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Old 01-04-2009, 08:00 AM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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Originally Posted by OzTitan View Post
lol, watch it or I'll "zomg" yourself the next time Forte's name is mentioned too far away from the words "best eva" and you go on your own tirade ;)

Seriously though, CJ nothing without White? I've heard some good ones this season, but wow.
ive never ever said that. and bears fans arent in every thread defending him. seriously CJ got a ************* MVP vote. He gets way to much credit
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Old 01-04-2009, 08:11 AM    (permalink
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If Bears fans aren't in every thread defending him, which I'd tend to disagree with - at least for some time there - maybe it's because noone has said something as stupid as an overweight glorified backup is what makes him tick. Some things you just can't let go without asking what the hell the thought process was when posting. He was clearly the best player on the Titans offense ffs, you'd make any Titans fan laugh hysterically suggesting White enabled CJ to be good. As I said, I'm not even sure how it's *meant* to make sense - the "grinder" theory is shakey at best with an actual powerback, let alone LenDale White who is more of a scat back. The only grinding he does is .

The MVP vote thing is not worth addressing. It means nothing. I didn't do it, so I couldn't care less about it. It's not my vote to defend. It's a reflection of one voter, not some overriding presence of CJ getting "way too much credit".
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Old 01-04-2009, 08:34 AM    (permalink
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I can see why Ryan won it, but I've never boughten into his hype all season long. Nothing overly impressive.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

Omgz, awful.
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Old 01-04-2009, 08:39 AM    (permalink
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lol, watch it or I'll "zomg" yourself the next time Forte's name is mentioned too far away from the words "best eva" and you go on your own tirade ;)

Seriously though, CJ nothing without White? I've heard some good ones this season, but wow. I'm not even sure how that's meant to make any sense.
tbh I didn't expect anything more than this type of reaction. Thank you.
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Old 01-04-2009, 08:53 AM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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If Bears fans aren't in every thread defending him, which I'd tend to disagree with - at least for some time there - maybe it's because noone has said something as stupid as an overweight glorified backup is what makes him tick. Some things you just can't let go without asking what the hell the thought process was when posting. He was clearly the best player on the Titans offense ffs, you'd make any Titans fan laugh hysterically suggesting White enabled CJ to be good. As I said, I'm not even sure how it's *meant* to make sense - the "grinder" theory is shakey at best with an actual powerback, let alone LenDale White who is more of a scat back. The only grinding he does is .

The MVP vote thing is not worth addressing. It means nothing. I didn't do it, so I couldn't care less about it. It's not my vote to defend. It's a reflection of one voter, not some overriding presence of CJ getting "way too much credit".
he certainly was awesome against the bears and the ravens and the jets. wait...
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Old 01-04-2009, 09:34 AM    (permalink
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If Bears fans aren't in every thread defending him, which I'd tend to disagree with - at least for some time there - maybe it's because noone has said something as stupid as an overweight glorified backup is what makes him tick. Some things you just can't let go without asking what the hell the thought process was when posting. He was clearly the best player on the Titans offense ffs, you'd make any Titans fan laugh hysterically suggesting White enabled CJ to be good. As I said, I'm not even sure how it's *meant* to make sense - the "grinder" theory is shakey at best with an actual powerback, let alone LenDale White who is more of a scat back. The only grinding he does is .

The MVP vote thing is not worth addressing. It means nothing. I didn't do it, so I couldn't care less about it. It's not my vote to defend. It's a reflection of one voter, not some overriding presence of CJ getting "way too much credit".
by the way: last time I checked, CJ plays WR for the Lions.
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Old 01-04-2009, 09:34 AM    (permalink
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tbh I didn't expect anything more than this type of reaction. Thank you.
I think that post you quoted was referring to *** Ork Wang's post.

