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Old 05-20-2008, 02:13 PM    (permalink
TheGreatEscape
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As for Canada, I don't think a team would last in Toronto as the fans would never care about them nearly as much as the Leafs, ever, and the novelty would where out. If the Bills have to leave buffalo I could see Hamilton becoming a legit location because they entire area and a lot of Buffalo would support the team plus more government money.
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Old 05-20-2008, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
LA does not deserve another franchise. The most fickle fans on earth.
Not true at all. It's just that nobody wants to pay ridiculous money to go sit in the LA Coliseum and watch their team lose.

Every fan base is fickle at first. It usually takes generations and growth between a team and a community before you start getting your diehard fans. You need people growing up with the team, living their entire lives of fans of that team. Look at your Giants....you guys are on, what, your fifth or sixth generation of fans now? Same goes with all the classical teams.

Give a team a new stadium in LA and let them grow with the team and let's see what happens.

COME BACK TO LA RAMS!!!
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Old 05-20-2008, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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Not true at all. It's just that nobody wants to pay ridiculous money to go sit in the LA Coliseum and watch their team lose.

Every fan base is fickle at first. It usually takes generations and growth between a team and a community before you start getting your diehard fans. You need people growing up with the team, living their entire lives of fans of that team. Look at your Giants....you guys are on, what, your fifth or sixth generation of fans now? Same goes with all the classical teams.

Give a team a new stadium in LA and let them grow with the team and let's see what happens.

COME BACK TO LA RAMS!!!
This is why they should not leave St. Louis. The fan support in St. Louis has been phenomenal. I believe this past season was the first time a game wasn't sold out since coming to St. Louis, and they have been God-awful for at least half their existence in St. Louis. This includes 1995-1998....4 seasons of abysmal football and every game was selling out. That just shows that it doesn't necessarily take generations and generations for fan loyalty to happen. St. Louis was starved for a football team and immediately bought into the Rams when they arrived. Los Angeles may have a huge population, but many of the people there are transplants.......they already have "teams". I don't know the full story behind the Rams and Raiders moving out of LA, but the bottom line is that two teams have moved out of LA in recent history...and they wouldn't do it for no reason. How many teams does California really need. There are already 3 teams there, I don't think any state can properly support 4 NFL teams.
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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900 million dollars for a franchise that's in the dumps right now? I doubt it.

And why wouldn't Las Vegas be an option? Someone's gonna have to get started there eventually, why not let it be the NFL, who owns every other professional sports league when it comes to popularity.

They could be called the Las Vegas Craps shooters.
Goodells panties would be in a bunch at the thought of NFL players running around in the city of sin.
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:40 PM    (permalink
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This is why they should not leave St. Louis. The fan support in St. Louis has been phenomenal. I believe this past season was the first time a game wasn't sold out since coming to St. Louis, and they have been God-awful for at least half their existence in St. Louis. This includes 1995-1998....4 seasons of abysmal football and every game was selling out. That just shows that it doesn't necessarily take generations and generations for fan loyalty to happen. St. Louis was starved for a football team and immediately bought into the Rams when they arrived. Los Angeles may have a huge population, but many of the people there are transplants.......they already have "teams". I don't know the full story behind the Rams and Raiders moving out of LA, but the bottom line is that two teams have moved out of LA in recent history...and they wouldn't do it for no reason. How many teams does California really need. There are already 3 teams there, I don't think any state can properly support 4 NFL teams.
Properly support? NFL teams bring in tons of tax revenue. Aside from initial investments from the city for stadiums and development NFL's make money for cities and state economies.

And If you are talking about population...
Missouri Population: 5,842,713
Los Angeles County: 9,948,081

Besides, in LA with the proper marketing. You can sell crack out of a babies ass and people will eat it up if they think they will look that much cooler.
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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Properly support? NFL teams bring in tons of tax revenue. Aside from initial investments from the city for stadiums and development NFL's make money for cities and state economies.

And If you are talking about population...
Missouri Population: 5,842,713
Los Angeles County: 9,948,081

Besides, in LA with the proper marketing. You can sell crack out of a babies ass and people will eat it up if they think they will look that much cooler.
I am not talking about financial backing. All the financial backing in the world doesn't matter if there aren't asses in the seats. The population size of the area is irrelevant as long as the stadium is being filled. You can't fit 10 million people in a stadium last time I checked. Arguing the fair weather nature of LA football fans is a losing one. There just is not a strong desire in LA for an NFL. If anything can be marketed in LA then the Raiders and Rams wouldn't have left. There are simply too many sports options in LA for another team to work, especially when the desire isn't even that strong. There are the Dodgers, Angels, Lakers, Clippers, Kings, Ducks, USC, and UCLA all in Los Angeles, and if soccer is included you can throw in the Galaxy. Adding another team would be too many for the city to support. There would be 7 teams with seasons going on at basically the same time. Unlike LA, an overwhelming majority of people in Missouri are from Missouri, meaning their teams are Missouri teams.......St. Louis or Kansas City. The Rams and Chiefs have amazing sellout stats. The Rams had sold out every game prior to the 2006 season. Their 15th game of the year ended the sellout streak. The Chiefs are always a sellout. LA can produce all the stastics it wants to support its claim for an NFL team, but they don't have the most important thing....fan support.
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Old 05-21-2008, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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LA does not deserve another franchise. The most fickle fans on earth.

