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Old 01-13-2007, 10:39 PM    (permalink
smittyjs
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Originally Posted by SterlingSharpe
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Originally Posted by Shiver
He's been better than expected, but he doesn't deserve credit for three of those "wins" he has. That is all anybody is saying. I am a big fan of Vince Young.
Who deserves the credit? Jeff Fisher who was about to be fired before Vince straightened them out?
Travis Henry?
Those great WRs on the Texans? Name those great WRs.... the U of Texas has a better group of WRs than the Texans.
Henry deserve ALOT of credit, he helped VY in a major way, Pitbull told me he was going to surprise me this year....
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Old 01-13-2007, 10:39 PM    (permalink
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Shiver are you really going to try and say he wasn't the best player in college last year and couldn't have done what he did in any conference? :?
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Old 01-13-2007, 10:41 PM    (permalink
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The Eagles game, Travis Henry and McNabb's injury were the reason for the victories. The Colts game was Rob Bironas and again, Travis Henry.
The Colt game had alot to do with VY also. Also have to add Pacman to the Eagles game win. 8)
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Old 01-13-2007, 10:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by draftguru151
Shiver are you really going to try and say he wasn't the best player in college last year and couldn't have done what he did in any conference? :?

The best player in college last year was Vince Young. Second; the difference between team speed in the SEC, even the ACC, and Pac-10 defenses is a large gap.
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Old 01-13-2007, 10:42 PM    (permalink
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Shiver are you really going to try and say he wasn't the best player in college last year and couldn't have done what he did in any conference? :?
I really couldn't have seen him running for 9 YPC in the SEC last year.
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Old 01-14-2007, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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It shouldn't matter in the slightest what any of these guys did in college. Jason White was a terrific college player. So was Charlie Ward, Ron Dayne and Trev Alberts. A lot of great NFL players didn't do anything in college either.

Bush has a long way to prove he can be a good full time NFL back. Same goes for Vince Young and Mario. That's why making any of these statements that excluded anything is stupid. And at the same time, I could easily see Young, Bush or Mario having some sophmore slumps and fading into the underachiverer category.
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Old 01-14-2007, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by marks01234
It shouldn't matter in the slightest what any of these guys did in college. Jason White was a terrific college player. So was Charlie Ward, Ron Dayne and Trev Alberts. A lot of great NFL players didn't do anything in college either.

Bush has a long way to prove he can be a good full time NFL back. Same goes for Vince Young and Mario. That's why making any of these statements that excluded anything is stupid. And at the same time, I could easily see Young, Bush or Mario having some sophmore slumps and fading into the underachiverer category.

Exactly; Vince still blows as a passer, Reggie Bush blows as a runner, and Mario Williams doesn't have the technique to match his athleticism.
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Old 01-15-2007, 01:48 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver
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Originally Posted by marks01234
It shouldn't matter in the slightest what any of these guys did in college. Jason White was a terrific college player. So was Charlie Ward, Ron Dayne and Trev Alberts. A lot of great NFL players didn't do anything in college either.

Bush has a long way to prove he can be a good full time NFL back. Same goes for Vince Young and Mario. That's why making any of these statements that excluded anything is stupid. And at the same time, I could easily see Young, Bush or Mario having some sophmore slumps and fading into the underachiverer category.

Exactly; Vince still blows as a passer, Reggie Bush blows as a runner, and Mario Williams doesn't have the technique to match his athleticism.
Vince has the "It" factor, he wont have a sophmore slump. He's the real deal.
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Old 01-15-2007, 01:50 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver
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Originally Posted by marks01234
It shouldn't matter in the slightest what any of these guys did in college. Jason White was a terrific college player. So was Charlie Ward, Ron Dayne and Trev Alberts. A lot of great NFL players didn't do anything in college either.

Bush has a long way to prove he can be a good full time NFL back. Same goes for Vince Young and Mario. That's why making any of these statements that excluded anything is stupid. And at the same time, I could easily see Young, Bush or Mario having some sophmore slumps and fading into the underachiverer category.

Exactly; Vince still blows as a passer, Reggie Bush blows as a runner, and Mario Williams doesn't have the technique to match his athleticism.
Vince has the "It" factor, he wont have a sophmore slump. He's the real deal.
While I agree, we have to wait on that. I remember the "Big Three" of the Quarterbacks in '04 class that were proclaimed to have "it" as well, and have faded. The Titans need to give him a weapon in the passing game, first and foremost. That will help a lot.
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Old 01-15-2007, 08:13 AM    (permalink
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I think it was a Tony Mandarich mistake. Two potential legends allowed to slip thru while the Texans went for the massive size + strength that = a great combine, but he wasn't even all-world on the field in the ACC.

He was voted 4th for ACC defensive player of the year his last year there. He might be a nice player in the NFL, but to be a DE drafted #1 any year, you gotta become dominant like Reggie White or Bruce Smith. And to be #1 in the year that two very special playmakers were in the draft, you better be an instant rookie of the year and obvious star that offenses have to gameplan around. Defenses already had to gameplan around Reggie Bush and Vince Young right away.