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he certainly was awesome against the bears and the ravens and the jets. wait...
So he had bad games against 3 top 10 defense against the rush while being the main threat to stop. He is terrible I agree. At least he wasn't held to 36 yards by the ferocious Lions. :x

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If you feel he is just "solid" right now, that is fine. Him being a "solid" and stable quarterback at his age and place in his NFL career is nothing short of amazing. I agree that Michael Turner deserves a big share of the playoff pie, but Matt Ryan played very well despite a crap offensive line/TE and a #2 WR. The defense is pretty horrible as well, yet they played wild card weekend.
Roddy White a #2 WR? Not this season he wasn't. That is an absurd statement if that is what you are implying.
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Old 01-04-2009, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Addict
by the way: last time I checked, CJ plays WR for the Lions.
Last time I checked, LT once played linebacker for the Giants and currently plays runningback for the Chargers. Two great players can share initials in harmony. :)
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Old 01-04-2009, 10:59 AM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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I think that post you quoted was referring to *** Ork Wang's post.



So he had bad games against 3 top 10 defense against the rush while being the main threat to stop. He is terrible I agree. At least he wasn't held to 36 yards by the ferocious Lions. :x



Roddy White a #2 WR? Not this season he wasn't. That is an absurd statement if that is what you are implying.
sorry, bears are not a top 10 defense. they suck bad
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Old 01-04-2009, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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*** Ork Wang - Why don't you make an argument for Forte instead of arguing against CJ's arguments? It's fine if you disagree, but you're not making opinions change on CJ until you present Forte as something better. Right now, the only thing you've contributed is sarcasm and the role of sidekick to the posters who actually are presenting an argument.

I mean, it's ok if you don't want to. You've obviously found your niche as the guy who comes in after a poster has contributed more than a sentence's worth of input to say something condescending or sarcastic, but it really is a shame if that's all that you're good for.

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because a back like Johnson would be worth jack without a back like white to do the grinding.
Of White's 200 carries this season, 145 came when the Titans were ahead, 41 came when the Titans were behind, and 14 came when they were tied. Of CJ's 251 carries, 134 came when the Titans were ahead, 58 came when the Titans were behind, and 59 came when they were tied.

LenDale received the most of his carries in the 4th QTR (66), and the fewest of his carries in the 1st QTR (37). Chris Johnson received the most of his carries in the 2nd QTR (69), and the fewest of his carries in the 4th QTR (52). LenDale had 81 1st Half carries, and 117 2nd Half carries. CJ had 135 1st Half carries, and 111 2nd Half carries.

You're absolutely right. LenDale was there to grind the ball...grind it in the 4th QTR and when the game wasn't on the line. This also disputes Shiver's theory that CJ got his stats on meaningless carries when the game was out of reach or the Titans had the lead - LenDale actually got these carries.
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Old 01-04-2009, 11:52 AM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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why should i? people know he is good. he is not a top RB, but he is top3 for the rookies were everyone is basically interchangable. My opinion is that CJ is not something better than Slaton or Forte. But they also arent better than CJ.
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Old 01-04-2009, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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You should because your one liners become tiresome, and represent your opinion as well as saying "PC +1."

If it's your opinion that all three RB's are equal, then what demonstrable facts justify this? Maybe two of them are equal, but I don't think all three are.
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Old 01-04-2009, 12:10 PM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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geez THE INTERNET IS SERIOUS BUISNESS!
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Old 01-04-2009, 12:24 PM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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You should because your one liners become tiresome, and represent your opinion as well as saying "PC +1."

If it's your opinion that all three RB's are equal, then what demonstrable facts justify this? Maybe two of them are equal, but I don't think all three are.
There is no prove:

Fact is that everyone is different. CJ is not that much of a guy u would pound up the middle all game. He is a homerun hitter with nice Speed and Homerun ability. Slaton is not a bulky RB at all, but he fits perfectly into the ZBS, nice cuts and vision, determined to fit for every yard, but not exactly a back that could suceed everywhere. Forte has great patience, great receiver and an incredible blocker. but he lacks a forte (pun not intended), he is good or great in a couple of categories, but he is not expectionelle in any aspect.

We have only seen them play 1 year. The stats are about the same, obviously the Titans are a better team than the Bears or the Texans. But u cant credit all of that to CJohnson. He was force for the offense, but the defense was far more important, and well u can see that the opposing defense were tired, i mean both ur back had so many carries. But that shouldnt be a knock on Tennespeed nor should it be something that should be credited to him.

