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Old 12-29-2008, 11:57 AM    (permalink
AlexDown
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Originally Posted by gsorace View Post
The only people who don't think he should have been fired are people who haven't watched many Jets games
And their only reasoning : Come on...... give him the benefit of the doubt he will do better next season.

He has had 2 winning seasons!
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Old 12-29-2008, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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Well that's fine. If you guys think he should have been fired so be it. You obviously have a lot more invested in the Jets than someone like me does.

I still think they have a losing season next year though, whether it's part of a rebuilding process or not we'll see.
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Old 12-29-2008, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by The Great Jonathan Vilma View Post
Like i said, i don't think the '2 winning seasons out of 3' is anything to be gloating about.
When you're the Jets its certainly above the norm.
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Old 12-29-2008, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by AlexDown View Post
And their only reasoning : Come on...... give him the benefit of the doubt he will do better next season.

He has had 2 winning seasons!
He doesn't deserve a winning season this year after their start. They were beat by horrible teams down the stretch, and should have lost to Buffalo except for a gift. All in a season when the AFC East played the easiest schedule in the league and Tom Brady played 1 quarter all season. If you couldn't win the division this year after starting 8-3 or whatever it was, then I don't think you are going to next year under the same coach.

But in a way you also can't absolutely throw him under the bus because I don't think he ever wanted Favre, and Favre was trash down the stretch.
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Old 12-29-2008, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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It could also relate to alot of the unseen things (i.e. his relationship with the front office, the players etc.)
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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what is it with the patriots coordinators just sucking at being head coaches..?

weis, mangini, crennel.. i think this kinda of hurts mcdaniels a bit if he ever wants to be a head coach.
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bigburt63 View Post
It could also relate to alot of the unseen things (i.e. his relationship with the front office, the players etc.)
Mangini certainly wasn't popular with the players, and it was probably a significant reason he won't be returning next year.
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Basileus777 View Post
Mangini certainly wasn't popular with the players, and it was probably a significant reason he won't be returning next year.
I don't know about that. I don't think he was unpopular with the players. He just wasn't a players coach. But players coaches most often don't work in this league. I think it was ownership he rubbed the wrong way mostly.
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:13 PM    (permalink
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Well that's fine. If you guys think he should have been fired so be it. You obviously have a lot more invested in the Jets than someone like me does.

I still think they have a losing season next year though, whether it's part of a rebuilding process or not we'll see.
I believe that we will be a below .500 team next season, but i don't know how much will have to do with the coaching change. If the coach can establish a run first, pass second approach, i think the new QB (assumed to be inexperienced) will be in a good position. There are weapons in the passing game, and the run game should be good enough to be the focus. However, there are always the growing pains and i don't expect a huge season, however, i don't believe Mangini would be the difference between the two outcomes.....


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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
When you're the Jets its certainly above the norm.
The norm doesn't really matter though.....and this certainly feels like a losing season, regardless of what the record says. I'd take a season with more losses than the style in which this team finished....
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You can't be a good corner if no one throws your way. Thats my way of seeing it.
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:13 PM    (permalink
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I also don't know why the GM is getting a free pass.
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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I don't know about that. I don't think he was unpopular with the players. He just wasn't a players coach. But players coaches most often don't work in this league. I think it was ownership he rubbed the wrong way mostly.
he wasn't a players coach, and he wasn't a motivator, and he wasn't a 'game-planner', etc. etc. he was there doing his thing, but he wasn't anything great in any area. I don't believe the players respected him or would be motivated to follow him....and you need that.
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You can't be a good corner if no one throws your way. Thats my way of seeing it.
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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I also don't know why the GM is getting a free pass.
I'm not so down on the GM, i don't think the product he put on the field was all that bad.....although i was never huge with the Favre deal. Everyone knew he was overhyped. I was excited with the way things went early on, and I started to come around, even knowing it was a one-year thing, present vs future.

In the end, that was the one deal i think was crap. Well, that and Vernon Gholston being pure trash. I'm under the impression that many teams would have drafted him in that spot though, or right there after.....

Overall, i'm not hard on the GM because as a whole i don't think he's been poor enough to be fired.
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You can't be a good corner if no one throws your way. Thats my way of seeing it.
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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I'm not so down on the GM, i don't think the product he put on the field was all that bad.....although i was never huge with the Favre deal. Everyone knew he was overhyped. I was excited with the way things went early on, and I started to come around, even knowing it was a one-year thing, present vs future.

In the end, that was the one deal i think was crap. Well, that and Vernon Gholston being pure trash. I'm under the impression that many teams would have drafted him in that spot though, or right there after.....