Then explain the Dodgers. I mean the Lakers win so it's easy to follow them but explain the undying support for the Dodgers.
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Old 05-21-2008, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Sounds to me like they've been shopping around at the owners meetings, letting the word out to the rich people.
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Old 05-21-2008, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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... I don't know the full story behind the Rams and Raiders moving out of LA, but the bottom line is that two teams have moved out of LA in recent history...and they wouldn't do it for no reason...
Well here's a brief synopsis on the Rams:

The LA Coliseum is a horrible venue for football. It's basically a track stadium so you are very far away and the seats go all the way to the ground. It's full capacity is 100,000. By contrast, Edward James is 70,000. Giants stadium (another large market) is 75,000. Gotta remember this is back in the 70s so it would routinely not sell out so no local TV.

If you did go to the game, there was not enough parking so you'd have to park on someone's lawn who charged $20 back then and walk half a mile through ,then, a bad neighborhood.

Ownership wanted to improve the stadium but a political group called the 'Coliseum commission' was a constant obstacle. In fact if you ask some people the Raiders move had more to do with failure to secure improvements to the Coliseum than with fan support.

Luxury boxes were just coming in to the league and teams that had those made tons more money than teams that didn't. Anyway the coliseum commission would never agree to any improvements that satisfied either the Rams or Raiders AND they would block any attempt to move to a stadium within LA city limits. That's why the Rams moved to Anaheim, because there was nothing the coliseum commission could do.

Anaheim was a disaster, the team was bad, ownership was unpopular (rightfully so at that time) and the stadium was an hour away for some people.

I will say this, you do have a point about cities with fewer teams. The San Jose Sharks and Sacrimento Kings have rabid fans because what else do they have?

I've always told fellow Ram fans that I hoped as long as the city of St. Louis supported the team, they deserved to keep it. This last season I watched a home game against Green Bay where someone put up a sign that read "Lambeau South" right behind the goal post.

WTF I posted on one of the fan sites!!! My displeasure was met with rampant apathy. Who cares? They have a better team than we do. Stuff like that.

I still think St. Louis should keep the team but EJ doesn't exactly have a reputation these days as a loud fan base. Steven Jackson has complained publicly about this as well. I have never been there so I dont want to critisize too much.

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Old 05-21-2008, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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I've always told fellow Ram fans that I hoped as long as the city of St. Louis supported the team, they deserved to keep it. This last season I watched a home game against Green Bay where someone put up a sign that read "Lambeau South" right behind the goal post.

WTF I posted on one of the fan sites!!! My displeasure was met with rampant apathy. Who cares? They have a better team than we do. Stuff like that.

I still think St. Louis should keep the team but EJ doesn't exactly have a reputation these days as a loud fan base. Steven Jackson has complained publicly about this as well. I have never been there so I dont want to critisize too much.
It is kind of hard to focus in on the past two seasons and ignore the 90+ consecutive sellouts in St. Louis. There aren't many cities that fill the stadium when the team starts out 5-8 (2006) and 0-8 (2007)......which followed a 6-10 campaign in 2005. The fans have also grown weary of the front office. The fact that the Rams sold out from 1995-2006 shouldn't be overlooked because of some non sellouts in the past two abysmal seasons. As for noise level, when the team is good the stadium is extremely loud. During time span of the Rams being a viable contender the place got so loud you couldn't hear the guy next to you. Anyways, my main point is that it would be foolish to move a franchise that gets fantastic fan support to a place where fan support is questionable, especially while other cities are having problems with attendance.......see Jacksonville's attendance problems even though the team has been good.
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Old 05-21-2008, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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Well here's a brief synopsis on the Rams:

The LA Coliseum is a horrible venue for football. It's basically a track stadium so you are very far away and the seats go all the way to the ground. It's full capacity is 100,000. By contrast, Edward James is 70,000. Giants stadium (another large market) is 75,000. Gotta remember this is back in the 70s so it would routinely not sell out so no local TV.

If you did go to the game, there was not enough parking so you'd have to park on someone's lawn who charged $20 back then and walk half a mile through ,then, a bad neighborhood.

Ownership wanted to improve the stadium but a political group called the 'Coliseum commission' was a constant obstacle. In fact if you ask some people the Raiders move had more to do with failure to secure improvements to the Coliseum than with fan support.

