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Old 01-25-2007, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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the jags have absolutly no reason to get rid of him. Garrard is not a better QB
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Old 01-25-2007, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by eazyb81
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51
I'm seriously begining to question if some of you Browns fans even watch the Browns.

Ok, you're going to replace a Quarterback who only managed to survive by running for his life on every play because the offensive line is terrible and you have no credible threat at runningback with a guy that is arguably the most immobile in the entire league? I mean seriously? Did you think about that for a second or did you just notice that Leftwich has a higher rating on Madden than Charlie and think "well there's an upgrade". I would say it makes no sense, but it actually makes less than no sense. Your idea makes negative sense, which isn't even possible. Congrats.
Leave it to Bearsfan to act like the angry dad scolding his dumb child.

But seriously, BF51 is right. You need oline in the worst way. Add dline to that too.

People always forget that battles are won and lost in the trenches. The Browns have a great LB core, underrated secondary, great skill position players, but continually go 5-11 every year. Why? Because they have a doodoo oline and dline. Thats why.
I don't think any Browns fans are saying to acquire Leftwich instead of improving the offensive line - they would like to do both. Assuming that they improve the O-line through the draft and/or free agency, do you really think Leftwich would not be an improvement at QB?
Im personally not a big fan of Leftwich. He's immobile, he takes too long to make his decision, and he winds up too much. Defenses react to his wind up, thats why he's always getting those receivers hit. He also doesn't put any touch on the ball.

He's like Bledsoe. I don't think it can work.
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Old 01-25-2007, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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If you're going to put money into improving the line, then give Charlie a shot to play behind it. He hasn't been given a fair chance at all considering that most games he's gotten absolutely creamed. I live in Northern Ohio, I watch the Browns every week, most of these questions are not hard to answer.

If they have a chance to draft Brady Quinn, fine, I understand that. He's an elite Quarterback and hopefully the Browns are tired of picking in the top 5 and aren't sure a chance like that will come again. That being said, Byron Leftwich is not an elite Quarterback, he's not even a very good Quarterback. Neither is Troy Smith. Neither is anyone else they are going to bring in outside of Quinn or Russell. Outside of those two, improve your game in the trenches, find a runningback that has talent (I like Droughns but come on, he's not a franchise back) and go with the two guys you have. Continuing the circle of Quarterbacks in Cleveland is NOT the answer.
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Old 01-25-2007, 11:57 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by eazyb81
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51
I'm seriously begining to question if some of you Browns fans even watch the Browns.

Ok, you're going to replace a Quarterback who only managed to survive by running for his life on every play because the offensive line is terrible and you have no credible threat at runningback with a guy that is arguably the most immobile in the entire league? I mean seriously? Did you think about that for a second or did you just notice that Leftwich has a higher rating on Madden than Charlie and think "well there's an upgrade". I would say it makes no sense, but it actually makes less than no sense. Your idea makes negative sense, which isn't even possible. Congrats.
Leave it to Bearsfan to act like the angry dad scolding his dumb child.

But seriously, BF51 is right. You need oline in the worst way. Add dline to that too.

People always forget that battles are won and lost in the trenches. The Browns have a great LB core, underrated secondary, great skill position players, but continually go 5-11 every year. Why? Because they have a doodoo oline and dline. Thats why.
I don't think any Browns fans are saying to acquire Leftwich instead of improving the offensive line - they would like to do both. Assuming that they improve the O-line through the draft and/or free agency, do you really think Leftwich would not be an improvement at QB?
Im personally not a big fan of Leftwich. He's immobile, he takes too long to make his decision, and he winds up too much. Defenses react to his wind up, thats why he's always getting those receivers hit. He also doesn't put any touch on the ball.

He's like Bledsoe. I don't think it can work.
I actually disagree. His immobility isn't an issue any more than it is the other immobile quarterbacks of the league. The difference is that Jacksonville's offensive line has been horribly inconsistent until this year, where they flourished under the tutelage of Mike Tice and Andy Heck. They turned into an elite unit.

As far as the windup is concerned...I don't see a problem with it, really. He's had a long windup all his life. He's played in the league for awhile now. He knows how to work around it. The receivers aren't hit because of the windup. They're getting hit because they're all big, possession receivers who can't gain seperation.

One thing thats really overlooked about Byron is his ability to see the field. He doesn't make a lot of "WTF?" decisions, and is able to see more than just his first option.
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Old 01-25-2007, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by eazyb81
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51
I'm seriously begining to question if some of you Browns fans even watch the Browns.

