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Old 04-12-2008, 07:39 PM    (permalink
Packman1957
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Theres a few FA's id rather spend a little bit of money on than Brian Brohm who i would have to spend 1st or 2nd round money on.

Aaron Brooks- Mike McCarthy coached the guy for a year (Aaron's rookie) so while its only one year, its one more year than hes coached Brohm. Apparently Brooks did workout for us, but wasnt signed so we may not go with him, but Brooks was at one point a proven starter.

Daunte Culpepper- I believe he's still out there. Injury prone, but whats the chance they both get hurt.

Tim Rattay- Would be a nice fit in our offense. I believe he was also coached for a year by McCarthy.

I don't know...maybe there just alright at best. But I'm sorry I just don't see them helping us that much. Top that off TT hasn't tried pursuing one of these guys yet from what I know. I mean he might...as I know he likes to wait it out in FA. But I think by now he would at least have given them an interview.

I actually did forget about Rattay being available...
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Old 04-12-2008, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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Yea Shame On U! Go Watch Nfl Europe! Or Better Nfl Asia!
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Old 04-12-2008, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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Seriously dont be so cocky and think because the team stays the same at the other positions they r set. There is a reason why noone besides u thinks about getting a first round QB. But what u r saying is the truth right? Everything u say is right!
I never said they were set, are you listening? I said they can address that it in the 2nd-3rd round.

And no everything I say isn't right...not all the time. I originally expressed this as an idea for the pack, to take a first round QB. You guys blew it way out of proportion, and are calling me out all day. I'm just saying why it makes sense.

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Concerning Warner, u really think he is the Franchise QB the Cardinals have been waiting for....
How many times have I told you man. Please listen to what I have to say....please.

The reason I mentioned Warner is because he is a good backup behind Matt Leinart. The Packers don't have a good backup, I am not looking for another franchise QB. If we had a good backup like Warner, we wouldn't have this debate.

I just want someone who is fairly good behind Rodgers, it doesn't have to be a first rounder, it could be someone we pickup through trade, it could be a Free Agent (but there are no good ones available really). Its an idea to take a QB early, a suggestion, so take it for what its worth.
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Old 04-12-2008, 07:55 PM    (permalink
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well dont insist on a first rounder than. That would be a waste.

The difference between picking a QB or i.e. a CB is, that there are several CBs at once out there. So even if the other CBs are still great, he can get some experience.


And again: No 1st Round QB is drafted to be a backup. That is where u are getting cocky. Cause u think u have the luxury to be a backup with ur first pick. U simply dont.
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Old 04-12-2008, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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Bad Luck. Right, so you're going to take that route aren't you...bad luck...LOL. Yup I guess bad luck is getting injured 3 times in each season in limited action. Yup thats bad luck alright.
Most injuries are bad luck. As great as Favre's streak is he needed a lot of luck to keep it alive. It's nothing that he could have avoided.

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Yup you know it all.
If that had been Favre he wouldn't have been able to finish out the season. It required surgery and wasn't something you could play through. That would have ended anyone's season.

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OK than what Free Agent do you suggest than? I would love to hear it, and I will be ready to debate any player you mention on that list. Brohm is way better than any FA we could get.
Sure Brohm is better than any free agent, never said he wasn't. Again you don't spend a first round pick on a quarterback when you already have a first round QB that hasn't started a game. We can get a free agent or latter round QB.

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Yes it does, but you can pretend it doesn't if you want.
No it doesn't, not at all. Keep telling yourself that though.

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Yes it actually could happen, I am not saying it will but it could...so your open your mind up a little. Instead of being so narrow minded.
No it couldn't. There's no point in being open minded on this because there's no way it would happen.

