you're a general manager or head coach, the clock is ticking.

This is exactly what Steve Spagnolo tried to do in STL when he drafted Chris Long #2 overall instead of Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco. He probably thought he could wait and draft his franchise QB later, but when he finally did draft a QB, time had run out on him.

If he had taken Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco instead of Chris Long in 2008, Spagnolo might still have his job in St Louis.
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Old 10-30-2013, 04:38 AM    (permalink
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To be fair they still had a young Byron Leftwich who wasn't that terrible yet. It wouldn't have made any sense to draft Rodgers then.

Plus who knows what happens to Rodgers in a different situation. He got 3 full year to develop in a really stable franchise and stepped into a great set of receivers.
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