U said Slaton had better stats than TSpeed because he played one more game. Id disagree with that. Slaton was not the feature back of the Texans and didnt start till like week 3 or 4 i believe. But again stats dont tell anything.
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Old 01-04-2009, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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Last time I checked, LT once played linebacker for the Giants and currently plays runningback for the Chargers. Two great players can share initials in harmony. :)
they didn't share the initials in their active careers, now did they? Lawrence Taylor retired in '93, and LaDainian Tomlinson wasn't even in college then, let alone the NFL (2001 onwards). Yeah, you can share that kind of nickname, but not when you're playing simultaniously. And again, please tell me you did think of this yourself...
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Old 01-04-2009, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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Here's an argument for Forte because you asked for it:
(not why he is better, but why he had a better season)

More Rushing Yards, More Receiving Yards, More Total Yards, More Touches, More Total TDs...all on a worse offense and worse overall team.

Johnson beat Forte in ypc, ypg, and rushing TDs. I know, he split carries, didn't play the last game, etc. Ifs and Buts. Forte beat Johnson in most every statistical category. Does that mean he's a better RB, not necessarily. Does it mean he had a better season, yes.

There's an argument since you were looking for one and I was bored.
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Old 01-04-2009, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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tbh I didn't expect anything more than this type of reaction. Thank you.
So, basically just trolling then without any clue what it is you're babbling about. Gotcha.
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Old 01-04-2009, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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Roddy White a #2 WR? Not this season he wasn't. That is an absurd statement if that is what you are implying.
"without....... and a #2 WR."

As in, without everything i mentioned, including a #2 WR. Not implying that Roddy White is a number two, but that Jenkins isn't very good. I think Roddy White is top 5-7 in the game right now.
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Old 01-04-2009, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang View Post
he certainly was awesome against the bears and the ravens and the jets. wait...
What the hell has this got to do with anything I said in my post you quoted???? It was about dispelling the head-scratching notion that CJ is nothing without White.....

But - the Bears completely sold out to stop the run against Tennessee, allowing Collins to have a career day almost. So the Titans rolled with that. You should know that. The Jets game, well they kinda abandonded the run early in that. As for the Ravens, they have a fairly good defense. They stop runningbacks - they're the best at doing that by far.

And it's not like Forte or Slaton didn't have bad games, so I'm not even sure what you point was meant to be if it was relevant to what I said, which it wasn't.
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Old 01-04-2009, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Addict
they didn't share the initials in their active careers, now did they? Lawrence Taylor retired in '93, and LaDainian Tomlinson wasn't even in college then, let alone the NFL (2001 onwards). Yeah, you can share that kind of nickname, but not when you're playing simultaniously. And again, please tell me you did think of this yourself...
I thought of it, but couldn't think of any other example. Either way, it's irrelevant. Neither Calvin Johnson nor Chris Johnson are known as CJ in the way that Tomlinson and Taylor are known as LT. So they can share this nickname because it's not as prominant - if a casual sports fan is watching TV and the sportscaster says, "CJ is one of the best, young players in the NFL," no one is going to immediately come to mind, let alone two players. If the sportscaster says, "LT is our main guest tonight," then you're wondering if it's Taylor or Tomlinson.

As of now, I've only seen someone call Calvin or Chris on a forum, and context can always be understood on a forum. When a thread comes up about the three rookie RB's and I use the term CJ, people will recognize that I'm talking about Chris Johnson and not Calvin Johnson. When a thread comes up about the best, young wide receivers in the NFL and you use the word CJ, no one is gonna think you're talking about Chris Johnson.

This is trivial at best. It's his freakin' initials. It's not like I'm calling him Megatron or something.

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Originally Posted by iowatreat54
Here's an argument for Forte because you asked for it:
(not why he is better, but why he had a better season)

More Rushing Yards, More Receiving Yards, More Total Yards, More Touches, More Total TDs...all on a worse offense and worse overall team.

Johnson beat Forte in ypc, ypg, and rushing TDs. I know, he split carries, didn't play the last game, etc. Ifs and Buts. Forte beat Johnson in most every statistical category. Does that mean he's a better RB, not necessarily. Does it mean he had a better season, yes.