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LOL now your not making any sense. You're contradicting your whole argument which is we don't need a good backup QB (because there aren't any in FA). So if Aaron Rodgers goes down which is quite likely, we go down with him. Good point.
Did you not read the rest of my post? (I'm assuming you did because you responded to it, but you must not have gotten it through your head) If Peyton Manning goes down the Colts go down with him, if Tom Brady goes down the Patriots go down with him, if Roethlisberger goes down Pitt goes down with him, if Palmer gets injured the Bengals have no one decent to fill in. That's simply how it goes. In this league you can't really keep more than one good QB on your roster. There are teams without any good QBs on their rosters.

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How long is Peyton Manning's starting streak....oh yeah 157 games. But yeah you'd be right otherwise. Way to put the most durable QB in the league as an example, that makes a lot of sense.
How long is Rodgers starting streak...oh yeah 0. Give him a ******* chance before drafting his replacement. It's an example because if he gets hurt they don't have a good backup QB either.

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Here we go again. Tom Brady, another very very durable QB. How many games has he missed?
Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have just as good of a chance of getting injured as Rodgers. It's not like RB where their playing styles make the injury risks differ.
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Jets or Giants? Fine i'll do both.

Giants have Manning who has missed a few games. But still pretty durable. They were smart though and they went out and picked up David Carr in FA. So they did address there need with a guy who has quite a bit of NFL experience.
Please, your using David Carr as a good backup. How'd he do when he was with Carolina as a backup? He got beat out by 42 year old Vinny Testaverde. And when he was in he blew balls.

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How many games has Brees missed lately. Absolutely none. Plus he's got at least an adequate NFL backup in Mark Brunell.
Forgot they signed Brunell. However they didn't have anyone the past two years. Back to Brees, he had some nasty shoulder problems, if you're going to say anything about Rodgers you should say it about Brees too then. And he has missed 6 starts.

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But again Brees hasn't missed any game as a Saint so what is your point?
Exactly! He hasn't missed any since then. It's not like if you get injured a couple times you'll always be injured. Rodgers could easily go on to do the same thing. There's a much better chance he'll make it through the season than getting injured.

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Big Ben misses a few games here and there, not many though. He missed two games in the last two seasons, whoop de ding.
Again, exactly! If Rodgers misses a couple games here and there we'll make do. Whoop de ding


And for the love of God try to quote right next time, that's a pain in the ass to shift through.
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Old 04-12-2008, 08:40 PM    (permalink
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Most injuries are bad luck. As great as Favre's streak is he needed a lot of luck to keep it alive. It's nothing that he could have avoided.
Sorry but I disagree, injuries are going to happen more frequently with some human beings rather than others. Yes i'll admit a little luck is involved. But you can't deny some human beings have a harder time staying healthier than others. I won't pretend to be a doctor, but from what I have seen throughout playing football in high school, into college, and watching the NFL, it works different with different people.


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If that had been Favre he wouldn't have been able to finish out the season. It required surgery and wasn't something you could play through. That would have ended anyone's season.
Maybe so...maybe not. How would you know? Thats impossible.

Is it possible that Favre would have gotten hurt in that situation. Yes. But IMO a lot less of a chance than Rodgers. Favre just has stronger bones, I know that sounds riddicilious and you're ready to rape this quote but its the truth. Rodgers is a lot more fragile than Favre. I don't question his toughness though.

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Sure Brohm is better than any free agent, never said he wasn't. Again you don't spend a first round pick on a quarterback when you already have a first round QB that hasn't started a game. We can get a free agent or latter round QB.
I have expressed my opinion on this before. I disagree for reasons I mentioned before.

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No it doesn't, not at all. Keep telling yourself that though.
OK whatever believe what you want. You obviously have your mind set on your point of view, but so do I so...

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No it couldn't. There's no point in being open minded on this because there's no way it would happen.
no you just can't open you're mind, but thats fine. It's natural most people can't.

