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Old 01-29-2007, 06:28 PM    (permalink
Hurricane Ditka
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Why not just call this the let's all be homers thread?
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Old 01-29-2007, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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Why not just call this the let's all be homers thread?
These threads are always great I love how 75% of the players playing right now should be in the HOF.
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Old 01-29-2007, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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People need to keep in mind that simply having nice-looking stats doesn't always cut it for HOF nods; Players are judged in comparison to their peers, and HOF voters specifically like to see players that were dominant for their particular position.

Some of the players listed have great stats, but were never the best player at their position at any point in time during their career.
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Old 01-29-2007, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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Ray Lewis
Bailey
Manning
Brady
Faulk
Martin - won't be in right away, but will be in eventually.
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Old 01-29-2007, 06:39 PM    (permalink
 
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Manning
Champ
Harrison
Brady
Ray Lewis
Tony G
Ladanian
Favre
Brooks
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Old 01-29-2007, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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CURTIS MARTIN
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Old 01-29-2007, 06:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jetsfan3
CURTIS MARTIN
Just curious, but when was Curtis Martin ever the best RB in the league, or even one of the most feared RBs? Yes, he had some good seasons and was very durable, but I never remember him being one of the very best RBs in the NFL.

In my opinion, he seems like the RB version of Art Monk.
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Old 01-29-2007, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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Sure Fire;

Brett Favre
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
LaDainian Tomlinson
Marvin Harrison
Orlando Pace
Jonathan Ogden
Michael Strahan
Champ Bailey
Ty Law
Ray Lewis
Brian Urlacher
Junior Seau
Warren Sapp
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Old 01-29-2007, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by eazyb81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetsfan3
CURTIS MARTIN
Just curious, but when was Curtis Martin ever the best RB in the league, or even one of the most feared RBs? Yes, he had some good seasons and was very durable, but I never remember him being one of the very best RBs in the NFL.

In my opinion, he seems like the RB version of Art Monk.
#4 in rushing yards all time doesnt get you in :shock:
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Old 01-29-2007, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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If Curtis Martin gets in, then that paves the way for above average players who played a long time. Might as well put Keenan McCardell and Issac Bruce in too.
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Old 01-29-2007, 06:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by 4pAc
Quote:
Originally Posted by eazyb81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetsfan3
CURTIS MARTIN
Just curious, but when was Curtis Martin ever the best RB in the league, or even one of the most feared RBs? Yes, he had some good seasons and was very durable, but I never remember him being one of the very best RBs in the NFL.

In my opinion, he seems like the RB version of Art Monk.
#4 in rushing yards all time doesnt get you in :shock:
Again, has extremely durable, but when was he the best RB in the league?

Also, Art Monk retired as the career leader in receptions, yet is not in the Hall of Fame.
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If Chase Daniel finishes top 5 in the Heisman I'll cut my balls off.

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Old 01-29-2007, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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don't forget about Adam Vinatieri....

as for coaches go (some may be in already)
-Parcells
-Gibbs
-Belichek
-Holmgrem
-Cowher
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Old 01-29-2007, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver
Sure Fire;

Brett Favre
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
LaDainian Tomlinson
Marvin Harrison
Orlando Pace
Jonathan Ogden
Michael Strahan
Champ Bailey
Ty Law
Ray Lewis
Brian Urlacher
Junior Seau
Warren Sapp
Add Shields and Gonzo and like it. :D
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Old 01-29-2007, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver
Sure Fire;

Brett Favre
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
LaDainian Tomlinson
Marvin Harrison
Orlando Pace
Jonathan Ogden
Michael Strahan
Champ Bailey
Ty Law
Ray Lewis
Brian Urlacher
Junior Seau
Warren Sapp
i'd agree with that list... but in a couple years i think you could add Olin Kreutz to that list... although Centers rarely get in, he has been the best in the game at his position for at least 3 years, and probably at least 3 or 4 more to come.
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Old 01-29-2007, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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For Curtis Martin,

Year | Rushing Yards | League Rank | Yards from Scrimmage | League Rank

1995 | 1487 | 03 | 1748 | 05
1996 | 1152 | 09 | 1485 | 08
1997 | 1160 | 08 | 1456 | 10
1998 | 1287 | 08 | 1652 | 05
1999 | 1464 | 02 | 1723 | 05
2000 | 1204 | 12 | 1712 | 09
2001 | 1513 | 02 | 1883 | 04
2002 | 1094 | 15 | 1456 | 19
2003 | 1308 | 12 | 1570 | 14
2004 | 1697 | 01 | 1942 | 03

Pretty darn impressive. Among the top 10 in yards from scrimmage 8 times in his career. He led the league in rushing once, finished second twice, and came in third once. Although he was only the 'best' statistically once, hardly any other player can be that consistent. Running backs take the most hits, and most only have a shelf life of 5 or 6 years. He was consistently once of the best for 11 years.