There's an argument since you were looking for one and I was bored.
If this is going to be looked at empirically and dismiss CJ's lost game because his team was so good, then the notion of Forte's stats being more impressive because his team was bad should be dismissed as well.

As for who had the better season, there's no doubt that both players had excellent seasons - let alone rookie seasons. The biggest thing that stands out is that Forte has the quantity while CJ has the quality. Forte has the most yards, but CJ has the better averages. So it goes by whichever definition the holder has of success.

Theoretically, I think CJ had the better season, hands down. Forte would have had better averages had he ran behind the Titans OL, but CJ would have put up All-Pro numbers had he been given the ball 300+ times. If he gets the ball 65 more times at his average of 4.9 YPC, which puts him even with Forte in amount of carries, then CJ runs for 1,548 yards this season. If Matt Forte got the ball 251 times like CJ only got, then Forte doesn't even break 1,000-yds on the season.

In addition, CJ received more awards and recognition than Forte. He received a Pro Bowl bid, was t-2nd in ROTY votes, and even received a MVP vote. If that gauges success, then it's CJ with the most successful season. Though, all of this is affected by team success and not solely by individual success.

Matt Forte is far and beyond the best receiver both statistically and successfully. Dude was 2nd among all rookies, not just RB's, in receptions this season. But, that's not to diminish Johnson and Slaton as receivers, as they were #3 and #2 respectively among rookie RB's.

Thanks for humoring me, IT54. :)
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Old 01-04-2009, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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What the hell has this got to do with anything I said in my post you quoted???? It was about dispelling the head-scratching notion that CJ is nothing without White.....

But - the Bears completely sold out to stop the run against Tennessee, allowing Collins to have a career day almost. So the Titans rolled with that. You should know that. The Jets game, well they kinda abandonded the run early in that. As for the Ravens, they have a fairly good defense. They stop runningbacks - they're the best at doing that by far.

And it's not like Forte or Slaton didn't have bad games, so I'm not even sure what you point was meant to be if it was relevant to what I said, which it wasn't.
i sometimes just quote something, i doesnt really have to do with anything. Also even if we hadnt stopped that run, our pass defense is always horrible. its not like we didnt expect Collins to kill us.
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Old 01-04-2009, 09:33 PM    (permalink
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If this is going to be looked at empirically and dismiss CJ's lost game because his team was so good, then the notion of Forte's stats being more impressive because his team was bad should be dismissed as well.

As for who had the better season, there's no doubt that both players had excellent seasons - let alone rookie seasons. The biggest thing that stands out is that Forte has the quantity while CJ has the quality. Forte has the most yards, but CJ has the better averages. So it goes by whichever definition the holder has of success.

Theoretically, I think CJ had the better season, hands down. Forte would have had better averages had he ran behind the Titans OL, but CJ would have put up All-Pro numbers had he been given the ball 300+ times. If he gets the ball 65 more times at his average of 4.9 YPC, which puts him even with Forte in amount of carries, then CJ runs for 1,548 yards this season. If Matt Forte got the ball 251 times like CJ only got, then Forte doesn't even break 1,000-yds on the season.

In addition, CJ received more awards and recognition than Forte. He received a Pro Bowl bid, was t-2nd in ROTY votes, and even received a MVP vote. If that gauges success, then it's CJ with the most successful season. Though, all of this is affected by team success and not solely by individual success.
Jesus christ u really believe that? first of all, CJ made the probowl because he is from the ******* AFC. I mean the top4 RBs in rushing all are from the NFC. U really gonna pull the ************* ProBowl card? omg

also u do know that if CJ wouldve ran behind the Bears Oline. A. he would never have the same success as he had in Tennessee and B that means he would have a lower ypc.. also about the YPC argument...How bout them Jaguars, they should just give Montel Owens the ******* ball all day, he averages 21.5 ypc and 1 TD per carry! if he had 251 carries he would have 5000+ carries and 251 TDs! zomgz. Seriously if u give a RB more carries, his YPC is gonna drop. U do know that uh? Also, CJ is a homerun hitter. Its actually obvious and people should expect him to have a higher YPC.