Ok, you're going to replace a Quarterback who only managed to survive by running for his life on every play because the offensive line is terrible and you have no credible threat at runningback with a guy that is arguably the most immobile in the entire league? I mean seriously? Did you think about that for a second or did you just notice that Leftwich has a higher rating on Madden than Charlie and think "well there's an upgrade". I would say it makes no sense, but it actually makes less than no sense. Your idea makes negative sense, which isn't even possible. Congrats.
Leave it to Bearsfan to act like the angry dad scolding his dumb child.

But seriously, BF51 is right. You need oline in the worst way. Add dline to that too.

People always forget that battles are won and lost in the trenches. The Browns have a great LB core, underrated secondary, great skill position players, but continually go 5-11 every year. Why? Because they have a doodoo oline and dline. Thats why.
I don't think any Browns fans are saying to acquire Leftwich instead of improving the offensive line - they would like to do both. Assuming that they improve the O-line through the draft and/or free agency, do you really think Leftwich would not be an improvement at QB?
Im personally not a big fan of Leftwich. He's immobile, he takes too long to make his decision, and he winds up too much. Defenses react to his wind up, thats why he's always getting those receivers hit. He also doesn't put any touch on the ball.

He's like Bledsoe. I don't think it can work.
I actually disagree. His immobility isn't an issue any more than it is the other immobile quarterbacks of the league. The difference is that Jacksonville's offensive line has been horribly inconsistent until this year, where they flourished under the tutelage of Mike Tice and Andy Heck. They turned into an elite unit.

As far as the windup is concerned...I don't see a problem with it, really. He's had a long windup all his life. He's played in the league for awhile now. He knows how to work around it. The receivers aren't hit because of the windup. They're getting hit because they're all big, possession receivers who can't gain seperation.

One thing thats really overlooked about Byron is his ability to see the field. He doesn't make a lot of "WTF?" decisions, and is able to see more than just his first option.
You know better than I do. Why isn't he panning out then? I don't get it. I understand the WRs drop balls and all, but even then, he's not scoring enough. I just assume that the windup is allowing DBs to break on the ball quicker and react to throws quicker.

And while he has immobility, what I noticed is a lack of pocket presence. Yes, alot of qbs have immobility, but thats overrated. Its your ability to step up and around in the pocket to create time thats important and I don't really see Leftwich do it.

Im just making assumptions based on what Ive seen. You have more knowledge on this matter than I do, so I'll take your word for it. But I just can't figure out why its not working if theres nothing wrong with Leftwich.
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Old 01-25-2007, 12:38 PM    (permalink
 
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I'm seriously begining to question if some of you Browns fans even watch the Browns.

Ok, you're going to replace a Quarterback who only managed to survive by running for his life on every play because the offensive line is terrible and you have no credible threat at runningback with a guy that is arguably the most immobile in the entire league? I mean seriously? Did you think about that for a second or did you just notice that Leftwich has a higher rating on Madden than Charlie and think "well there's an upgrade". I would say it makes no sense, but it actually makes less than no sense. Your idea makes negative sense, which isn't even possible. Congrats.
Ive watched Charlie Frye, and the OL is a huge part of his lack of sucess. But then you have to look at times when hes had 5 seconds to throw the ball and still shows little signs. A good promising QB would at least grasp the little chances he recieved from a deffense. Charlies hands are VERY small and his arm strength will not cut it durring the Cleveland winters. He makes horrible decisions, and the coaching staff has said multiple times he doesnt practice well at all which usually effects game day. He has been seen multiple times fighting with offensive players, which shows lack of leadership. Noone will argue him as a solid back-up, but to think he is starting material is rediculous.

We do need to fix our OL problems before we get any future QB's, but we allready have a great start.

We signed Kevin Shaffer to LT for 5, to 6 years and he only gave up 3.5 sacks last year. Lecharles Bentley was lost for the year, and maybe most of next year aswell, but will be back eventualy. Kelly Butler played ok in limited action and was resigned at least for a valuable backup. We have allready talked to Justin Blalock 2 consecutive days durring the senior bowl and he projects well into the early 2nd round as a RG. We are also considering FA OG Kris Jenkins, whos hometown is in Troy Ohio and has expressed interest in playing here in the past. Currently him and the Chargers are far apart on a new deal. So the OL will be fixed.

Heres hopeing for Brady Quinn this year.
And Darren Mcfadden next year.
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Old 01-25-2007, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by eazyb81
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51
I'm seriously begining to question if some of you Browns fans even watch the Browns.

Ok, you're going to replace a Quarterback who only managed to survive by running for his life on every play because the offensive line is terrible and you have no credible threat at runningback with a guy that is arguably the most immobile in the entire league? I mean seriously? Did you think about that for a second or did you just notice that Leftwich has a higher rating on Madden than Charlie and think "well there's an upgrade". I would say it makes no sense, but it actually makes less than no sense. Your idea makes negative sense, which isn't even possible. Congrats.
Leave it to Bearsfan to act like the angry dad scolding his dumb child.