My take: he's in.
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Old 01-29-2007, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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i see like 4 lists without Brett Favre. Call me a packers homer, but that's just ******* stupid. he's easily the biggest lock currently in the NFL.
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Old 01-29-2007, 07:33 PM    (permalink
 
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i see like 4 lists without Brett Favre. Call me a packers homer, but that's just *********** stupid. he's easily the biggest lock currently in the NFL.
I think they're probably just forgetting him. Anyone that thinks he won't get in has to have some kind of disability.
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Old 01-29-2007, 07:35 PM    (permalink
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All homerism aside, anyone who has an OL and not Ogden, or defensive player and not Ray Lewis is rediculous. Ray has two DPOY awards and a super bowl MVP, and Ogden has been to more probowls than any active OL and was the most dominant OL of his era. People have short memories; not long ago Ray was winning the argument over who was the greatest MLB of all time. Same with Ogden at OT, he was in the mix. They're as sure fire as it gets along with Favre, Brady and Manning. Thats the list. You have to be dominant in your era, understand what that means. That's not flavor of the month or who was good for the past three years. Think about how many probowls (is it approaching double digits?), DPOY/OPOY's, records, MVP's and rings the guys on your list have been to compared to those guys.
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Old 01-29-2007, 07:40 PM    (permalink
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All homerism aside, anyone who has an OL and not Ogden, or defensive player and not Ray Lewis is rediculous. Ray has two DPOY awards and a super bowl MVP, and [Ogden has been to more probowls than any active OL and was the most dominant OL of his era. People have short memories; not long ago Ray was winning the argument over who was the greatest MLB of all time. Same with Ogden at OT, he was in the mix. They're as sure fire as it gets along with Brady and Manning. Thats the list. You have to be dominant in your era, understand what that means. That's not flavor of the month or who was good for the past three years. Think about how many probowls (is it approaching double digits?), DPOY/OPOY's, records, MVP's and rings the guys on your list have been to compared to those guys.
I beg to differ; Orlando Pace and Willie Roaf were better during their prime, and they shut-down the very best DEs in the league. Ogden dominated average and below-average talent, but struggled against the top DEs in the league.

Ogden gets a lot of hype, but he is a step below Pace and Roaf on the all-time OT rankings.
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Old 01-29-2007, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eazyb81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohleive
All homerism aside, anyone who has an OL and not Ogden, or defensive player and not Ray Lewis is rediculous. Ray has two DPOY awards and a super bowl MVP, and [Ogden has been to more probowls than any active OL and was the most dominant OL of his era. People have short memories; not long ago Ray was winning the argument over who was the greatest MLB of all time. Same with Ogden at OT, he was in the mix. They're as sure fire as it gets along with Brady and Manning. Thats the list. You have to be dominant in your era, understand what that means. That's not flavor of the month or who was good for the past three years. Think about how many probowls (is it approaching double digits?), DPOY/OPOY's, records, MVP's and rings the guys on your list have been to compared to those guys.
I beg to differ; Orlando Pace and Willie Roaf were better during their prime, and they shut-down the very best DEs in the league. Ogden dominated average and below-average talent, but struggled against the top DEs in the league.

Ogden gets a lot of hype, but he is a step below Pace and Roaf on the all-time OT rankings.
What?? Who did Pace line up against in the NFC west? And Roaf, Roaf is the one who's overhyped, simply because he played on a great Chiefs OL, blocking for some great backs. Why don't you compare Pro Bowls or All Pro's; those are the only stats you can get on OL and JO dominates those for his time. The only guy who could challenge JO for the title was Boselli and tragically he didn't get his chance.
You have to factor in consistency, you can't say somebody else as better in their prime (what is this anyways? A 2-year window? 1?). Consistency helps eliminate the variables involved such as the argument that JO has faced weak opposition. Thats rediculous, he's faced and dominated so many different guys. JO was better than those guys in their prime anyways, he never had a single probowler on the line with him, and still dominated. OL has been a weak link for the Ravens for their entire existence almost and still JO has never not been looked at as a top 5 OT. Pace played on one of the most prolific offenses of all time and has not made as many pro bowls or all-pro teams. What have the Ravens always been known for? Defense.
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Old 01-29-2007, 07:47 PM    (permalink
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I also put years it could take to put them in (including the 5yr delay)
Favre (5-6)
Manning(5-7)
Brady(5-10)
Warner?(10+)
Tomlinson(5-7)
Martin(5-7)
Tiki Barber(Does he count?)(5-9)
Faulk (6-16)
Harrison (5-15)
Galloway (10-20)
McCardell (10-20)
Pace (6-12)
Roaf (6-12)
Gonzalez (8-15)
Gates? (10+ for now)
Strahan (5-10)
Bailey (6-10)
Law (6-10)
Ray Lewis (5-6)
Urlacher (5-10)
Sapp (7-15)
Vinatieri (15-25)