Luxury boxes were just coming in to the league and teams that had those made tons more money than teams that didn't. Anyway the coliseum commission would never agree to any improvements that satisfied either the Rams or Raiders AND they would block any attempt to move to a stadium within LA city limits. That's why the Rams moved to Anaheim, because there was nothing the coliseum commission could do.

Anaheim was a disaster, the team was bad, ownership was unpopular (rightfully so at that time) and the stadium was an hour away for some people.

I will say this, you do have a point about cities with fewer teams. The San Jose Sharks and Sacrimento Kings have rabid fans because what else do they have?

I've always told fellow Ram fans that I hoped as long as the city of St. Louis supported the team, they deserved to keep it. This last season I watched a home game against Green Bay where someone put up a sign that read "Lambeau South" right behind the goal post.

WTF I posted on one of the fan sites!!! My displeasure was met with rampant apathy. Who cares? They have a better team than we do. Stuff like that.

I still think St. Louis should keep the team but EJ doesn't exactly have a reputation these days as a loud fan base. Steven Jackson has complained publicly about this as well. I have never been there so I dont want to critisize too much.
Beautiful synopsis of the situation in LA.

Go Lakers!
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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As for Canada, I don't think a team would last in Toronto as the fans would never care about them nearly as much as the Leafs, ever, and the novelty would where out. If the Bills have to leave buffalo I could see Hamilton becoming a legit location because they entire area and a lot of Buffalo would support the team plus more government money.
I'm sorry but the Toronto market is much bigger then the Hamilton market. Plus, IMO, their are more fans that enjoy the NFL in Toronto then any other sport expect hockey.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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... The fact that the Rams sold out from 1995-2006 shouldn't be overlooked because of some non sellouts in the past two abysmal seasons. ...
No, it shouldn't.

Just next time sometime tries to hang a "Lambeau South" banner directly behind the goal post on our home field will someone please 'accidentally' spill a beer on him. ;) No offense to any GB fans.
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Old 05-22-2008, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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hahaha they say that the LA population are some of the world's most environmentally aware people in the world... that's funny.

Since they only care about the environment while it's in fashion to do so.
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Old 05-22-2008, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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No, it shouldn't.

Just next time sometime tries to hang a "Lambeau South" banner directly behind the goal post on our home field will someone please 'accidentally' spill a beer on him. ;) No offense to any GB fans.
Haha, yeah that is definitely an accident that should happen next time something like that happens.
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Old 05-22-2008, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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No, it shouldn't.

Just next time sometime tries to hang a "Lambeau South" banner directly behind the goal post on our home field will someone please 'accidentally' spill a beer on him. ;) No offense to any GB fans.
Well the fact that the Green Bay fans outnumbered the St. Louis fans probably prevented that from happening.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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Well the fact that the Green Bay fans outnumbered the St. Louis fans probably prevented that from happening.
I think your right! But I'm between a rock and a hard place in this discussion.
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Old 05-22-2008, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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hahaha they say that the LA population are some of the world's most environmentally aware people in the world... that's funny.

Since they only care about the environment while it's in fashion to do so.
You know Paris was just saying the same thing to me!!
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Old 05-25-2008, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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I'll buy them for my $90 paycheck. I'd keep them in St. Louis.
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Old 05-25-2008, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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the whole nfc east is in the top 10 (3 in the top 5)
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Old 05-25-2008, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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900 million dollars for a franchise that's in the dumps right now? I doubt it.

And why wouldn't Las Vegas be an option? Someone's gonna have to get started there eventually, why not let it be the NFL, who owns every other professional sports league when it comes to popularity.

They could be called the Las Vegas Craps shooters.
they wouldnt have to change there name because Nevada State animal is the Desert Big Horn Sheep which is a Ram. So it would fit lol even though vegas has the market to support a team i dont think the nlf would allow it just yet.
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Old 05-25-2008, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by 21ST View Post
the whole nfc east is in the top 10 (3 in the top 5)
Well no ****. They play in the biggest markets in the league.
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Old 05-25-2008, 04:56 PM    (permalink
eaglesfan_45
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Originally Posted by Kurve View Post
they wouldnt have to change there name because Nevada State animal is the Desert Big Horn Sheep which is a Ram. So it would fit lol even though vegas has the market to support a team i dont think the nlf would allow it just yet.
The sports leagues are crazy for not putting a sports team in Vegas, we're dieing for one. I don't know what they think they're stopping by not putting a team here, we gamble on them any way. Vegas would definitely do what ever the sports team said to do. When the NBA told us not to allow gambling on the All-star game we didn't gamble. Vegas would kill to get a team. There are plenty of good sports team names in Nevada, like the Rattlers or Wranglers. We are a desert state that has a old western back round, plenty of good names.
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