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Did you not read the rest of my post? (I'm assuming you did because you responded to it, but you must not have gotten it through your head) If Peyton Manning goes down the Colts go down with him, if Tom Brady goes down the Patriots go down with him, if Roethlisberger goes down Pitt goes down with him, if Palmer gets injured the Bengals have no one decent to fill in. That's simply how it goes. In this league you can't really keep more than one good QB on your roster. There are teams without any good QBs on their rosters.
Yeah I read it and you obviously aren't understanding me.

Peyton Manning has a significantly less chance of going down because he is naturally more durable, same goes for Tom Brady. Aaron Rodgers has a greater chance because that's just how it is. Sure a little luck is involved but you can't tell me Rodgers went down 3 times in 3 seasons due to all of it being bad luck. That is just riddicilious. Some human beings are more durable than others.


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How long is Rodgers starting streak...oh yeah 0. Give him a ******* chance before drafting his replacement. It's an example because if he gets hurt they don't have a good backup QB either.
See and that's the problem, he hasn't even started a game and he has gotten injured 3 times in 3 seasons. That's the problem in itself.

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Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have just as good of a chance of getting injured as Rodgers.
Now this is where you got it completely and I mean completely wrong. You are way off, you are not even in the same ballpark as me. You could consult any doctor and find out that some human beings are more durable than others.

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Please, your using David Carr as a good backup. How'd he do when he was with Carolina as a backup? He got beat out by 42 year old Vinny Testaverde.
My opinion here is that David Carr was rushed into an offense he wasn't familar with. I am not making excuses for Carr as you are right he did play quite bad. But I don't think he was ready to step into that offense. At least he has a legit amount of NFL experience, but I am not saying he is the greatest backup. But he is serviceable and has experience, for the Texans he was ok.

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Back to Brees, he had some nasty shoulder problems, if you're going to say anything about Rodgers you should say it about Brees too then. And he has missed 6 starts.
Brees is the exception, all I can do is base my opinion on what I have seen in the past, but do you think its worth the gamble in the future given what we know. You can't just mention one case, because there have been numerous QB's who never really recover from injury problems. Its haunts them for the rest of there career.




With all that said, I am not playing Aaron Rodgers down, I think he will be good if he can stay healthy. And maybe he will, but if he does get injured we are in trouble. And you seem to agree with me in that regard. But I think you are under the belief that every QB has a similar chance of getting injured, and I disagree very much in that regard.

Also please realize I am not trying to piss anyone off, I just want a good discussion. Sure I called out Renji a little, but I guess he kept repeating himself and I was getting sick of it.

Remember we are still rooting for the same team. I want whats best for the Packers as much as you do. Its ok if we disagree in opinions.
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Old 04-12-2008, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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well dont insist on a first rounder than. That would be a waste.

The difference between picking a QB or i.e. a CB is, that there are several CBs at once out there. So even if the other CBs are still great, he can get some experience.


And again: No 1st Round QB is drafted to be a backup. That is where u are getting cocky. Cause u think u have the luxury to be a backup with ur first pick. U simply dont.
Renji you have such a one-sided mindset its not even funny. You think your way is the only way. Read that first sentence again, that is a matter of opinion. The QB position has more precedence than the CB position. And I am getting cocky, you think I am the only one who suggested this. Go to nfl.com and look at Pat Kirwan's mock (the same guy who had us taking Justin Harrell last year) he has us taking Brohm.

And remember its an idea, if you look at my mock draft I don't even have us taking Brohm. And what made you the GM of the Pack to make that last comment.
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Old 04-12-2008, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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seriously who is one sided? U r the one who is alone representing ur site. There are alot of others that think the idea of drafting QB in the first for the packers is incredibly stupid.

Btw i couldnt care less what Pat Kirwan has in his mocks. He could put Jordy Nelson up there. It doesnt make it any better or smarter. If the Packers draft a QB with the first pick it would just be plain stupid. Hell even fans from the Packers are telling me how stupid ur arguments are


anyways, it is really not worth it to argue with u.
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Old 04-12-2008, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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seriously who is one sided? U r the one who is alone representing ur site. There are alot of others that think the idea of drafting QB in the first for the packers is incredibly stupid.