But seriously, BF51 is right. You need oline in the worst way. Add dline to that too.

People always forget that battles are won and lost in the trenches. The Browns have a great LB core, underrated secondary, great skill position players, but continually go 5-11 every year. Why? Because they have a doodoo oline and dline. Thats why.
I don't think any Browns fans are saying to acquire Leftwich instead of improving the offensive line - they would like to do both. Assuming that they improve the O-line through the draft and/or free agency, do you really think Leftwich would not be an improvement at QB?
Im personally not a big fan of Leftwich. He's immobile, he takes too long to make his decision, and he winds up too much. Defenses react to his wind up, thats why he's always getting those receivers hit. He also doesn't put any touch on the ball.

He's like Bledsoe. I don't think it can work.
I actually disagree. His immobility isn't an issue any more than it is the other immobile quarterbacks of the league. The difference is that Jacksonville's offensive line has been horribly inconsistent until this year, where they flourished under the tutelage of Mike Tice and Andy Heck. They turned into an elite unit.

As far as the windup is concerned...I don't see a problem with it, really. He's had a long windup all his life. He's played in the league for awhile now. He knows how to work around it. The receivers aren't hit because of the windup. They're getting hit because they're all big, possession receivers who can't gain seperation.

One thing thats really overlooked about Byron is his ability to see the field. He doesn't make a lot of "WTF?" decisions, and is able to see more than just his first option.
You know better than I do. Why isn't he panning out then? I don't get it. I understand the WRs drop balls and all, but even then, he's not scoring enough. I just assume that the windup is allowing DBs to break on the ball quicker and react to throws quicker.

And while he has immobility, what I noticed is a lack of pocket presence. Yes, alot of qbs have immobility, but thats overrated. Its your ability to step up and around in the pocket to create time thats important and I don't really see Leftwich do it.

Im just making assumptions based on what Ive seen. You have more knowledge on this matter than I do, so I'll take your word for it. But I just can't figure out why its not working if theres nothing wrong with Leftwich.
There are two things wrong with Leftwich besides the obvious things that have been covered:

1. He's been injury prone.
2. He's not a great QB, he's just "good". He's not bad, he's not very good (although I think he can be under the right circumstances), he's just good. And when you're just "good", a lack of offensive talent isn't going to help you score those points.
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Old 01-25-2007, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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Leftwich has been pretty good when hes healthy. I think he had a QB rating over 90 in 05. He just cant stay healthy, and that is the problem. I think the deal with Leftwich though is that his contract will be up next year and the Jags might be figuring theres a good chance he will have another injury-riddled season and then they'll lose him in FA and get no compensation so they might want to deal him now and get what they can while he still has some value and move on.
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Old 01-25-2007, 01:13 PM    (permalink
 
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If they sign Micheal Turner in the offseason, draft Joe Thomas and start Derek Anderson they would probably get a 6-10 or 7-9 record. Oh and they could also sign Leonard Davis. This is how the lineup would look like.
QB- Derek Anderson
RB- Micheal Turner
WR- Joe Jurivios ( Who Derek ANderson has alot of sucess with)
WR- Braylon Edwards
TE- Kellen Winslow lll
OT- Leonard Davis & Joe Thomas
OG- Joe Andruzzi & Cosey Colemen
C- LeCharles Bentley
^^^
Thats a good lineup for the Browns. Gaurds are the weakest postions there.
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Old 01-25-2007, 01:15 PM    (permalink
nyjetsguy27
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leftwich doesnt fit in with cleveland at all. leftwich is one of those big, hard to bring down, kinda fatboys playing QB. i dont see him with the browns at all
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Old 01-25-2007, 01:22 PM    (permalink
 
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OT- Leonard Davis & Joe Thomas
OG- Joe Andruzzi & Cosey Colemen
C- LeCharles Bentley
Leonard Davis shouldnt be an OT anymore.
Cosey Coleman is gone due to FA
Benley most liekly will miss the entire season.
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Old 01-25-2007, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by eazyb81
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51
I'm seriously begining to question if some of you Browns fans even watch the Browns.

Ok, you're going to replace a Quarterback who only managed to survive by running for his life on every play because the offensive line is terrible and you have no credible threat at runningback with a guy that is arguably the most immobile in the entire league? I mean seriously? Did you think about that for a second or did you just notice that Leftwich has a higher rating on Madden than Charlie and think "well there's an upgrade". I would say it makes no sense, but it actually makes less than no sense. Your idea makes negative sense, which isn't even possible. Congrats.
Leave it to Bearsfan to act like the angry dad scolding his dumb child.

