Cleveland Browns General Discussion

[Hail Browns]

One final thing, j05son. I am going to disagree with having Doss over Russell. When Russell was on the field he made all the calls for the secondary. He's smart, tough, works hard, and he's usually in the right place at the right time.

Doss is more of a run stopping S. He's not so good in coverage, and no matter how much I like him, I don't think he's better than anything we already have. I would like to see him come to Cleveland, but not at the price of Russell.

[Hail Browns]

Originally Posted by RoyHall#1

That's a good draft.

This would be my favorite draft for us. It gives us more depth and talent on the d-line. Someone to block for Droughns, Willie's replacement on the strongside, and a receiver who I think will be surprising if given the chance. I'm not a big fan of Droughns, but I do think he'd be ok behind a better o-line if he shared carries with someone.

If this is what we did, we'd probably try to trade down a few spots to make Branch a better value. That would give us an extra pick that I didn't use in that draft.

[Fresh]

This would be my favorite draft for us. It gives us more depth and talent on the d-line. Someone to block for Droughns, Willie's replacement on the strongside, and a receiver who I think will be surprising if given the chance. I'm not a big fan of Droughns, but I do think he'd be ok behind a better o-line if he shared carries with someone.

If this is what we did, we'd probably try to trade down a few spots to make Branch a better value. That would give us an extra pick that I didn't use in that draft.

While I'd still rather have Thomas, trading down and still getting Branch would be a great move.

Also, with our extra pick (3rd round, maybe?) we could afford to take Michael Bush if Droughns doesn't work. Which I don't think he will, even with our revamped o-line.

[Hail Browns]

Originally Posted by RoyHall#1

While I'd still rather have Thomas, trading down and still getting Branch would be a great move.

Also, with our extra pick (3rd round, maybe?) we could afford to take Michael Bush if Droughns doesn't work. Which I don't think he will, even with our revamped o-line.

I've never really liked Droughns, so maybe that would work. I think he'd be ok with the revamped line if we ran with 2 rb's. I've always liked the 2-back system as it keeps legs fresh and players don't wear down as quickly. Maybe Droughns/Wright or Droughns/Harrison.

[stl9erfan]

i'm still not sure why everyone wants a RT so bad. we could use one, but its not a nesecity. did everyone forget that we dont have a RG? i'm sure one of the younger guys will take over that spot, and now that davidson is gone, andruzzi will finally sit out. i'm also completely against the thought of moving bently to G. altho he'd be a great guard, he'd be a highly paid RG.

also, its starting to seem unlikely that staley will fall to us. if he even last's to the second rnd, it looks like raiders will take him, unless they do something stupid and draft a WR in the 2nd rnd.

as far as droughns goes. he's not that good. every keeps saying that he did good in denver, then had 1000 yard season in cleveland. he also set a franchise record for most carries in one season and didnt even average 4ypc. thats how he got to 1200 yrds. he doenst have great vision. he's not as agile as he tries to be. he's a 3rd and short back.

i've also let my hopes go on gettin clements. there's a lot of other teams looking at him, and when baxter comes back, we have 3 startes. i like bodden. dont really like baxter. but he's here and under a nice big contract. its not like our coner's are bad. its that we dont get any pressure on the opposing QB and he has all day to throw that ball.

Dcutch isnt "officially" gone. but as far as i know, he's still not in playing condition. the only word as of now is that he's probably gone.

sorry, this was kind of the "anti" post of everyone else's thoughts.

[Fresh]

Don't forget about Droughns/Bush.

Or, preferably, Bush/Droughns.

[Fresh]

i'm still not sure why everyone wants a RT so bad. we could use one, but its not a nesecity. did everyone forget that we dont have a RG? i'm sure one of the younger guys will take over that spot, and now that davidson is gone, andruzzi will finally sit out. i'm also completely against the thought of moving bently to G. altho he'd be a great guard, he'd be a highly paid RG.

I agree with the part about Bentley, but I feel that RT is a much bigger need than RG because of the talent and potential that is at RG, if not the experience. I believe Sowells will step up and take that spot next year. As for RT, I don't think we have anyone there who has what it takes to be a solid starter for 16 weeks, except Schaffer. But moving Schaffer there would give us a need at LT, which is why we should draft Thomas, if he's there.

[ChazMonk]

I don't post much, but am always reading up on my Brown's, so here is some tidbits I have come up with regarding what I think, though of course I am no expert.