Btw i couldnt care less what Pat Kirwan has in his mocks. He could put Jordy Nelson up there. It doesnt make it any better or smarter. If the Packers draft a QB with the first pick it would just be plain stupid. Hell even fans from the Packers are telling me how stupid ur arguments are
Really? You think I am the only one representing my idea, on this site...maybe. But there is life outside this forum. Some people on this site agree with the idea(link).

http://www.packerchatters.com/4ums/i...howtopic=10266
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Old 04-12-2008, 09:08 PM    (permalink
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yay other Packer fans want to tell me and promise me that the GB Packers are deff gonna take QB in the 1st Pick. now i know i was wrong!

btw is the life outside this forum u mean another packers forum? fun fun

btw: I have never said u shouldnt draft a Qb. Just not in the first round, maybe not even in the second
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Old 04-12-2008, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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Really? You think I am the only one representing my idea, on this site...maybe. But there is life outside this forum. Some people on this site agree with the idea(link).

http://www.packerchatters.com/4ums/i...howtopic=10266
Packerchatters is an awful site with an even worse forum. Maybe, maybe 4% of the posters there are decent.
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Old 04-12-2008, 09:40 PM    (permalink
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Maybe so...maybe not. How would you know? Thats impossible.
How would we know? Because that's an injury that it is damn near medically impossible to get through a season on.
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Is it possible that Favre would have gotten hurt in that situation. Yes. But IMO a lot less of a chance than Rodgers. Favre just has stronger bones, I know that sounds riddicilious and you're ready to rape this quote but its the truth. Rodgers is a lot more fragile than Favre. I don't question his toughness though.
You know why it sounds ridiculous? Because it's complete and total nonsense.


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no you just can't open you're mind, but thats fine. It's natural most people can't.
Please, in the sake of argument, name me one time this has ever happened in the history of the NFL draft: A team using a first round pick on a QB they never, ever, ever intend to start.

Really, I mean it. I want to know if this has ever happened before, and if it has, how long that GM stuck around.


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Peyton Manning has a significantly less chance of going down because he is naturally more durable, same goes for Tom Brady. Aaron Rodgers has a greater chance because that's just how it is. Sure a little luck is involved but you can't tell me Rodgers went down 3 times in 3 seasons due to all of it being bad luck. That is just riddicilious. Some human beings are more durable than others.
Do you know how the human body works? I'm pretty sure you don't.



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Now this is where you got it completely and I mean completely wrong. You are way off, you are not even in the same ballpark as me. You could consult any doctor and find out that some human beings are more durable than others.
Sure, you could. However, you're only going to be able to make that point if the person in question has a genetic defect, a disease, or if it's an injury to the same, weakened spot of the body. I will happily admit that A-Rod has a slightly higher chance of getting an ankle injury than the average NFL QB. However, it's not so significantly high that we have to hold our breath every time he gets hit.

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My opinion here is that David Carr was rushed into an offense he wasn't familar with. I am not making excuses for Carr as you are right he did play quite bad. But I don't think he was ready to step into that offense. At least he has a legit amount of NFL experience, but I am not saying he is the greatest backup. But he is serviceable and has experience, for the Texans he was ok.
And this furthers the argument that we should take a guy with no NFL experience with our first round pick to fill this role?

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Brees is the exception, all I can do is base my opinion on what I have seen in the past, but do you think its worth the gamble in the future given what we know. You can't just mention one case, because there have been numerous QB's who never really recover from injury problems. Its haunts them for the rest of there career.
Oh, no you don't. Do you have a magical crystal ball that tells you which players will get hurt in the future, and which ones are special exceptions? The injury to Brees was horrible; probably worse than any injury Rodgers has had. You can't just shrug off examples that hurt your point like this.


