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Old 10-16-2008, 05:40 PM    (permalink
BamaFalcon59
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The league is rediculous, Goodell is horrible. The whole incident was blown out of proportion.
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Old 10-16-2008, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by I am the beast View Post
There are over ONE MILLION non-violent drug offenders in jail/prison in the US. Think about that. One million citizens are criminals who are caged 24 hours per day because of their usage and/or distribution of drugs.

Why not lock up obese people, smokers, and alcoholics? After all, they're doing harm to themselves just like drug users. Also, better lock up every Bacardi, DuMaurier, and McDonald's employee since they are supplying these people with these dangerous substances.
I don't recall Johnny Walker or Ronald McDonald hitting a few kids with stray bullets when they were getting pay back on Jack Daniels or The colonel for taking their corner...

What matters, whether or not you agree with the law, is that society as a whole has deemed that it is wrong to pit two animals against each other for the purpose of seeing them maim and hill each other. Society has deemed the practice barbaric, inhumane and therefore illegal.

Michael Vick chose to knowing break that law and in doing so made a conscious decision to go outside of societies law. Regardless of whether he was smokin' bud or raping women, you break laws, you face consequences.

It doesn't matter whether its traditional for you to do something, or if its culturally acceptable.

Don't try and liken narcotics to fast food or alcohol either, its plain stupid and you'll get embarrassed.

Don't like it move to another country where the laws are different.
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Old 10-16-2008, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the beast View Post
There are over ONE MILLION non-violent drug offenders in jail/prison in the US. Think about that. One million citizens are criminals who are caged 24 hours per day because of their usage and/or distribution of drugs.

Why not lock up obese people, smokers, and alcoholics? After all, they're doing harm to themselves just like drug users. Also, better lock up every Bacardi, DuMaurier, and McDonald's employee since they are supplying these people with these dangerous substances.
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Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59 View Post
The league is rediculous, Goodell is horrible. The whole incident was blown out of proportion.
So there was never a violation of the leagues conduct policy?

GOODELL DOESN'T NEED A CRIMINAL CONVICTION!!!!!

ALL THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IS FOR A PLAYER TO VIOLATE THE LEAGUES CONDUCT POLICY. THE ONUS OF TRUTH IS ON THE DEFENSE (THE PLAYER) IF THEY CAN'T DEFEND THEIR ACTIONS THEY GET SUSPENDED.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE AMERICAN LEGAL SYSTEM.

ACCEPT IT!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-16-2008, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BlindSite View Post
I don't recall Johnny Walker or Ronald McDonald hitting a few kids with stray bullets when they were getting pay back on Jack Daniels or The colonel for taking their corner...

What matters, whether or not you agree with the law, is that society as a whole has deemed that it is wrong to pit two animals against each other for the purpose of seeing them maim and hill each other. Society has deemed the practice barbaric, inhumane and therefore illegal.

Michael Vick chose to knowing break that law and in doing so made a conscious decision to go outside of societies law. Regardless of whether he was smokin' bud or raping women, you break laws, you face consequences.

It doesn't matter whether its traditional for you to do something, or if its culturally acceptable.

Don't try and liken narcotics to fast food or alcohol either, its plain stupid and you'll get embarrassed.

Don't like it move to another country where the laws are different.
Ronald McDonald and Jack Daniel don't have to protect their turf because it's they right to sell their products, which society has a high demand for. Take away the illegality of narcotics and you take away most of the black market for it. Which leads to fewer kids getting killed by stray bullets. If anything, drug wars do nothing but provide an argument against prohibition of certain narcotics. Remember the Italian mafia and the killing they made during the prohibition of alcohol? Yeah, the same thing's happening today, except it's with narcotics instead of alcohol. Anytime there is a product that is illegal, yet still retains a high public demand, will always command a large black market. And with black markets comes more crime and violence.

Also, how is it plain stupid to compare narcotics to alcohol? Alcohol is a liquid narcotic, for all intents and purposes. Even fast food is more comparable than you'd think. Fast food companies create products that they know are both harmful and addictive. People consume their product because they want to. And the government lets them, so you can't really say it's a public health issue.
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Old 10-16-2008, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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i think u can type that without the large font, does that represent that ur yelling or somtehing calm down
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Old 10-16-2008, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yourfavestoner View Post
1. Ronald McDonald and Jack Daniel don't have to protect their turf because it's they right to sell their products, which society has a high demand for. 2. Take away the illegality of narcotics and you take away most of the black market for it. Which leads to fewer kids getting killed by stray bullets. 3. If anything, drug wars do nothing but provide an argument against prohibition of certain narcotics. Remember the Italian mafia and the killing they made during the prohibition of alcohol? Yeah, the same thing's happening today, except it's with narcotics instead of alcohol. Anytime there is a product that is illegal, yet still retains a high public demand, will always command a large black market. And with black markets comes more crime and violence.
Ok, I'll play.