Overall, i'm not hard on the GM because as a whole i don't think he's been poor enough to be fired.
I think the Favre trade was a mistake, but the real reason Tanenbaum should be raked over the coals is how he handled Pennington. By any standards Pennington is at least an above-average qb in this league. The Jets should have gotten something, anything for him. Instead they cut him outright and let him go to a division rival, which led to Miami winning the division. How stupid and arrogant can you be?
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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I'm not so down on the GM, i don't think the product he put on the field was all that bad.....although i was never huge with the Favre deal. Everyone knew he was overhyped. I was excited with the way things went early on, and I started to come around, even knowing it was a one-year thing, present vs future.

In the end, that was the one deal i think was crap. Well, that and Vernon Gholston being pure trash. I'm under the impression that many teams would have drafted him in that spot though, or right there after.....

Overall, i'm not hard on the GM because as a whole i don't think he's been poor enough to be fired.
I don't like the Woody deal. He is playing out of position. Ferguson hasn't exactly shined either.
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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I was very surprised to see this to be honest. Bad move by the Jets.
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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Funny how quick people jump on th ePennington bandwagon. The simple fact is, he was poor last year with the Jets. I think i recall 4 INT TDs where he just simply didn't have the arm strength to run an 'Out' pattern with a WR. He made poor decision (uncharacteristic for him) and was not a QB that was going to take the team further than probably the first round, if that. The OC for the Dolphins was good for him, and he played MUCH better this season. Change of scenery did him well. I believe the Jets tried to move him, but no one wanted to give anything to an injury prone, weak armed, above average aged QB who probably isn't going to lead you to a Superbowl.....I don't think it was 'Lets just cut him, forget trying to get anything'.

Woody wasn't terrible this season, although i agree the contract is inflated. D'Brick hasn't been great, but once again, at draft time you can only do so much. He was a solid pick at that point and was viewed as a GREAT pass blocker, albeit as only an average run blocker.

I agree there have been bad moves, but i don't think at this point it is his turn. I'd say he has another year forsure, but if he does go in one year, a new GM usually wants a new coach that fits his style, so what happens then? Will be interesting to see.
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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Look at how Pennington struggled throwing the ball deep yesterday, underthrown balls the receivers had to adjust to that luckily weren't intercepted. Same old, same old.

Playing in Miami is better for Penny, and he lucked out that the road game in Buffalo was in Toronto this year. Also the road game in New England was very early, and that was the Wildcat game.

The Dolphins are coming back to Earth next year, they won't repeat, I'll say it now. But good for them for creating a real feel good season this year.
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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I also don't know why the GM is getting a free pass.
If he's the one who keeps promising to give players more money after the season (Pete Kendall, Lav Coles, Chris Baker), then he's an idiot.

I read somewhere Coles already wants a new deal before next season. Give me a freaking break.
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Old 12-29-2008, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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i really think this was a knee jerk response. Mangini clearly has flaws as a coach, but unless you know you can get an upgrade over him, which I don't think is necessarily an easy thing to do, this wasn't the right move.

this situation was very salvageable. there was no need to blow things up which im guessing will happen now with a new coaching staff.

when you turn the ball over the way they did, i don't care how good of a team you are, you won't win in this league period.

and how is it Mangini's fault that Favre did those bone headed INTs? its not.
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Old 12-29-2008, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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i really think this was a knee jerk response. Mangini clearly has flaws as a coach, but unless you know you can get an upgrade over him, which I don't think is necessarily an easy thing to do, this wasn't the right move.

this situation was very salvageable. there was no need to blow things up which im guessing will happen now with a new coaching staff.

when you turn the ball over the way they did, i don't care how good of a team you are, you won't win in this league period.

and how is it Mangini's fault that Favre did those bone headed INTs? its not.
It's his fault that he went away from the game plan of pounding the football on the ground which was why they were so successful and then started to let Favre air it out again after the Tennessee game. That's not the offensive coordinators fault, not completely. The head coach dictates the game plan. If Mike Singletary can get Mike Martz to run the ball then I'm certain Eric Mangini can get Brian Schottenheimer to run the ball more.

But I completely agree with the point that there really isn't anyone else better out there I think they can get to coach the team. If they can get Bill Cowher then yes, fire Mangini, but I doubt they can so they really should have let him have another year. Of course it's easy to understand why they fired him too at the same time.
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Old 12-29-2008, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Well a big reason they won the New England game and then the Tennessee game was Favre passing the ball around, often times with the Jets in spread formations. Dustin Keller was big on third downs around that time, and Jones and Washington would help finish near the goal-line.
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Old 12-29-2008, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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And their only reasoning : Come on...... give him the benefit of the doubt he will do better next season.