U titans fans really believe that u got the goat do you?
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Old 01-04-2009, 11:51 PM    (permalink
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Jesus christ u really believe that? first of all, CJ made the probowl because he is from the ******* AFC. I mean the top4 RBs in rushing all are from the NFC. U really gonna pull the ************* ProBowl card? omg
Yes I'll pull it. Over the course of the season, CJ was either #1 or #2 in the AFC in rushing yards. The Pro Bowl bids aren't decided at the end of the season. The votes are tallied over the course of the season, and over the course of the season CJ was around 6th in the NFL in rushing. CJ earned his Pro Bowl bid, and while it's not the most credible honor nowadays, it's still something to brag about. The whole, "Pro Bowl is a joke," mantra going around is for sore fans who are mad that their team's player didn't make it. While a few players make it based on name recognition alone, many players deserve it and shouldn't have that honor diminished because of freakin' Roy Williams.

Quote:
also u do know that if CJ wouldve ran behind the Bears Oline. A. he would never have the same success as he had in Tennessee and B that means he would have a lower ypc.. also about the YPC argument...How bout them Jaguars, they should just give Montel Owens the ******* ball all day, he averages 21.5 ypc and 1 TD per carry! if he had 251 carries he would have 5000+ carries and 251 TDs! zomgz. Seriously if u give a RB more carries, his YPC is gonna drop. U do know that uh? Also, CJ is a homerun hitter. Its actually obvious and people should expect him to have a higher YPC.
Johnson probably wouldn't be as successful in Chicago, but who's to say he wouldn't still be successful? I wouldn't consider Houston to have a great OL, but Slaton still had just as good of season as CJ. The whole CJ behind the Bears OL argument is pure conjecture, and is horrifically overplayed. There are RB's around the NFL who run behind worse OL's than the Bears, yet they have a better YPC average. That's because while some OL's struggle in pass protection, run blocking isn't something OL's consistently struggle with. If they do, it's most likely because of a stellar defense or defensive player. YPC average is more reflective on the RB's speed and vision than it is on the OL.

LOL, Montel Owens? Give me a break dude. You know this is a non-point just as well as I do. Owens had 2 carries the entire year for 43 yards - one of them was a 41 yard run - and CJ had 251 carries the entire year. The two aren't the same thing because CJ's average was done on a consistent basis over the entire season. You know the two player's averages aren't the same, so don't waste my time.

If you give a RB more carries, his YPC will likely drop. But, it will balance out eventually. Montel Owens won't average 21 YPC if he has 200 carries, but his YPC will eventually flatline. It's wrong to claim that a RB with 300 carries will have a lesser YPC average than a RB with 250 carries has because he has 50 more carries. The difference between the two is about an extra 3.1 carries a game. When you get to that amount of carries, RB's are flatlining and their YPC isn't going to drastically jump when they have a huge run.

Also, lets look at Forte's stats up until Week 13. At the end of that game, he had 248 carries, which puts him at 3 fewer than CJ's final total. At that time, Forte had 1,012 yards and a 4.0 YPC average - only .1 YPC better than his final average. You did know that, huh?

CJ is not just a home-run hitter. He had 1 more run of 20+ yards than Forte, and 1 more run of 40+ yards than him too. His stats aren't skewed by a ton of big runs because Forte only had two fewer. Facts show that CJ had a better average on the short runs than Forte did. My math shows that Forte had approximately a 3.2 YPC average on his runs shorter than 20 yards, and CJ had approximately a 3.8 YPC average on his runs shorter than 20 yards. CJ has unwordly speed, but his vision is what ultimately separates him from other RB's.
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Old 01-05-2009, 07:50 AM    (permalink
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Boy, people really really really really overestimate our OLine. there is a reason why we basically look to find 2 new OGs and a RT.
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Old 01-05-2009, 10:29 PM    (permalink
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Pro Bowl alternate. Rookie of the Year. Voted by teammates as a Team Captain in his rookie season.

And he was in the film room this morning reviewing the Arizona game and other ones down the stretch, seeing his tendencies and what he needs to work on.

Is this guy for real? Really?
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