Players who arent so surefire
Edge: If he is highly successful in Arizona than he could get in.

Ed Reed: As stated earlier another year as the top safety then he'll get in.

Ahman Green: Green Bay's (future or present) all-time leading rusher, which means he beat out Jim Taylor and Paul Hornung.

TO: He has to go out of his career as a guy with a good personality(GROW UP!)

Moss: If he has another great season then maybe he will. He's been quiet for awhile until Lan Kiffin came in.

Gramama Johnson: If he plays long enough.

Alexander: It depends if he rebounds.

Along list, but not saying all will get picked the same year.
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Old 01-29-2007, 07:49 PM    (permalink
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neko4
I also put years it could take to put them in (including the 5yr delay)
Favre (5-6)
Manning(5-7)
Brady(5-10)
Warner?(10+)
Tomlinson(5-7)
Martin(5-7)
Tiki Barber(Does he count?)(5-9)
Faulk (6-16)
Harrison (5-15)
Galloway (10-20)
McCardell (10-20)
Pace (6-12)
Roaf (6-12)
Gonzalez (8-15)
Gates? (10+ for now)
Strahan (5-10)
Bailey (6-10)
Law (6-10)
Ray Lewis (5-6)
Urlacher (5-10)
Sapp (7-15)
Vinatieri (15-25)
Warner doesn't have a shot in hell and I think you're way too harsh on these years. Favre, Ray, Peyton and some others are all first ballot locks. And 15 years for Vinatieri?
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Old 01-29-2007, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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Can I mention the DMVP without being a homer?
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Old 01-29-2007, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohleive
Quote:
Originally Posted by eazyb81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohleive
All homerism aside, anyone who has an OL and not Ogden, or defensive player and not Ray Lewis is rediculous. Ray has two DPOY awards and a super bowl MVP, and [Ogden has been to more probowls than any active OL and was the most dominant OL of his era. People have short memories; not long ago Ray was winning the argument over who was the greatest MLB of all time. Same with Ogden at OT, he was in the mix. They're as sure fire as it gets along with Brady and Manning. Thats the list. You have to be dominant in your era, understand what that means. That's not flavor of the month or who was good for the past three years. Think about how many probowls (is it approaching double digits?), DPOY/OPOY's, records, MVP's and rings the guys on your list have been to compared to those guys.
I beg to differ; Orlando Pace and Willie Roaf were better during their prime, and they shut-down the very best DEs in the league. Ogden dominated average and below-average talent, but struggled against the top DEs in the league.

Ogden gets a lot of hype, but he is a step below Pace and Roaf on the all-time OT rankings.
What?? Who did Pace line up against in the NFC west? And Roaf, Roaf is the one who's overhyped, simply because he played on a great Chiefs OL, blocking for some great backs. Why don't you compare Pro Bowls or All Pro's; those are the only stats you can get on OL and JO dominates those for his time. The only guy who could challenge JO for the title was Boselli and tragically he didn't get his chance.
Yes, guys like Priest Holmes, Trent Green, Derrick Blaylock...they've always been known as great NFL players, right? They were the ones that were making that KC O-line look good, not the other way around. The odd thing is that KC's offense took a huge nosedive this year for some reason....I still can't figure out what was missing.

You're right, Pro Bowls and All Pros are the only way to compare HOF credentials, thanks for making that highly intelligent point.

Do you think Ogden still has nightmares about Freeney?
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Old 01-29-2007, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by neko4
Vinatieri (15-25)
Warner doesn't have a shot in hell and I think you're way too harsh on these years. Favre, Ray, Peyton and some others are all first ballot locks. And 15 years for Vinatieri?
I just dont know how kind the voters will be on a kicker.
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