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Also please realize I am not trying to piss anyone off, I just want a good discussion. Sure I called out Renji a little, but I guess he kept repeating himself and I was getting sick of it.
You mean like you're simply repeating yourself?
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Remember we are still rooting for the same team. I want whats best for the Packers as much as you do. Its ok if we disagree in opinions.
So act like it. If you want what's best for the Packers, you don't want them to take their best opportunity for a top talent and waste it on an emergency plan.

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Old 04-12-2008, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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Don't forget that the Almighty Lord Favre had injury concerns coming out of college. He had the same degenerative hip disorder that Bo Jackson had and was involved in a serious car accident in his senior year. That said, he started 250 + games in a row for us.

Give Rodgers a chance before you say we need another QB. All QB's seem injury prone when you have the same QB started for your team over the last 15 years.
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Old 04-12-2008, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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Well Alright I have proved my point, I really don't got anything else to say.

I think my case is clear, and regardless of whether or not fans disagree with me I will hold true to my point. So further discussion is no longer neccessary.

And remember it was just a thought...in the end Brohm probably won't be there at #30 anyways so this whole discussion might not even be worth my time. And I am not sure that they would go after a project like Flacco, i'll admit I don't see that happening. Henne, I doubt it as well, i'm not high on him. Brohm or Ryan would be the only ones and only one has a chance of being there.

It's just thought, and its obvious people disagree with me, and thats fine. I respect everything people have to say. But IMO it makes sense based on a cost/benefit ratio.

Its just a shame that some people on this forum can't at least open there mind a little, because after all no one saw the Justin Harrell pick coming last year. But whatever, your viewpoint is your viewpoint and my viewpoint is my viewpoint. So take it for what it's worth.

By the way just curious, who is ready to rape this quote...LOL? It seems everything I say is under scrutiny word for word. I give up I got better things to do in life, i'll just wait for the draft in two weeks.
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Old 04-12-2008, 10:49 PM    (permalink
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Hold on a minute. Before you leave, I want you to please show me an example in the history of the NFL of a team drafting a QB in the first round for the sole purpose of sitting him on a bench for the entire time he's on the team.
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Old 04-12-2008, 10:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Packman1957 View Post
It's just thought, and its obvious people disagree with me, and thats fine. I respect everything people have to say. But IMO it makes sense based on a cost/benefit ratio.
I don't understand at all how you can say that. A first round pick and big money for a backup QB is terrible cost/benefit.

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Its just a shame that some people on this forum can't at least open there mind a little, because after all no one saw the Justin Harrell pick coming last year. But whatever, your viewpoint is your viewpoint and my viewpoint is my viewpoint. So take it for what it's worth.
I can open my mind, but not on something this ridiculous. Last year I did peg DT as our pick. I even put Okoye as our pick over Lynch in a January mock that I made. I had turned back to Lynch as my #1 target after a while, but still had DT up there. Once Lynch went to Buffalo I was hoping for a DT. I was thinking it'd be Branch though.

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By the way just curious, who is ready to rape this quote...LOL? It seems everything I say is under scrutiny word for word. I give up I got better things to do in life, i'll just wait for the draft in two weeks.
I guess that'd be me. I was going to leave it alone, but I felt the need to respond to those things. You're a decent poster, you just couldn't be any more wrong on this subject.
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Old 04-12-2008, 10:57 PM    (permalink
Packman1957
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Hold on a minute. Before you leave, I want you to please show me an example in the history of the NFL of a team drafting a QB in the first round for the sole purpose of sitting him on a bench for the entire time he's on the team.
Sorry man I am tired out and quite honestly I have better things to do. Its impossible, me being a college student, competing against all of you guys in this debate. Its kind of hard for me to win....you know what I mean. Its kind of like going to war with 500 soldiers against 20,000 and unless I represent the Spartan Army I lose....LOL. You guys are digging up whatever you can find, to prove me wrong. And I gotta try an keep up with all of you guys...its possible but its also time consuming...I will throw in the towel.

