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Old 06-24-2008, 03:45 PM    (permalink) 
MasterShake
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Originally Posted by Duster View Post
From a production standpoint, Lee and Davis are pretty similar. Lee has proven to be the more explosive playmaker thus far as evidenced by his stats. In terms of who is better, I think Lee has the edge as of now but we all know that Davis has as much potential as anybody.
Vernon Davis was the 4th best TE in the NFC based on stats alone last season. Add ontop of that his potential and SF deserves the #4 spot.

Donald Lee had a hall of fame QB and one of the best offenses in the league, also a WC offense which features the TE. Vernon Davis had NOTHING last year and put up basically the same stats.

I would think Vernon Davis is already the better TE and will probably blow him out of the water in upcoming years.
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Old 06-24-2008, 04:05 PM    (permalink) 
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Davis caught a respectable 52 passes for 509 yards last season, but he disappeared from the passing game for long stretches because he was being used as a blocker.
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"He's such a violent, physical blocker," Martz said, noting that many modern tight ends are more finesse-oriented, content to simply keep defenders at bay. "Vernon will try to knock you out. He's such a pleasant blend of power and physical with speed.
http://www.sacbee.com/sf49ers/story/1034766.html
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Old 06-24-2008, 06:23 PM    (permalink) 
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Why does potential make the 49ers a top 4 team at the TE position for the NFC? I thought production was the whole idea...

Once again, rankings are based on performances, not potential.
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:37 PM    (permalink) 
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Why does potential make the 49ers a top 4 team at the TE position for the NFC? I thought production was the whole idea...

Once again, rankings are based on performances, not potential.
And where does it say that? Maybe the article just doesn't cater to how you want the rankings to be.
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Old 06-24-2008, 10:00 PM    (permalink) 
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Why does potential make the 49ers a top 4 team at the TE position for the NFC? I thought production was the whole idea...

Once again, rankings are based on performances, not potential.
Dude...stop reading only what you want to see.

Vernon Davis was the 4th best TE in the NFC last year based on PRODUCTION.

That was in a horrible offense...one of the worst in league history.

He is worthy of the #4 spot based on that alone and his potential is icing on the cake to take th spot.
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Old 06-24-2008, 10:07 PM    (permalink) 
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Dude...stop reading only what you want to see.

Vernon Davis was the 4th best TE in the NFC last year based on PRODUCTION.

That was in a horrible offense...one of the worst in league history.

He is worthy of the #4 spot based on that alone and his potential is icing on the cake to take th spot.
My argument is that the fact that his offense was so terrible could actually aid his stats. When you're one of the few options on the team you get more balls thrown your way whereas a team like Green Bay has many options that are better than Lee hence he gets the ball less.
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Old 06-24-2008, 10:13 PM    (permalink) 
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My argument is that the fact that his offense was so terrible could actually aid his stats. When you're one of the few options on the team you get more balls thrown your way whereas a team like Green Bay has many options that are better than Lee hence he gets the ball less.
It certainly can, but I don't think it was the case in this offense.

The o-line and QB play was bad, stemming from a horrible OC. I don't think ANYONES stats were padded in last years 49er offense.
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Old 06-24-2008, 10:46 PM    (permalink) 
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It certainly can, but I don't think it was the case in this offense.

The o-line and QB play was bad, stemming from a horrible OC. I don't think ANYONES stats were padded in last years 49er offense.
Do you think Vernon Davis would have compiled better stats than Donald Lee last year if he played for the Packers? I doubt it personally. I think the two are pretty damn close in terms of ability right now.
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Old 06-24-2008, 10:48 PM    (permalink) 
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Do you think Vernon Davis would have compiled better stats than Donald Lee last year if he played for the Packers? I doubt it personally. I think the two are pretty damn close in terms of ability right now.
Is that a serious question? San Francisco had a pathetic OL, a QB who looked lost etc..compare that to a very talented OL and a HOF QB. Tough call.
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Old 06-24-2008, 10:49 PM    (permalink) 
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Do you think Vernon Davis would have compiled better stats than Donald Lee last year if he played for the Packers? I doubt it personally. I think the two are pretty damn close in terms of ability right now.
davis is one of the best TE's in terms of getting YAC in the league
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Old 06-24-2008, 10:51 PM    (permalink) 
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davis is one of the best TE's in terms of getting YAC in the league
That's gonna happen when you're so jacked you could pass for an official United States Tank.
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:25 PM    (permalink) 
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I honestly don't think it would be that much of a stretch to say that Davis is a better blocker than receiver right now. He's a monster with the ball in his hands, but he isn't a very natural receiver.
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:27 PM    (permalink) 
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I honestly don't think it would be that much of a stretch to say that Davis is a better blocker than receiver right now. He's a monster with the ball in his hands, but he isn't a very natural receiver.
I'd say it's easier to teach him routes and the like, whereas good/great blocking TEs are hard to find. He's nowhere near a finished product, but his blocking is excellent and with his type of potential, I don't see why he can't become the league's top TE.
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:42 PM    (permalink) 
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DONALDZZZZZ LEEEEEEZZZZZZ sorry I had to
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:02 AM    (permalink) 
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Originally Posted by PACKmanN View Post
Why does potential make the 49ers a top 4 team at the TE position for the NFC? I thought production was the whole idea...