I like to think I am always loyal to the players on my teams, so bear that in mind when I say this: If we are truly striving to be the best team we can be, how can we possibly be happy with Droughns and Fry as our starting RB and QB respectively? Droughns will never be an elite back and Fry will never be a Manning or Favre (I know, few QB's are, but why can't we strive for it, instead of being the Raven's of 2000 with Dilfer or the Bears of this year). So why are so many people against picking a Russell, Quinn or Peterson in the first round.

I know they are not "locks" to be Pro Bowl players, but this idea that we can build around these two has never made sense to me. (It just screams mediocrity)

Now, I know how bad our lines are, but if we can build through FA and the draft (from everything I have seen the 1st three rounds will be flush with linemen), then I say draft the best available talent for round 1, and to me that equals Peterson, Quinn, Russell or even Johnson. The truly successful teams always seem to draft elite players that work out with that first pick, so why can't we?

Besides, and someone tell me if I am right or wrong, I think I read where Savage does not like to draft linemen with the first pick.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. (riveting I know...)

[Freddy G]

Originally Posted by ChazMonk

I don't post much, but am always reading up on my Brown's, so here is some tidbits I have come up with regarding what I think, though of course I am no expert.

I like to think I am always loyal to the players on my teams, so bear that in mind when I say this: If we are truly striving to be the best team we can be, how can we possibly be happy with Droughns and Fry as our starting RB and QB respectively? Droughns will never be an elite back and Fry will never be a Manning or Favre (I know, few QB's are, but why can't we strive for it, instead of being the Raven's of 2000 with Dilfer or the Bears of this year). So why are so many people against picking a Russell, Quinn or Peterson in the first round.

I know they are not "locks" to be Pro Bowl players, but this idea that we can build around these two has never made sense to me. (It just screams mediocrity)

Now, I know how bad our lines are, but if we can build through FA and the draft (from everything I have seen the 1st three rounds will be flush with linemen), then I say draft the best available talent for round 1, and to me that equals Peterson, Quinn, Russell or even Johnson. The truly successful teams always seem to draft elite players that work out with that first pick, so why can't we?

Besides, and someone tell me if I am right or wrong, I think I read where Savage does not like to draft linemen with the first pick.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. (riveting I know...)

A ring is a ring, whether you win it with Trent Dilfer or Peyton Manning doesn't matter, and personally, i see enough potential in Frye to be a starting QB. Too early to tell if he is playoff caliber.

You're right, Savage, with the exception of an OT, just doesn't take OL day 1. He believes in getting FA OL and finding guys on day 2, rightfully so though, every year we see starters come from day 2.

[Freddy G]

Resign: Hank Fraley, Brian Russell, Simon Fraser

FA: Kris Dielman, Aubrayo Franklin, Jake Scott, Vinny Testaverde

Ideal draft (option 1)- Trade 2nd and 3rd rounder for early 20s 1st rounder.

1. Adrian Peterson- RB
1b. Adam Carriker- DE
4. James Marten- OT
5. Kenny Scott- CB
6. Louis Leonard- NT
7. Yamon Figurs- PR/WR

OL-
LT- Kevin Shaffer
LG- Kris Dielman
C- Hank Fraley
RG- Jake Scott
RT- James Marten

DL-
DE- Orpheus Roye, Simon Fraser
NT- Aubrayo Franklin, Ethan Kelly
DE- Adam Carriker, Orien Harris

Option 2.

1. Jamaal Anderson- DE
2. Tony Hunt/Mike Bush- RB
3. Ryan McBean/Justin Harrell- DE
4. James Marten-OT
5. Kenny Scott-CB
6. Louis Leonard-NT
7. Yamon Figurs-PR

OL-same

DL
DE- Orpheus Roye, Justin Harrell
NT- Aubrayo Franklin, Ethan Kelly
DE- Jamaal Anderson, Simon Fraser

Originally Posted by JoeMontainya

When a third string qb is contesting your starter, you need change.

2nd string, 3rd string is Dorsey, and since Anderson is what, 3 years younger than Frye, and has a better arm I don't see why a second stringer can't go after a first stringer. It's not like it hasn't happened before, Remember when Tom Brady was watching games with Drew Bledsoe running them. By the way, I think Both Frye and Anderson are 2nd stringers and that Brady Quinn is the long term solution [in my opinion].

Originally Posted by Hail Browns

Please enlighten me, or at least let me know where you get the idea from.

I read papers a lot at work. Try googling Daylon McCutcheon news and you'll find many many sources like this link.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...rt=NFL&id=2577

The Browns appear likely to release CB Daylon McCutcheon this off-season.
McCutcheon underwent microfracture surgery in November and his career could be over.
Source: Akron Beacon-Journal

^That's my source...I've read it in the Post Gazette and Plain Dealer as well.