By the way, I like Mario as a person, unlike the steroid freak Mandarich. It's not Mario's fault that he went #1 either.
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Old 01-15-2007, 08:27 AM    (permalink
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They should have picked D'Brickashaw Ferguson.
agreed
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Old 01-15-2007, 08:30 AM    (permalink
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They should have picked D'Brickashaw Ferguson.
agreed
Well if we're doing hindsight, they "should" have pick Marcus McNeil who is light years ahead of D'Brick physically.

Brick seriously needs to hit white castle this offseason, he's had a difficult time against power rushers in a division occupied by Richard Seymour and Aaron Schobel. He's been pretty mediocre runwise too.
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Old 01-15-2007, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SterlingSharpe
He was voted 4th for ACC defensive player of the year his last year there.
don't make another post in this thread until you qualify that statement as actually have some vague degree of meaning. this is about the 14th time you've repeated it like it's a worthwhile argument. it's still not.
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Old 01-15-2007, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SterlingSharpe
He was voted 4th for ACC defensive player of the year his last year there.
don't make another post in this thread until you qualify that statement as actually have some vague degree of meaning. this is about the 14th time you've repeated it like it's a worthwhile argument. it's still not.

He only ignored the fact that Williams' pure Junior season blew Peppers' redshirt Junior season away, in terms of production. He's ignorant, in more ways than one, which is why he was banned.
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Old 01-15-2007, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Zim3031
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Originally Posted by Finsfan79
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Originally Posted by Hurricane Ditka
They should have picked D'Brickashaw Ferguson.
agreed
Well if we're doing hindsight, they "should" have pick Marcus McNeil who is light years ahead of D'Brick physically.

Brick seriously needs to hit white castle this offseason, he's had a difficult time against power rushers in a division occupied by Richard Seymour and Aaron Schobel. He's been pretty mediocre runwise too.
The thing with McNeill though is onebad hit can end his career. His back is very fragile, and will very likely have a very short career. He'll need to be lucky to play 10+ years.
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Old 01-15-2007, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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Mario Williams will be incredible. He can play in any defensive scheme and any defensive position aside from Nose Tackle, but I know that he could if he was asked to and put on some weight, he certainly wouldn't mind eating more. He has everything you look for in a defensive lineman and IMO they made the right decision (although I still think that D'Brick would have been best for their situation).

Granted Reggie and Vince both are great and had better rookie seasons, I think it is harder to measure a defensive rookie's season compared to an offensive guys because adjusting to the NFL for a defensive end is harder than it is for a running back. However, Vince Young didn't even have all that respectable of stats either, the only thing that draws attention to his name are those 8 wins he ran off for the Titans. No second guessing the Texans for me, yet.
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:34 PM    (permalink
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He was voted 4th for ACC defensive player of the year his last year there
Once again - this means nothing.

First off the ACC awards have always been a popularity contest. Kiwi won that year despite having 6 less sacks than Mario and I believe they all came in three games (I know 6 of them came in two games and he had 3 against a D-1AA) team. Even if you want to buy that Kiwi had a better season you have to remember he was two years older than Mario, as a redshirt senior.

Here are Mario's Junior stats head to head with Peppers' redshirt junior stats. Mario's final 7 games, he recorded 13.5 sacks with 6 in his final two.

Mario Williams: 62 tackles, 14.5 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 1 blocked kick, 1 safety, 4 fumble recoveries, 27.5 tackles for loss

Julius Peppers: 63 tackles, 9.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble and 3 interceptions, including one returned for a touchdown.

Mario true sophmore year he recorded 5 tackles for a loss and 3 sacks against FSU and future first round pick Alex Barron.

Don't give me this crap that Mario didn't dominate. Just because every other NC State play was repeated for Sportscenter doesn't mean he didn't make special play after special play as a junior. I remember one particular play where he beat a tackle to the inside and bulldozed over the running back and forced the QB to throw in the stands as he was being planted into the dirt.

Mario may or may not turn into a better player than Young or Bush. But no logical person can say it was "stupid" to draft him.
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Old 01-16-2007, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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He was voted 4th for ACC defensive player of the year his last year there
Once again - this means nothing.

First off the ACC awards have always been a popularity contest. Kiwi won that year despite having 6 less sacks than Mario and I believe they all came in three games (I know 6 of them came in two games and he had 3 against a D-1AA) team. Even if you want to buy that Kiwi had a better season you have to remember he was two years older than Mario, as a redshirt senior.

Here are Mario's Junior stats head to head with Peppers' redshirt junior stats. Mario's final 7 games, he recorded 13.5 sacks with 6 in his final two.

Mario Williams: 62 tackles, 14.5 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 1 blocked kick, 1 safety, 4 fumble recoveries, 27.5 tackles for loss

Julius Peppers: 63 tackles, 9.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble and 3 interceptions, including one returned for a touchdown.

Mario true sophmore year he recorded 5 tackles for a loss and 3 sacks against FSU and future first round pick Alex Barron.

Don't give me this crap that Mario didn't dominate. Just because every other NC State play was repeated for Sportscenter doesn't mean he didn't make special play after special play as a junior. I remember one particular play where he beat a tackle to the inside and bulldozed over the running back and forced the QB to throw in the stands as he was being planted into the dirt.

Mario may or may not turn into a better player than Young or Bush. But no logical person can say it was "stupid" to draft him.

He can't reply, because he was BANNED for racist comments. :shock:
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