1. You just tried to justify the death and injury of innocent bystanders in gang violence because men are choosing to sell an illegal product...

2. While you take away the black market you increase the strain on your already over-strained health care system because 1. Drugs aren't taxed by the government and 2. All drugs, weed, cocaine, ecstasy,ice, whatever have health implications.

3. Prohibition was making alcohol illegal when he was legal. That would be like tomorrow making chewing gum illegal because of the litter. Sure the market for it develops and those that rise to fill it get rich, but it doesn't make someone a business man. They're still a peddler. While I will agree, that some narcotics should probably be legalised and properly explored. The main causes of addiction, Ice, Heroin, Cocaine, crack coacaine, etc, are not safe to use due to their side affects and therefore are far outside of society. There is a huge difference in the impacts of booze to the aforemtntioned narcotics and they are the drugs responsible for the most crime and violence in gang areas...

Quote:
Originally Posted by yourfavestoner View Post
Also, how is it plain stupid to compare narcotics to alcohol? Alcohol is a liquid narcotic, for all intents and purposes. Even fast food is more comparable than you'd think. Fast food companies create products that they know are both harmful and addictive. People consume their product because they want to. And the government lets them, so you can't really say it's a public health issue.
1. Alcohol can be quality controled, it can be strictly inspected so that people can use it safely or responsibly. With the exception of high grade ecstasy general coming from holand, most ecstasy in the american, australian and asian markets is locally made and therefore subject to differing quality. Making this drug legal would be disasterous to the health system. The same can be said about just about every drug except Marijuana.

2. Due to the fact that you can control the grade and regulate who its sold to you can prevent the vast majority of issues with alcohol.

3. Due to the high rate of tax on alcohol it becomes a non-issue with what it causes. A recent study done in Australia and Britain found that the revenue from the taxation on alcohol sales was enough money for the respective governments to pay for the salaries of the police, the ambulance service, the doctors and any issue health or otherwise alcohol related incidents cost the state every year.

In other words, Alcohol doesn't worsen society.

5. Fast food is reallistically a choice. The companies do not make food addictive, that's a fallacy created by the liberal media. The addiction isn't to the food, but to the ease with which said food can be obtained. The difference between fast food and dope is that no one dies from fast food. They die from a lack of exercise.

Finally, I agree that marijuana should be decriminalised, he'll I've written a 4,000 word essay on it for my law classes detailing its medicinal benefits as well as scientific research conducted into it.

The issue though is that this is where the safe illegal narcotics ends. All else have harmful side affects and should remain illegal.
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Old 10-16-2008, 06:49 PM    (permalink
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I am just going to end the discussion now because it's all philosophical differences, and none of the strong minded individuals involved will change their views. (further discussion WILL lead to infractions). Any continuation WILL lead to political talk.
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Old 10-16-2008, 07:00 PM    (permalink
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thats whats horrible with Discussions. People dont try to change their view. They think ITS THEIR OPINION, and they have a right to THEIR OPINION. If someone critizes them they think its a critique on THEIR OPINION and therefor on themselves. I hate to discuss with people who dont try to change their opinion.
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Old 10-16-2008, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindSite
1. You just tried to justify the death and injury of innocent bystanders in gang violence because men are choosing to sell an illegal product...
Huh? The whole point of legalizing drugs is to eliminate this sort of thing. How many people die from gang violence associated with alcohol or tobacco? Barely any, because they are legal and thus controlled by large corporations. If drugs were legalized tommorow, you take the power away from gangs. This leads to safer drugs (they would be regulated unlike drugs are today where you have no clue what is in them) and less violence (it's legal so nobody is going to buy drugs off some guy on a street corner when you can walk into 7-11 and buy it legally for cheaper).

Remember when alcohol was illegal? Al Capone? Look at what happened when it was legalized. Bye bye crime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindSite
2. While you take away the black market you increase the strain on your already over-strained health care system because 1. Drugs aren't taxed by the government and 2. All drugs, weed, cocaine, ecstasy,ice, whatever have health implications.
Taxing drugs is another issue but if you legalize drugs you can easily tax them, just like tobacco. More money in your pocket instead of all that money going tax-free into some gangster's pocket.

Strain the health care system? How many people who are addicted to drugs are effected by the legality of them? Do you think a heroine addict cares AT ALL that they'll go to jail for using the drug? Of course not, in the same way that they don't care that the drug is killing them. Making something illegal does not mean usage will drop.