Originally Posted by Hail Browns

I don't want Carr. He just hasn't shown me anything that we don't have right now.

Total agreement. Carr is nothing better than our current situation. The main thing the Browns need to do this offseason is figure out if Charlie is OUR GUY! If he is, then draft accordingly to make the offense around him better. If not, acquiring players like Carr is worthless with two potential franchise QB's who could be sitting there waiting for us to draft them.

Originally Posted by Roy Hall#1

Thanks j05son.

No problem. ANYTHING FOR A BROWNS FAN!

Originally Posted by Roy Hall#1

That doesn't solve our RT problem, but I like all of the moves you have.

My draft was for the RT. I would absolutely love it if we drafted someone Staley in the second. If not him, grab Ugoh, Harris, Free, Marten in the draft and have them play RT or move Shaffar to his natural position (blocking the QB's sight side). IF we didn't go the route of OT via draft, Butler would be starting there; Esp since he was just given an extension this offseason making me believe that he has shown something to Phil/Romeo.

I would like to see him come to Cleveland, but not at the price of Russell.

Will Russell even be back? With Jones emergence and Phil's solid belief in Poole would we even bring back Russell? I don't think so. I really don't think we'll bring in Doss. I just think if we did, he would be cheap since he wants to be here and he has stated to the Plain Dealer in an interview that he would love if Phil could fit him in with our crowed safties...So he knows we have talent, and I just view it as him being able to stop the run (we ranked 4th to last) and could move Poole to CB [MAYBE!] with him bringing depth to our secondary, and front box, along with being CHEAP!

Originally Posted by royHall#1

Also, with our extra pick (3rd round, maybe?) we could afford to take Michael Bush if Droughns doesn't work. Which I don't think he will, even with our revamped o-line.

i like Bush a lot. With his injury and his inability to preform at the combine, he should fall and would be a great value pick where ever he eventually goes at. I wouldn't mind if we pulled the trigger on him in the 3rd. I think Droughens would be fine though, and that he's not a neccasity, I just like the guy.

Originally Posted by jsimmsy21

i'm still not sure why everyone wants a RT so bad. we could use one, but its not a nesecity. did everyone forget that we dont have a RG? i'm sure one of the younger guys will take over that spot, and now that davidson is gone, andruzzi will finally sit out. i'm also completely against the thought of moving bently to G. altho he'd be a great guard, he'd be a highly paid RG.

also, its starting to seem unlikely that staley will fall to us. if he even last's to the second rnd, it looks like raiders will take him, unless they do something stupid and draft a WR in the 2nd rnd.

as far as droughns goes. he's not that good. every keeps saying that he did good in denver, then had 1000 yard season in cleveland. he also set a franchise record for most carries in one season and didnt even average 4ypc. thats how he got to 1200 yrds. he doenst have great vision. he's not as agile as he tries to be. he's a 3rd and short back.

i've also let my hopes go on gettin clements. there's a lot of other teams looking at him, and when baxter comes back, we have 3 startes. i like bodden. dont really like baxter. but he's here and under a nice big contract. its not like our coner's are bad. its that we dont get any pressure on the opposing QB and he has all day to throw that ball.

Dcutch isnt "officially" gone. but as far as i know, he's still not in playing condition. the only word as of now is that he's probably gone.

sorry, this was kind of the "anti" post of everyone else's thoughts.

1. Agreed. Bentley is a center. Keep him there.
2. Scott's new mock has him going after us 2nd round. It's always a possibility, esp with the combine approaching. I was trying to be realistic in my draft with Harris and Ugoh being available 2nd/3rd rounds...Butler isn't terrible. Also, you never know what that genius Al Davis will do. The Davis' ruin teams (Al, Butch...)
3. We've also never had a passing threat to keep safties and backers honost. With RD being the power back and Harrison being the speedster, we have an underrated 2 back scheme that is behind an old unreliable line. I'd like to see how they do with a better QB and line to help out our offense as a whole...
4. Clements is a Shaker Heights native and OSU grad. Plus we have the money to peruse him if we WANTED TO. Main phrase wanted to. He could be ours if Phil decides to. We are looking to be a good team. How many games did we lose this last season under 10? We weren't getting blown out which is a plus for rebuilding squads.
5. Nothing is known for sure, but all the 'rumors' say he's gone.
6. Sorry for my anti post buddy. :) :p

Originally Posted by ChazMonk

Now, I know how bad our lines are, but if we can build through FA and the draft (from everything I have seen the 1st three rounds will be flush with linemen), then I say draft the best available talent for round 1, and to me that equals Peterson, Quinn, Russell or even Johnson. The truly successful teams always seem to draft elite players that work out with that first pick, so why can't we?