I told you my stance and you're not going to get me to change my opinion so I would just say don't bother. This is officially my last post on this thread when it comes to the first round QB debate (well at least until after the draft).

So you guys win congratulations....LOL!
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Old 04-12-2008, 11:49 PM    (permalink
mqtirishfan
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Sorry man I am tired out and quite honestly I have better things to do. Its impossible, me being a college student, competing against all of you guys in this debate. Its kind of hard for me to win....you know what I mean. Its kind of like going to war with 500 soldiers against 20,000 and unless I represent the Spartan Army I lose....LOL. You guys are digging up whatever you can find, to prove me wrong. And I gotta try an keep up with all of you guys...its possible but its also time consuming...I will throw in the towel.

I told you my stance and you're not going to get me to change my opinion so I would just say don't bother. This is officially my last post on this thread when it comes to the first round QB debate (well at least until after the draft).

So you guys win congratulations....LOL!
Translation: "this has never happened in the NFL draft, and instead of admitting that, a much longer cop-out will be my choice. Nevermind the fact that I'm wrong, because I'm a martyr, dammit. All of these guys who clearly have less strain on them than do I because I go to college are proving me wrong because of their enormous collective free-time. Ignore that I will likely be spending the exact same amount of time here as I would if I continued to post in this thread, because I was ganged up on. I'm still totally right; the Packers might be the first team in history to do what I am proposing, but my time is simply too important to be used up in this particular debate."
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Old 04-13-2008, 01:32 AM    (permalink
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Why do you take this so personally? I really don't understand why you are so offended about being on one side of a debate.
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Old 04-13-2008, 05:38 AM    (permalink
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I told you my stance and you're not going to get me to change my opinion so I would just say don't bother. This is officially my last post on this thread when it comes to the first round QB debate (well at least until after the draft).
seriously and u call us single minded....

btw i couldnt care less if the Packers draft a QB. Would be awesome to see the Packers spent so much money on backups
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Old 04-13-2008, 05:38 AM    (permalink
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Translation: "this has never happened in the NFL draft, and instead of admitting that, a much longer cop-out will be my choice. Nevermind the fact that I'm wrong, because I'm a martyr, dammit. All of these guys who clearly have less strain on them than do I because I go to college are proving me wrong because of their enormous collective free-time. Ignore that I will likely be spending the exact same amount of time here as I would if I continued to post in this thread, because I was ganged up on. I'm still totally right; the Packers might be the first team in history to do what I am proposing, but my time is simply too important to be used up in this particular debate."
Lets just rub it in...right. Do you feel better now. I felt that was unneccesary.

Actually the only reason I didn't answer your question is because if I do answer that question, than you are going to keep raping my quotes and telling me I am wrong. And the process is going to keep repeating itself until draft day. So, what is the point? I am obviously not going to change anyone's mind. Everyone's mind is completely and I mean completely set on one side of the story.

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Why do you take this so personally? I really don't understand why you are so offended about being on one side of a debate.
I am not taking it personally, I just happen to realize I am wasting my time because everyone's mind is set on one side of the story. I am not going to change anyone's mind. And you know its the truth so why should I bother.

And quite honestly I already said everything I needed to say. Why should I continue?
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Old 04-13-2008, 07:32 AM    (permalink
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First of all, I apologize for being a dick, but the whole "my time is too valuable for this" thing irritates me to no end.

As for the QB thing, if you give me just one example, I'll concede that there is a possibility it could happen. The thing is, you won't be able to.
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Old 04-13-2008, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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You heard it here first, the Packers will trade their whole draft to get Matt Ryan because apparently they have no weaknesses besides backup QB.
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Old 04-13-2008, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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The Bears!!!!
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Old 04-13-2008, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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The Bears!!!!
I wish you weren't joking. :(
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