But seriously, BF51 is right. You need oline in the worst way. Add dline to that too.

People always forget that battles are won and lost in the trenches. The Browns have a great LB core, underrated secondary, great skill position players, but continually go 5-11 every year. Why? Because they have a doodoo oline and dline. Thats why.
I don't think any Browns fans are saying to acquire Leftwich instead of improving the offensive line - they would like to do both. Assuming that they improve the O-line through the draft and/or free agency, do you really think Leftwich would not be an improvement at QB?
Im personally not a big fan of Leftwich. He's immobile, he takes too long to make his decision, and he winds up too much. Defenses react to his wind up, thats why he's always getting those receivers hit. He also doesn't put any touch on the ball.

He's like Bledsoe. I don't think it can work.
I actually disagree. His immobility isn't an issue any more than it is the other immobile quarterbacks of the league. The difference is that Jacksonville's offensive line has been horribly inconsistent until this year, where they flourished under the tutelage of Mike Tice and Andy Heck. They turned into an elite unit.

As far as the windup is concerned...I don't see a problem with it, really. He's had a long windup all his life. He's played in the league for awhile now. He knows how to work around it. The receivers aren't hit because of the windup. They're getting hit because they're all big, possession receivers who can't gain seperation.

One thing thats really overlooked about Byron is his ability to see the field. He doesn't make a lot of "WTF?" decisions, and is able to see more than just his first option.
You know better than I do. Why isn't he panning out then? I don't get it. I understand the WRs drop balls and all, but even then, he's not scoring enough. I just assume that the windup is allowing DBs to break on the ball quicker and react to throws quicker.

And while he has immobility, what I noticed is a lack of pocket presence. Yes, alot of qbs have immobility, but thats overrated. Its your ability to step up and around in the pocket to create time thats important and I don't really see Leftwich do it.

Im just making assumptions based on what Ive seen. You have more knowledge on this matter than I do, so I'll take your word for it. But I just can't figure out why its not working if theres nothing wrong with Leftwich.
There are two things wrong with Leftwich besides the obvious things that have been covered:

1. He's been injury prone.
2. He's not a great QB, he's just "good". He's not bad, he's not very good (although I think he can be under the right circumstances), he's just good. And when you're just "good", a lack of offensive talent isn't going to help you score those points.
Pretty much sums it up. And, at this point, we need a solid, game manager at quarterback who will convert on third down and not turn the ball over. That's exactly what Leftwich is, although, with his arm, he still offers the threat of a big play.

Garrard, on the other hand, is not what we need. Garrard has significantly higher upside as a quarterback. However, it will take time to evaluate Garrard and decide whether he can overcome his decision making deficiencies. That's not what this team needs.
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Old 01-25-2007, 02:34 PM    (permalink
 
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OT- Leonard Davis & Joe Thomas
OG- Joe Andruzzi & Cosey Colemen
C- LeCharles Bentley
Leonard Davis shouldnt be an OT anymore.
Cosey Coleman is gone due to FA
Benley most liekly will miss the entire season.
Leonard Davis is still solid at that postion and can play gaurd if the Browns want him to. If Bently doesn't play next year draft Doug Datish in the 2nd-3rd rounds. Ben Grubbs is another option for gaurd. If they sign Micheal Turner and give Derek Anderson atleast 1 season to play you guys could focus most of the draft on o-line.
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Old 01-25-2007, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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Why has everyone forgoten about Mr. Frye?
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Old 01-25-2007, 06:55 PM    (permalink
 
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Why has everyone forgoten about Mr. Frye?
in training camp they should have Charlie Frye and Derek Anderson battle it out for the starting job. They both are solid QB's iand they have all the weapons they need ( Braylon Edwards, Joe Jurivious, Kellen Winslowll) They just need a better running back and an o-line that gives them enuf time to make good decisons.
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Old 01-25-2007, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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I believe Houston's QB problems will be cured with Jake Plummer due to his relationship with Gary Kubiak
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Old 01-25-2007, 07:23 PM    (permalink
 
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I believe Houston's QB problems will be cured with Jake Plummer due to his relationship with Gary Kubiak
kinda off topic but yea Jake would be an improvement but I still like David Carr and I belive he can be a great QB if you just give him a medicore line or better.
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Old 01-25-2007, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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Must we have quotations of 7 peoples quotes in one replay? It takes up a ridiculuos amount room. All the quotations are unecessary since the there just a couple of rep back anyway.

As for Plummer, he is an upgrade over Carr, but he's not a long-term answer. He's just a decent starter that is getting up there in years, not someone you really want for an extended period of time as your starter. He's good enough as a backup or to play for a year or 2 if you bring in a young QB or have Carr take a year off starting.
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