Besides, and someone tell me if I am right or wrong, I think I read where Savage does not like to draft linemen with the first pick.

You are totally right. Phil doesn't draft interrior lineman first day. Feeling that Guards can be found later in the draft. He'll draft tackels though, evident by Ogden. He is also a BPA guy, which means, Quinn, Russell, or Peterson will likely be our picks. For they have the most value at our pick unless we trade down. Branch seems sexy, but with Offense being the focus point of this years draft (SOURCE: Phil's press conferences) I believe one of those 3 will be a Brown. I am all for passing on Thomas round 1, try to get an inexperienced guard FA, then draft one or try out one of our youngins and draft one of the OT's that are readily available, Free, Staley, Harris, Ugoh, Marten, etc. later to finish our Oline project. Behind that, Quinn/Russel or Peterson should make our offense much better than it did last year which won't put our defense in such bad situation turning those close games we lost to games we can easily win.

Lastly, unless Carriker has a pitiful Combine, we will have to give up a lot for him. He is shotting up EVERYONE'S mock draft boards, us, nfl network, espn....

[jriles0522]

Does anyone have access to the browns scout website? The feature article says that an exit strategy is unfolding for Adalius Thomas and that Cleveland could be the destination for him. Just wanted to know what more it said if someone could summarize it. Thanks.

[keylime_5]

I saw the same thing and I would love to have Thomas here to play outside linebacker over the old and often hurt Willie McGinest. I think Wimbley/Thomas would give us probably the 2nd best duo of OLBs other than Merriman/Phillips in san diego.

[jriles0522]

Originally Posted by keylime_5

I saw the same thing and I would love to have Thomas here to play outside linebacker over the old and often hurt Willie McGinest. I think Wimbley/Thomas would give us probably the 2nd best duo of OLBs other than Merriman/Phillips in san diego.

On the same topic, i read he turns 30 before the season starts. How many solid years do you think he has left before he starts to decline like McGinest. Three, four, five? Just curious.

[stl9erfan]

i'be posted this before. but now we got some more ppl posting on a consitant basis, so here goes again.

what does everyone think about Ian Scott playing DE for us? he's a physical player, not that slow. he could easily clog running lanes on the outside for us. just looking for opinions.

[Fresh]

Originally Posted by ChazMonk

I don't post much, but am always reading up on my Brown's, so here is some tidbits I have come up with regarding what I think, though of course I am no expert.

I like to think I am always loyal to the players on my teams, so bear that in mind when I say this: If we are truly striving to be the best team we can be, how can we possibly be happy with Droughns and Fry as our starting RB and QB respectively? Droughns will never be an elite back and Fry will never be a Manning or Favre (I know, few QB's are, but why can't we strive for it, instead of being the Raven's of 2000 with Dilfer or the Bears of this year). So why are so many people against picking a Russell, Quinn or Peterson in the first round.

If we are truly striving to be the best team we can be, how can we be happy with a sub-par offensive line not allowing any of our quarterback's or running back's any chance (seemingly) to do their jobs correctly year after year?

[keylime_5]

Ian Scott is no fit at DE for us at all. But don't worry, there are plenty of guys who are good 3-4 DEs on the market this year (even though most of them are over 30 years of age): Robaire Smith, Vonnie Holliday, Cory Redding, Kevin Carter, and Kimo vonOelhoffen (who is extremely washed up ). At least one of those guys will start for the Browns next year.

[mcdlaxbonz13]

has anyone else noticed alot of people giving the browns a cb in round 2 i kind of find that weird considering our depth at cb was well tested this year and i must say they held their own. since minter will be healthy i really don't see cleveland addressing cb at all during the first day maybe not even the entire draft.

[keylime_5]

If we don't sign a guy in free agency who can be a good starting CB opposite Bodden then our hand might be forced to draft a CB in early round 2 like a Chris Houston, Daymeion Hughes, or a Marcus McCauley. We have a hole at that spot and Daven Holly is a better fit at #3 or 4 CB

[Freddy G]

Originally Posted by keylime_5

If we don't sign a guy in free agency who can be a good starting CB opposite Bodden then our hand might be forced to draft a CB in early round 2 like a Chris Houston, Daymeion Hughes, or a Marcus McCauley. We have a hole at that spot and Daven Holly is a better fit at #3 or 4 CB

I'll take Brodney Pool over all of them. Assuming we resign Russell.

