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Old 06-17-2008, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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Im not a Falcons fan but I agree with Scar. The Falcons actually have quite a bit of talent at WR in Roddy White, Laurent Robinson, and Harry Douglas. Adding more talent at WR is completely useless if Matt Ryan can't get a pass off. Think about the division you play in. You have pass rushers like Julius Peppers, Gaines Adams, and Will Smith to deal with twice a season. I would think the best way to give yourselves a chance to win the division is to neutralize these players with a solid OL.
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Old 06-17-2008, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ATLDirtyBirds View Post
We have skill positions? We have Roddy "1 year" White. Everyone wanted him cut at the beginning of the season.. We have Laurent Robinson and his whopping 37 catches last year. Michael "Pick 6" Jenkins who is a major bust and Finneran who is coming off big injuries. And Harry Douglas who at best is a slot WR. Is there some potential in the top two? For sure. Espically if White repeats. It doesn't look like enough to ignore a talent like Crabtree though.
and it's pointless. we have the weapons. we have the #1 in Roddy, we have the #2 in Laurent and we have 2 different types of guys for our slot-man in Jenkins and Douglas. Finneran will be cut along with Jennings and Horn. to say we need a WR though is not only shortsighted but also is stupid in terms of building a team. What does this team need? OL, TE, NT, CB. and you think a WR (the least important spot on the field) is worth taking top 3 for us? no. we would get Oher or Smith and have them play RT or LT and have BAker play the other. we need the OL, we need the NT more than anything.
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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and it's pointless. we have the weapons. we have the #1 in Roddy, we have the #2 in Laurent and we have 2 different types of guys for our slot-man in Jenkins and Douglas. Finneran will be cut along with Jennings and Horn. to say we need a WR though is not only shortsighted but also is stupid in terms of building a team. What does this team need? OL, TE, NT, CB. and you think a WR (the least important spot on the field) is worth taking top 3 for us? no. we would get Oher or Smith and have them play RT or LT and have BAker play the other. we need the OL, we need the NT more than anything.

Least important position on the field? Ok. Look at how much a great WR can open up a offense, espically considering we have a new QB and a running attack. I'd say a great WR is much more important then a RT is. I'd be even more appalled if we traded up for a guy who's only good at pass-protecting to move him to RT.
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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If the Jamaal Anderson move to DT is true then this could all be moot because the Falcons would need a DE more than either OT or WR.
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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If the Jamaal Anderson move to DT is true then this could all be moot because the Falcons would need a DE more than either OT or WR.

I agree. I wouldn't be upset with Oher or Smith because they are great talents. I just love Crabtree, and I really don't see why we'd move a guy who's a pure LT after one season. This coming after we spent a first rounder on him.
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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I agree. I wouldn't be upset with Oher or Smith because they are great talents. I just love Crabtree, and I really don't see why we'd move a guy who's a pure LT after one season. This coming after we spent a first rounder on him.
I'm a big Crabtree fan(have seen since he was wrecking shop on the scout team his RS year) but suppsodly he is a 4.5 40 guy with average at best top end speed. Guys like that don't get drafted in the top 10. Especially when guys like Darrius Heyward-Bey has sub 4.3 speed at 6'3" 205.
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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I'm a big Crabtree fan(have seen since he was wrecking shop on the scout team his RS year) but suppsodly he is a 4.5 40 guy with average at best top end speed. Guys like that don't get drafted in the top 10. Especially when guys like Darrius Heyward-Bey has sub 4.3 speed at 6'3" 205.
Just to make a point, Larry Fitzgerald ran a 4.5 and went top 3. I don't think Crabtree is on his level, but speed isn't all prohibitive. Mike Williams ran a 4.5 and went 10th overall. Many people were expecting Calvin Johnson to run in the low 4.4/high 4.5 realm and still projected him as a top 5 pick.
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Old 06-17-2008, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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Just to make a point, Larry Fitzgerald ran a 4.5 and went top 3. I don't think Crabtree is on his level, but speed isn't all prohibitive. Mike Williams ran a 4.5 and went 10th overall. Many people were expecting Calvin Johnson to run in the low 4.4/high 4.5 realm and still projected him as a top 5 pick.
Well when Crabtree grows to be 6'5" 230 I'll give him the top 10 hype that Johnson and Mike Williams got
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Old 06-17-2008, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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Well when Crabtree grows to be 6'5" 230 I'll give him the top 10 hype that Johnson and Mike Williams got
I mostly agree, but the NFL is wide receiver starved. I'm not sure I see a dominant wideout in Crabtree, but he certainly does the little things you look for from a top notch wideout.

