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Old 02-15-2007, 01:10 PM    (permalink
San Diego Chicken
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Originally Posted by njx9
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Originally Posted by myinnerself
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Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan
Rivers cant make the big plays. he is the king of throwing to Tomlinson at 2 yards, then Tomlinson busting it out for a huge run. Rivers would have had a QB rating below 40 in the playoff game if not for Tomlinson making that huge run off a nothing pass.....
If you would have watched the Chargers this year you woud know he led us back 5 times and in two consecutive games brought us back when we were down by 17 or more. He also had the best 4th quarter QB rating in the NFL all year, something like 116. So what are you talking about? Really?

edit: Also, he had a BUNCH of long pass plays to both Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd. He can make the big play.
counting the denver game is misleading and very nearly a compelte misrepresentaiton of the stats. larry coyer had more to do with that win than rivers. jake plummer had more to do with that win than rivers.

I think you might be the one misleading people. Larry Coyer more responsible for that game than Philip Rivers? That's definitely a matter of perspective, wouldn't you say?
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Old 02-15-2007, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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I would have to go with Philip Rivers, followed by Big Ben.
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Old 02-15-2007, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
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Originally Posted by njx9
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Originally Posted by myinnerself
Quote:
Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan
Rivers cant make the big plays. he is the king of throwing to Tomlinson at 2 yards, then Tomlinson busting it out for a huge run. Rivers would have had a QB rating below 40 in the playoff game if not for Tomlinson making that huge run off a nothing pass.....
If you would have watched the Chargers this year you woud know he led us back 5 times and in two consecutive games brought us back when we were down by 17 or more. He also had the best 4th quarter QB rating in the NFL all year, something like 116. So what are you talking about? Really?

edit: Also, he had a BUNCH of long pass plays to both Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd. He can make the big play.
counting the denver game is misleading and very nearly a compelte misrepresentaiton of the stats. larry coyer had more to do with that win than rivers. jake plummer had more to do with that win than rivers.

I think you might be the one misleading people. Larry Coyer more responsible for that game than Philip Rivers? That's definitely a matter of perspective, wouldn't you say?
sorry, yes, we should all give philip rivers credit for his uncanny ability to stand up to no pass rush and pick apart a 9 deep prevent defense while LT ran wild against linebackers who were too busy retreating to cover the run. and it wasn't the san diego defense or jake plummer who cost denver the win, it was philip rivers, forcing plummer to throw yet another errant pass.

sorry, wouldn't want to take away credit for making plays the average high school quarterback should make.
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Old 02-15-2007, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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Phillip Rivers.
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Old 02-15-2007, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
Quote:
Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
Quote:
Originally Posted by myinnerself
Quote:
Originally Posted by GiantRutgersFan
Rivers cant make the big plays. he is the king of throwing to Tomlinson at 2 yards, then Tomlinson busting it out for a huge run. Rivers would have had a QB rating below 40 in the playoff game if not for Tomlinson making that huge run off a nothing pass.....
If you would have watched the Chargers this year you woud know he led us back 5 times and in two consecutive games brought us back when we were down by 17 or more. He also had the best 4th quarter QB rating in the NFL all year, something like 116. So what are you talking about? Really?

edit: Also, he had a BUNCH of long pass plays to both Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd. He can make the big play.
counting the denver game is misleading and very nearly a compelte misrepresentaiton of the stats. larry coyer had more to do with that win than rivers. jake plummer had more to do with that win than rivers.

I think you might be the one misleading people. Larry Coyer more responsible for that game than Philip Rivers? That's definitely a matter of perspective, wouldn't you say?
sorry, yes, we should all give philip rivers credit for his uncanny ability to stand up to no pass rush and pick apart a 9 deep prevent defense while LT ran wild against linebackers who were too busy retreating to cover the run. and it wasn't the san diego defense or jake plummer who cost denver the win, it was philip rivers, forcing plummer to throw yet another errant pass.

sorry, wouldn't want to take away credit for making plays the average high school quarterback should make.