[ChazMonk]

Originally Posted by RoyHall#1

If we are truly striving to be the best team we can be, how can we be happy with a sub-par offensive line not allowing any of our quarterback's or running back's any chance (seemingly) to do their jobs correctly year after year?

True, but to that I say our best bet is FA for the line and picks 2-7. Getting an outstanding QB and RB would be more realistic with the 1st round pick. And my main point is we will not win a super bowl with our current qb and rb situation, so why not strive for the best at those positions as well? I for one have never understood all the hoopla surrounding Fry, not that I think he is terrible. And when was the last time the Browns had a "blue chip" RB? And why not? I know the line is to blame as well, but I for one am completely tired of the 31st ranked running attack in the league every year.

I totally agree we need the trenches fixed to go to the next level, but having an outstanding backfield would be nice as well, and would even stoke the interest of fans.

has anyone else noticed alot of people giving the browns a cb in round 2 i kind of find that weird considering our depth at cb was well tested this year and i must say they held their own.

The Browns arguably have one of the worste DB groups in the NFL, also the most unexsperienced. And unhealthy to top it off.

To say we dont need another good DB is crazy. We had a horrible secondary last year, the only reason we wouldnt consider drafting one is because we have young players and maybe they still need time to develope which is a typical cleveland player (never maxes potential).

[Fresh]

Originally Posted by ChazMonk

True, but to that I say our best bet is FA for the line and picks 2-7. Getting an outstanding QB and RB would be more realistic with the 1st round pick. And my main point is we will not win a super bowl with our current qb and rb situation, so why not strive for the best at those positions as well? I for one have never understood all the hoopla surrounding Fry, not that I think he is terrible. And when was the last time the Browns had a "blue chip" RB? And why not? I know the line is to blame as well, but I for one am completely tired of the 31st ranked running attack in the league every year.

I totally agree we need the trenches fixed to go to the next level, but having an outstanding backfield would be nice as well, and would even stoke the interest of fans.

So basically we both think that we need to strive for a great backfield and o-line (obviously :roll: ) but there's an issue with money and only 1 pick for an elite player. I feel that o-line is a more pressing need, but, don't get me wrong, I would not be upset at drafting AP in the 1st round. However, I'm still on Charlie's bandwagon and will be ticked off immensely if we take Quinn or Russel.

Also, look at Tampa Bay about 5 years ago. Who did they have behind center? Brad johnson with Warrick Dunn behind him? That's hardly great. Granted, they had an amazing defense, and it is a rare occurrence that a team wins the super bowl without an elite RB or QB, but it can be done.

Lastly, you've prompted me to change my sig, although I'm still putting Thomases name first.

[Fresh]

Originally Posted by JoeMontainya

The Browns arguably have one of the worste DB groups in the NFL, also the most unexsperienced. And unhealthy to top it off.

To say we dont need another good DB is crazy. We had a horrible secondary last year, the only reason we wouldnt consider drafting one is because we have young players and maybe they still need time to develope which is a typical cleveland player (never maxes potential).

I agree that our secondary held it's own all year even with all of the injuries, and strongly disagree that we have one of the worst DB groups in the league. I thought our secondary was a bright spot this season, and, when healthy, I believe it to be a top 10 secondary in the league. Granted, we are missing another good starting corner opposite Bodden, who is a top ten corner when healthy. And we have a strong core of safeties, led by Sean Jones who is an elite safety and the best player on the Brown's.

When our front seven can't consistently pressure the QB, it's hard for a secondary to look good, and I think our d-line is the main concern on the defensive side of the ball.

I totally agree with Cleveland player's never even coming close to living up to our expectations, but or secondary exceeded mine this year.

[Iamcanadian]

I don't think you can rule out Quinn. He would be a huge upgrade over Frye. Peterson is a huge risk, he looks good on paper but couldn't even get through a college season for the last 2 years. What good is he if he can't stay on the field?? Thomas will probably be drafted by Detroit.
I think it is going to come down to player's workouts and personal interviews. If Quinn passes with flying colours, he'll be our pick , if not, then it's Johnson or a trade down, because after Russell, Thomas, Quinn and Johnson, it's a pretty good dropoff in talent to the #5 prospect. These 4 guys are the elite prospects in this draft, at least before the combine and personal workouts, so unless some player blows the scouts away, we will have to take one or trade down. It's pretty feasible as the demand for Quinn or Johnson could be very tempting for some top 12 NFL team. We won't go any lower than that.