If Larry Fitzgerald can come off a hugely productive year in which he made a ton of amazing catches, come in at the combine at 6-3 220+ and run a 4.63, and wind up going top 3, then I think Crabtree, coming off a hugely productive year, coming into the combine at 6-3 205 (or so) and running somewhere in the 4.5 range, could go top 15 easily.

There are many more physically impressive wideouts, but no other name you toss is nearly as productive or does the little thing as well.
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Old 06-17-2008, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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I mostly agree, but the NFL is wide receiver starved. I'm not sure I see a dominant wideout in Crabtree, but he certainly does the little things you look for from a top notch wideout.

If Larry Fitzgerald can come off a hugely productive year in which he made a ton of amazing catches, come in at the combine at 6-3 220+ and run a 4.63, and wind up going top 3, then I think Crabtree, coming off a hugely productive year, coming into the combine at 6-3 205 (or so) and running somewhere in the 4.5 range, could go top 15 easily.

There are many more physically impressive wideouts, but no other name you toss is nearly as productive or does the little thing as well.
You know who else did all the little things well? Earl Bennett and look where he ended up. Ultimately, as much as I like Michael Crabtree, his stock is ultra inflated by the ridiculous numbers he put up in the Air Raid offense
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Old 06-17-2008, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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You know who else did all the little things well? Earl Bennett and look where he ended up. Ultimately, as much as I like Michael Crabtree, his stock is ultra inflated by the ridiculous numbers he put up in the Air Raid offense
Of course it is. I have a hard time saying that's a bad thing though. No other wide receiver in next year's draft is going to have anywhere near the amount of valuable film that Crabtree will have. That Texas Tech offense runs enough different sorts of routes to get a great handle on the kid's ability.

Of course he gets more attention because of his production. That's how it should be. The real question is if his stock will hold when scouts get to pour over the wealth of footage. Personally, I like his chances.
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Old 06-17-2008, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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Of course it is. I have a hard time saying that's a bad thing though. No other wide receiver in next year's draft is going to have anywhere near the amount of valuable film that Crabtree will have. That Texas Tech offense runs enough different sorts of routes to get a great handle on the kid's ability.

Of course he gets more attention because of his production. That's how it should be. The real question is if his stock will hold when scouts get to pour over the wealth of footage. Personally, I like his chances.
Personally I see Heyward-Bey and Percy Harvin as having higher draft stock.
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Old 06-17-2008, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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Personally I see Heyward-Bey and Percy Harvin as having higher draft stock.
I might buy Harvin, but Florida is going to have to start using him as a real receiver for that to happen. As for Heyward-Bey, he's not a particularly fluid athlete, nor has he produced anywhere near where he should be. He's going to have to seriously step it up to even have a shot at the first round.

Personally, after Crabtree, I'm eyeing these two fellows...



Of course, we'd have to see Maclin come out early, but with all that talent due to depart that Missouri offense, it could happen. And Aaron Kelly is a big fellow with solid hands and very nice body control.
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Old 06-17-2008, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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You know who else did all the little things well? Earl Bennett and look where he ended up. Ultimately, as much as I like Michael Crabtree, his stock is ultra inflated by the ridiculous numbers he put up in the Air Raid offense

Not only that, but I think he compares very similarly to Larry Fitzgerald. That's a big reason why I like him so much and could see him going top 5.
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Old 06-17-2008, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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Least important position on the field? Ok. Look at how much a great WR can open up a offense, espically considering we have a new QB and a running attack. I'd say a great WR is much more important then a RT is. I'd be even more appalled if we traded up for a guy who's only good at pass-protecting to move him to RT.
it's the least important spot on the field. Baker is looking like a true LT in minicamps. so we would look at NT. WR is the LEAST IMPORTANT POSITION on the field because no matter how much a good WR opens up the offense, the #2 WR (because Roddy is our #1) is the LEAST important one on the field. a #2 WR is only supposed to be the compliment to the #1 and help the pass game. and since we have a #1 who drew double teams all last year I don't think we need a WR in ANY way shape of form. what we need is a NT, RT (which is worth a 1st round pick, but not top 5, but I think we pick around 10-15) and CB. I think it's much more likely we go after Malcolm Jenkins to be our #1 CB than take any WR or OT.


lol Paranoid, Aaron is a friend of mine from HS. He's good and will be a good pro. but I don't think he will be more than a 3rd rounder.
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:38 AM    (permalink
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hey, my names mark and i am brand new to the forum. im a huge falcons fan and would like to say hello to my fellow falcons.

back to the question.... if you could have 5 people from the 2009 draft who would it be? i know its early but its just for fun.