We're still talking about the same game here right? Because Denver dialed up lots of blitz packages in that game. John Clayton even wrote an insider article about it. The wheel route to Tomlinson that went for a touchdown was an all out cover 0 blitz.
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Old 02-15-2007, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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We're still talking about the same game here right? Because Denver dialed up lots of blitz packages in that game. John Clayton even wrote an insider article about it. The wheel route to Tomlinson that went for a touchdown was an all out cover 0 blitz.
oh, right, we blitzed early, when we built up the lead. just like we did in every other game. then, in the second half, we essentially went to a no-blitz, prevent defense. just like in every other game in the second half of the season. even assuming you're correct about the wheel route, i have serious doubts that rivers even felt pressure, but that's neither here nor there. again, san diego moved the ball at will on denver because of poor coaching and lack of talent on denver's side. not because philip rivers put them on his back as the OP intimated.
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Old 02-15-2007, 04:05 PM    (permalink
 
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What if his name was Eli Weathersby?
Probably would have gone just as high.
No he woulden't have.
I think he would have. Eli had it all as a prospect. Scott said he was the 2nd best QB prospect he had ever seen. Teams aren't going to draft a guy a lot higher just because his brother is great, he had all the tools to be worthy of the #1 pick.
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Old 02-15-2007, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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Philip Rivers
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Old 02-15-2007, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9
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Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
We're still talking about the same game here right? Because Denver dialed up lots of blitz packages in that game. John Clayton even wrote an insider article about it. The wheel route to Tomlinson that went for a touchdown was an all out cover 0 blitz.
oh, right, we blitzed early, when we built up the lead. just like we did in every other game. then, in the second half, we essentially went to a no-blitz, prevent defense. just like in every other game in the second half of the season. even assuming you're correct about the wheel route, i have serious doubts that rivers even felt pressure, but that's neither here nor there. again, san diego moved the ball at will on denver because of poor coaching and lack of talent on denver's side. not because philip rivers put them on his back as the OP intimated.
njx9, while i highly value your opinion, i would be much more inclined to have a conversation on the matter if all your posts weren't so defensive and caustic. you might get intelligent responses back if you didn't make it sound like sour grapes of some sort. i'm not sure what your beef is with philip, but there's no need to be so cynical with every remark.

Now, I know I'm a completely biased homer, but I thought Philip did an excellent job keeping his composure after that pick 6 and down by 17 midway through the 3rd quarter in one of the most difficult stadiums to play in in the NFL. You can say what you want, but he was 10/12 for 149 yards, 2 td, and 1 int in the 2nd half of that game. That's pretty damn clutch if you ask me.
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Old 02-15-2007, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncst8fan83
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Originally Posted by njx9
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Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken
We're still talking about the same game here right? Because Denver dialed up lots of blitz packages in that game. John Clayton even wrote an insider article about it. The wheel route to Tomlinson that went for a touchdown was an all out cover 0 blitz.
oh, right, we blitzed early, when we built up the lead. just like we did in every other game. then, in the second half, we essentially went to a no-blitz, prevent defense. just like in every other game in the second half of the season. even assuming you're correct about the wheel route, i have serious doubts that rivers even felt pressure, but that's neither here nor there. again, san diego moved the ball at will on denver because of poor coaching and lack of talent on denver's side. not because philip rivers put them on his back as the OP intimated.
njx9, while i highly value your opinion, i would be much more inclined to have a conversation on the matter if all your posts weren't so defensive and caustic. your might get intelligent responses back if you didn't make it sound like sour grapes of some sort. i'm not sure what your beef is with philip, but there's no need to be so cynical with every remark.

Now, I know I'm a completely biased homer, but I thought Philip did an excellent job keeping his composure after that pick 6 and down by 17 midway through the 3rd quarter in one of the most difficult stadiums to play in in the NFL. You can say what you want, but he was 10/12 for 149 yards, 2 td, and 1 int in the 2nd half of that game. That's pretty damn clutch if you ask me.
part of the problem here likely is because you don't know i'm a denver fan, and that the mere thought of that collapse... well, induces violent rage.

i don't hate philip at all, he was by FAR my favorite qb in that draft and, before the senior bowl, someone i really wanted denver to pick up. i hate him now for divisional reasons, but those have little to do with his ability to play the position.