Once again, rankings are based on performances, not potential.
Not all rankings are based on your criteria. In fact, I think most people myself included look at a combo of both production and potential. Take for instance scouting inc. which has Vernon Davis listed as the the 16th rated TE.

In comparison, scouts inc. has Donald Lee is ranked 73. Desmond Clark is ranked 21. Now are these guys really that much lower than Davis? Probably not, but it does go to show that scouts see things in Davis that production dosen't show.

I don't really have much of a problem with the Bears being ranked over the Niners because I think Greg Olson is going to be a good player, so I am basing my ranking on potential. I am not enamored by a old mid tier TE in Desmond Clark but his production does play into my decision making.

Likewise with the Packers, if you wanted to rank them above the niners you could only do so based on the potential of Jermichael Finely. Because the combined production of Lee and Finley is not equal to the production of Davis and Walker.
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Old 06-25-2008, 08:56 AM    (permalink) 
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Damn you guys are still debating this?
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Old 06-25-2008, 09:10 AM    (permalink) 
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davis is one of the best TE's in terms of getting YAC in the league
Not last year he wasn't. Davis averaged 3.1 YACs. Donald Lee averaged 6.0 YACs.
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Old 06-25-2008, 09:23 AM    (permalink) 
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Jordyzzzzz Nelsonzzzzzz is the best TE in the NFL, Packers should be #1
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Old 06-25-2008, 09:28 AM    (permalink) 
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Jordyzzzzz Nelsonzzzzzz is the best TE in the NFL, Packers should be #1
I see what you did there.
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Old 06-25-2008, 10:22 AM    (permalink) 
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Shockey is a top-5 TE at his position. Whether or not you believe he is a bad person or what not, you can't say he is a bad player. Also, Boss was able to step-in and play above-average football in only his rookie year.

Who would you rank in front of the Giants?
I didn't say that i have a problem with Shockey i think that he is a great player and i could care less that he is a temperamental guy. People are making it seen like Boss is a great player because he made a few catches in the playoffs I'm just not buying what everyone else is selling and need to see do more in the regular season but i will say that he looks like he has the skills to be an serviceable player in this league
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Old 06-25-2008, 10:41 AM    (permalink) 
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I didn't say that i have a problem with Shockey i think that he is a great player and i could care less that he is a temperamental guy. People are making it seen like Boss is a great player because he made a few catches in the playoffs I'm just not buying what everyone else is selling and need to see do more in the regular season but i will say that he looks like he has the skills to be an serviceable player in this league
Boss has very natural hands, which is a good, and has good chemistry with Eli. As for run blocking, he has TONS of margin to improve. That GB game he sucked! Alot of the tackles that were made on Jacobs was because the fool failed to win his matchup and seal the edge.

But supposedly he gained 20 lbs of muscle in the offseason went from 256 or something to 270 something, so we will see how that works out. But I grade him as a promising TE. After all he went from Division 2 player to pro player, and then starting. So baby steps is my expectation. But run blocking HAS to improve if Jacobs is to succeed in this running scheme.
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:05 PM    (permalink) 
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Not last year he wasn't. Davis averaged 3.1 YACs. Donald Lee averaged 6.0 YACs.
donald lee wasn't double and triple teamed
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:08 PM    (permalink) 
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donald lee wasn't double and triple teamed
Shut up. You can continue to backpedal as much as you want but he has you statistically, which is better than anything you have.
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:08 PM    (permalink) 
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donald lee wasn't double and triple teamed
You're right, Vernon Davis and his terrible YAC prove that he's one of the best after the catch in the NFL.
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:48 PM    (permalink) 
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Shut up. You can continue to backpedal as much as you want but he has you statistically, which is better than anything you have.
its true that lee wasn't ganged up on and you have nothing to refute that so you tell me to shut up? is everything about numbers here? was daunte culpepper a better qb than tom brady in 04 hyst because he threw for more td's and yards? you are just a stat w hore gtfo here. and part of a te's job is to block as well, and in that aspect, davis blows lee out of the water. davis consistently drags defenders for extra yards and he fights for every single yard, but you can't say the same about lee.
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