mine would be....
Michael Oher- LT
Al Woods- DT
Vontae Davis- CB
Duke Robinson- OG
Myron Rolle- S
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Old 06-18-2008, 07:28 AM    (permalink
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Why would we take Malcolm Jenkins in a cover 2 scheme?
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Old 06-18-2008, 08:16 AM    (permalink
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cause he's physical and can stick with receivers and seems like hte kind of CB who can play in any scheme.
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Old 06-18-2008, 08:29 AM    (permalink
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cause he's physical and can stick with receivers and seems like hte kind of CB who can play in any scheme.
Picking a cover 2 corner in the top 10 isn't good value wise. Plus we have Houston and Jackson.
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Old 06-18-2008, 09:19 AM    (permalink
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he would give us versatility to run multitude of schemes. not just cover 2.
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Old 06-18-2008, 09:53 AM    (permalink
D-Rod
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Unless our (very promising) WR corps totally bombs this year, I really don't think that taking a WR, even Crabtree, with our first pick is an efficient use of resources.

I also would be reluctant to take a corner in the top 10, for the same reason, efficiency - in our scheme, CBs are not highly valued, and we would be better served addressing the lines.

Simply, I want either a DT or OL in the first next year.

My ideal scenario for next year:

1. A 7-9 season, garnering us the 10th pick.
2. Good signs from Ryan and Baker.
3. Main cause of 7-9 season being the failure to stop the run, and general inexperience.

I would then address DT and RT with our first two picks, in either order.

I don't think that #10 would be too high to take a RT, if we do happen to get Oher, Smith etc.

Taking a tackle in the top 5, on the other hand, would tend to suggest that we'd need to put him at LT, and figure out what to do with Baker (by the way, I don't think that Baker is too soft to play RG or RT...).
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Old 06-18-2008, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Rod View Post
Unless our (very promising) WR corps totally bombs this year, I really don't think that taking a WR, even Crabtree, with our first pick is an efficient use of resources.

I also would be reluctant to take a corner in the top 10, for the same reason, efficiency - in our scheme, CBs are not highly valued, and we would be better served addressing the lines.

Simply, I want either a DT or OL in the first next year.

My ideal scenario for next year:

1. A 7-9 season, garnering us the 10th pick.
2. Good signs from Ryan and Baker.
3. Main cause of 7-9 season being the failure to stop the run, and general inexperience.

I would then address DT and RT with our first two picks, in either order.

I don't think that #10 would be too high to take a RT, if we do happen to get Oher, Smith etc.

Taking a tackle in the top 5, on the other hand, would tend to suggest that we'd need to put him at LT, and figure out what to do with Baker (by the way, I don't think that Baker is too soft to play RG or RT...).
DT even though 2007 first round pick Jamaal Anderson is now a DT? Personally I think you all are in desperate need of a DE if that move is permanent. I'm thinking Greg Hardy could be a monster and worthy of a top 10 pick.
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Old 06-18-2008, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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Is Anderson going to be a fulltime DT or a Tuck like DE/DT tweener? Playing DE on first and second down and moving inside for pass rushing downs?
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Old 06-18-2008, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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Is Anderson going to be a fulltime DT or a Tuck like DE/DT tweener? Playing DE on first and second down and moving inside for pass rushing downs?


Nothing is official yet other then he will see some snaps at DT.
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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Let me clear up some things. When I say we need to pick Oher, I mean as of now. I think we should all be able to agree that Oher is the best talent of the 09 draft, or at least top3. I am not saying that a year from now we need to be picking him. I am just trying to stir up conversation for the offseason.

As for the WR issue, Crabtree is going to have to post up some good combine numbers and do well in the drills and such to be considered on the level as Calvin Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald. Larry was extremely productive and had EVERYTHING but top end speed. He had great acceleration, great hands, great routes, great personality, great YAC. Crabtree doesnt have anything on Fitz in those categories except for YAC. I really like Crabtree once he has the ball in his hands.

Instead of Malcolm Jenkins, I wish we would look at Vontae Davis. Drafting him and moving to a more man to man heavy scheme would be amazing. I personally think we are wasting alot of Houston's potential at CB with running so much zone. Houston has the tools to stick to a man like no other. Add Davis to the mix and our secondary should be set. Malcolm Jenkins would be a good pick between 5-10 if we end up picking there, but still, ATL is right. Picking a cover 2 CB that high is a waste of value.

Jamaal Anderson has to lose weight. Either way you look at it, he needs to lose weight for DE or UT. I dont think he can play NT. Coming out of college, he was kind of similar to Justin Tuck (Tuck - 6'5" 274, Anderson - 6'6" 280) so he might be able to play a similar role. I think their combine numbers were similar too...Anderson I think might have been quicker in the combine actually. But if his move is full time, then we can definitely pick a DE with ease.
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