regardless. that particular game did not make me think more highly of him as a qb. like i said, he did what most high school qbs would be expected to do in similar circumstances. that's not a knock on his ability.
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Old 02-15-2007, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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This debate needs to be put off, until this time next year. At that point, Eli Manning will have had 3-1/2 years as a starter, Philip Rivers with 2, Ben Roethlisberger with 4, JP Losman with 3-1/2.
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Old 02-15-2007, 05:10 PM    (permalink
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I understand your position, I guess it just irks me when people rail on a specific player for no reason. That is in no way a slight on you, so don't think I'm saying that. Just a general observation of these forums. The fact of the matter is all 4 qb's are far from their prime and none are in a position to carry a team to victory by themselves. Did Philip play great the last quarter and a half of the Denver game? Absolutely. But they don't win if the players on the receiving end of those passes don't make the plays they're suppose to. The same reason you can't pin the playoff loss to the Pats on Philip. The receivers dropped an insane amount of EASY catches that "high school" wideouts and tightends should make. McCree could have ended the game with a knock down of that pass or just falling to the ground after the INT.

Who knows how well Eli would be doing right now if it weren't for having Coughlin as a coach and the inordinate amount of injuries the Giants have faced the past couple years. Next year he loses one of the top 5 RBs in the game right now. How will he adjust? Ben just needs to get healthy and JP needs to mature as a QB with his WRs. All 4 will be outstanding and is why knocking any four of them is completely ignorant at this point. None of them are colossal failures. None of them are Hall of Fame QBs. Yet. All four could go either way right now. This discussion shouldn't even take place for another 3 or 4 years anyway.
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Old 02-15-2007, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver
This debate needs to be put off, until this time next year. At that point, Eli Manning will have had 3-1/2 years as a starter, Philip Rivers with 2, Ben Roethlisberger with 4, JP Losman with 3-1/2.
why would we put this off till next year when next year, we can decide whether vince, cutler or leinart are busts or hall of famers?

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This discussion shouldn't even take place for another 3 or 4 years anyway.
see above, but substitute in whatever qbs are in their second or third year then.

and ncst8: absolutely agree.
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Old 02-15-2007, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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well if we compare the numbers from the last two seasons...

Phillip rivers (1 season for him of course)-3388 yards, 61%, 22 TD 9 INT
Ben Roethlisberger- 5898 yards, 60%, 35 TD 32 INT
Eli Manning- 7006 yards ,54%, 48 TD 35 INT
J.P. Losman- 4391 yards, 55%, 27 TD 22 INT

from those numbers Eli has had an easier time finding the endzone, but also threw the most picks. Now, if we exclude Eli, and compare Big Ben's numbers with the other two, Losman having one of the two seasons rotating with Kelly Holcomb, and Rivers, who had his first starting season. if Rivers were to have played two seasons his number might look something like 6000 passing yards, 40 TD and 20 INT and maybe 55-60%. but the point is, i don't think you can really make a strong case that any of these guys were any better than the other. Rivers and Losman haven't played enough. and i refuse to give the crown to Big Ben just because his team won a superbowl. he was 9-21 for 123 yards...and 2 picks in that game. But anyway, it's too hard to say who has turned out the best. the picture should be a lot clearer next year.
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Old 02-15-2007, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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Rivers.
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Old 02-15-2007, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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I used to partake in these discussions, but this discussion might be the most useless debate in the history of this board. We constantly have this discussion, it rambles on forever, and it leads to nowwhere. Everyone has their own predetermined favorite in this pile, and theres nothing you can say or do to change their mind. Its almost like politics.

Nowadays, I just grab some popcorn and enjoy the show. No use in wasting valuable font on a topic beaten to absolute death.
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Old 02-15-2007, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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This debate needs to be put off, until this time next year. At that point, Eli Manning will have had 3-1/2 years as a starter, Philip Rivers with 2, Ben Roethlisberger with 4, JP Losman with 3-1/2.
You really need to do starts as games, not as years, because Losman has only started 24 games in 4 years. Right now, he has only technically started 1 1/2 years at QB. If he were to stay healthy and start all 16 games next year, he will still only have started for 2 1/2 years.
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Old 02-15-2007, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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Big ben
Rivers/JP Losman
Manning

and in terms of progression as Quarterbacks translating throughout nect year JP losman will be number 2 at the end of next year
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Old 02-15-2007, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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Ben has proven he can win and that he is failable with this past bad season. He is the best so far, history is proving that also.
Eli? who knows what this guy is even trying to do. Has the ability, not sure if he has the smarts.
Rivers looks very good, but 1 season doesn't make a great qb. Give him 2 more years starting and then we'll see how good.
Losman, well not much needs to be said here. Looks o.k. at times , but hasn't done anything to merit a big bright future.
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