He has had 2 winning seasons!
Under that logic, the Jets should have never let Herm Edwards go.
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Old 12-29-2008, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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It's his fault that he went away from the game plan of pounding the football on the ground which was why they were so successful and then started to let Favre air it out again after the Tennessee game. That's not the offensive coordinators fault, not completely. The head coach dictates the game plan. If Mike Singletary can get Mike Martz to run the ball then I'm certain Eric Mangini can get Brian Schottenheimer to run the ball more.

But I completely agree with the point that there really isn't anyone else better out there I think they can get to coach the team. If they can get Bill Cowher then yes, fire Mangini, but I doubt they can so they really should have let him have another year. Of course it's easy to understand why they fired him too at the same time.
yeah i agree that he's also at fault for the run game not being utilized. but his mistakes are so correctable. the issues raised just don't warrant the guy getting fired imo. i just don't think it was necessary.

we overreact way too much as fans. this was a fan move by the organization. good organizations don't make a move like this. change isnt always a good thing. they could have fired Schotty and kept on trucking. no need to blow things up.
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Old 12-29-2008, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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i really think this was a knee jerk response. Mangini clearly has flaws as a coach, but unless you know you can get an upgrade over him, which I don't think is necessarily an easy thing to do, this wasn't the right move.

this situation was very salvageable. there was no need to blow things up which im guessing will happen now with a new coaching staff.

when you turn the ball over the way they did, i don't care how good of a team you are, you won't win in this league period.

and how is it Mangini's fault that Favre did those bone headed INTs? its not.
It isn't his fault that Favre is an idiot, agreed. I'm not speaking soley on the fact that they lost to Miami, that doesn't matter, they are the 'best' team they lost to in a while. It is the manner in which they lost and the gameplans that were brough to those games.

KC - 14 Jones runs (54), 3 Washington runs (67) (40 Favre passes - 2 TD, 3 INT)
Oakland - 24 Jones (159), 3 Washington (19) (38 Favre passes 0/2)
Denver - 16 Jones runs (138 yards), 2 Washington (4) (43 Favre passes - 0 TD 1 INT)
SF - 10 Jones (56), 1 Washington (1) (31 Favre passes, 0/1)
Buffalo - 20 Jones (78), 1 Washington (47) (Favre 30 passes 1/2)
Seattle - 17 Jones (67), 3 Washington (14) (31 Favre 0/2)
Miami - 10 Jones (23), 10 Washington (60) (Favre 40 passes 1/3)

Here are just a few games, all of which the Jets lost (except against KC which we should have lost). In all those games Favre obviously had very poor TD/Int ratios. The key for me though, is that the pass doesn't seem to be setup by the run. Stats can obviously lie, but i watched every Jets game this season except against the Bengals, and these games were annoying.Many of these rushing attempts are far too low, and the games were not out of reach, they are simply Mangini/OC ignoring the run and setting a tone for the game. Some yards per carry are low, but many are low carries where one good run can get you going. The Jets on average were a solid running team that could take solid chunks, and get some big plays. In these games, the run game shoudl have been utilized more as a means to win the game. They were not, and as a result we lost (Oakland maybe an exception). If you know Favre is prone to turnovers, monitor the game, use your oline and good mix of RBs, and let him go at the secondary afterwards. Obviously this doesn't always work, but the coaches didn't help the cause.
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Old 12-29-2008, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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yeah i agree that he's also at fault for the run game not being utilized. but his mistakes are so correctable. the issues raised just don't warrant the guy getting fired imo. i just don't think it was necessary.

we overreact way too much as fans. this was a fan move by the organization. good organizations don't make a move like this. change isnt always a good thing. they could have fired Schotty and kept on trucking. no need to blow things up.
You may be correct, but over the last 2 years i really don't think he's been that good. He's done nothing to warrant he continue on. Bad 2nd year, realistically he did nothing big this year, he forced things (3-4 transition, pass game), had a meltdown at seasons end, didn't prepare the team for games on the coast, and the only real thing people can say is that he had a winning racord this year.....who gives a crap, what did it do for us? He blew it in a big way, and a big part of that falls on him. You should not lose those games, and baring a few lucky plays along the way, you couldn't even say he was 9-7 because the team could have been considerably below that.

I agree he COULD have stayed, and that this may not be the best thing to do, but as someone who watches and follows the Jets all year and every game, i've grown tired of his act. I'm usually pretty calm towards letting things grow together and things of that nature, but i can honestly say, his act got old, and i don't care for what he brings.
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