Also, Big Macs are absolutely terrible for you. So is drinking soda. I would argue that drinking 2 litres of soda a day like some people do is far worse than puffing a joint or whatever else. Should we lock people up for making poor health decisions? No, of course not, we should educate them and hope they make better decisions. You can't enforce health on people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindSite
3. Prohibition was making alcohol illegal when he was legal. That would be like tomorrow making chewing gum illegal because of the litter. Sure the market for it develops and those that rise to fill it get rich, but it doesn't make someone a business man. They're still a peddler. While I will agree, that some narcotics should probably be legalised and properly explored. The main causes of addiction, Ice, Heroin, Cocaine, crack coacaine, etc, are not safe to use due to their side affects and therefore are far outside of society. There is a huge difference in the impacts of booze to the aforemtntioned narcotics and they are the drugs responsible for the most crime and violence in gang areas...
This paragraph makes little to no sense. Drugs have not been illegal forever. If you actually researched the topic, you would realize that most drugs were outlawed as a way of attacking minorities, particularly Blacks and Mexicans. I suggest you watch the History Channel special called "Hooked - Illegal Drugs and How They Got That Way" for a history of drug law in America.

Do you not understand why drugs cause all of the problems with crime, violence, and gangs? It's the very fact that they're illegal! Legalize them and there's no black market and thus no more drug-related violence!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindSite
1. Alcohol can be quality controled, it can be strictly inspected so that people can use it safely or responsibly. With the exception of high grade ecstasy general coming from holand, most ecstasy in the american, australian and asian markets is locally made and therefore subject to differing quality. Making this drug legal would be disasterous to the health system. The same can be said about just about every drug except Marijuana.
Why can't drugs be quality controlled? Oh wait, they can! Ever take a prescription drug? What separates them from legal drugs? Nothing, except for arbitrary decisions made decades ago. Legalize drugs and Pfizer will be producing marijuana, cocaine, and whatever else. They'll be manufactured and sold in a safe manner, and only to people of age. I don't think you're getting the fact that legalizing drugs means taking them off the street corners and into reputable places like pharmacies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindSite
2. Due to the fact that you can control the grade and regulate who its sold to you can prevent the vast majority of issues with alcohol.
See above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindSite
3. Due to the high rate of tax on alcohol it becomes a non-issue with what it causes. A recent study done in Australia and Britain found that the revenue from the taxation on alcohol sales was enough money for the respective governments to pay for the salaries of the police, the ambulance service, the doctors and any issue health or otherwise alcohol related incidents cost the state every year.

In other words, Alcohol doesn't worsen society.
See above. Tax drugs. Simple as that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindSite
5. Fast food is reallistically a choice. The companies do not make food addictive, that's a fallacy created by the liberal media. The addiction isn't to the food, but to the ease with which said food can be obtained. The difference between fast food and dope is that no one dies from fast food. They die from a lack of exercise.
Nobody dies from fast food? Diabetes is supposedly going to be a huge killer for the Boomerang generation. You don't think that's caused by fast food? Diabetes has nothing to do with exercise and everything to do with diet.

Also, many drugs are not physically addictive. Also, how can smoking be legal (addictive and harmful) but other drugs not? It's hypocrisy.

Just because something is not physically addictive doesn't mean it isn't habit-forming. Playing World of Warcraft isn't physically addictive but I bet you'll find many people who are more dependent on that game than smokers are on tobacco.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindSite
Finally, I agree that marijuana should be decriminalised, he'll I've written a 4,000 word essay on it for my law classes detailing its medicinal benefits as well as scientific research conducted into it.

The issue though is that this is where the safe illegal narcotics ends. All else have harmful side affects and should remain illegal.
Thank you sir.
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Old 10-16-2008, 11:34 PM    (permalink
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I'm leaving it at what Bruce said.

I agree to disagree and I'll leave this thread in saying Pacman is getting what he deserved
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:37 AM    (permalink
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I'm leaving it at what Bruce said.

I agree to disagree and I'll leave this thread in saying Pacman is getting what he deserved
Ditto, about Pacman as well. The actions he has made pretty much signify that he's an idiot. There's no doubt about that. Do I think he's a bad person necessarily? Nah. Like most people, he's just misunderstood.

You presented your arguments very well, though, and in a very educated and well thought out manner (which is more than most of this board can say).

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Old 10-17-2008, 11:09 PM    (permalink
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The government could control the quality of drugs that they legally allow to be sold in stores. Drug Dealers and gangs could try to still sell illegal drugs, but people will be much more likely to buy from stores knowing what their getting and likely much better price. The same is true about alcohol. The mafia that sold alcohol in prohibition would have tried to continue after but they wouldn't be able to compete with the legal alcohol sales.

That wouldn't be true about Weed, as people would grow a ton in their homes and sold from farms, but that won't poss nearly the concerns as with drugs made in labs.

BTW, the Caps are really annoying and I didn't read any of it.
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