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Old 01-05-2009, 02:17 PM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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Originally Posted by Bucs_Rule View Post
Have a QB with no arms and it doesn't work very well either.
well u could still snap it to ur RB all day ;)
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Old 01-05-2009, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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I don't have a problem with Peyton winning, but I'm baffled that Philip Rivers got screwed so bad in the voting. I thought he should have been at least a close second. Pennington deserved much more consideration as well.
I honestly wonder how long ESPN is going to continue to play clips of Rivers yelling at Cutler along with his highlights. It's been a year already. Is it affecting his perception in the public eye/media? Tough to say for sure, but I'd have to go with yes. It takes a special series of events to miss the Pro Bowl with the best stats in the league on a playoff team.
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Old 01-05-2009, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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I honestly wonder how long ESPN is going to continue to play clips of Rivers yelling at Cutler along with his highlights. It's been a year already. Is it affecting his perception in the public eye/media? Tough to say for sure, but I'd have to go with yes. It takes a special series of events to miss the Pro Bowl with the best stats in the league on a playoff team.
Philip Rivers is like the John Mcenroe of the NFL. People remeber the temper and the yelling but sometimes forget that how smart of a player he is. Philip Rivers might be the most cerebral QB in the NFL.
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Old 01-05-2009, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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Peyton Manning has always been the regular season MVP, he could have won six or seven if people weren't so bored by his excellence. Unfortunately I have not seen someone so consistently great in the regular season and so consistently below average in the playoffs.
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Old 01-05-2009, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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Peyton Manning has always been the regular season MVP, he could have won six or seven if people weren't so bored by his excellence. Unfortunately I have not seen someone so consistently great in the regular season and so consistently below average in the playoffs.
Peyton Manning 348-565 4207 yards 22tds 17ints 7.4ypa 61.6% 84.9 qb rating
Tom Brady 372-595 3954 yards 26tds 12ints 6.6ypa 62.5% 88.0 qb rating
Brett Favre 438-721 5311 yards 39tds 28ints 7.4ypa 60.7% 85.2 qb rating.
There is not much of difference than these 3 so what makes Peyton Manning so below average.
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Old 01-05-2009, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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I honestly wonder how long ESPN is going to continue to play clips of Rivers yelling at Cutler along with his highlights. It's been a year already. Is it affecting his perception in the public eye/media? Tough to say for sure, but I'd have to go with yes. It takes a special series of events to miss the Pro Bowl with the best stats in the league on a playoff team.
Not only did he have the best stats, 2 of the Pro Bowl QBs had very bad seasons Pro Bowl wise. Last season Cutler and Farve wouldn't even rank in top 5 for the AFC.
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Old 01-05-2009, 09:20 PM    (permalink
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Favre won't even go anyway so Rivers will be there
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Old 01-05-2009, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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Favre won't even go anyway so Rivers will be there
That would be great seeing Cutler and Rivers on the sidelines during that game. It would make the pro bowl slightly more interesting. Can someone say cat fight? lol
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Old 01-06-2009, 12:00 AM    (permalink
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Philip Rivers is like the John Mcenroe of the NFL. People remeber the temper and the yelling but sometimes forget that how smart of a player he is. Philip Rivers might be the most cerebral QB in the NFL.
Not the most cerebral. That away goes to Peyton. Definitely the most enthusiastic though, like a young Favre only without the excess mistakes. Merriman had it right when he said that Rivers had the mentality of a linebacker playing QB.
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Old 01-06-2009, 12:24 AM    (permalink
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Not the most cerebral. That away goes to Peyton. Definitely the most enthusiastic though, like a young Favre only without the excess mistakes. Merriman had it right when he said that Rivers had the mentality of a linebacker playing QB.
He is nothing like Favre. He is more Bernie Kosar. Rivers has a below average arm and might be the slowest starting QB in the NFL but he still is a top 3 QB.
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Old 01-06-2009, 09:48 AM    (permalink
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just to be clear, are you suggesting that taking the chargers to the playoffs after the pro bowl teams had been announced should've made a difference in the pro bowl voting? or did you just want to mention it for fun?
Mostly for fun, but it's not a completely meritless point. t's just a further illustration of how wrong the voting got it. Presumably the justification for those guys getting in over Rivers was "Well, they're on winning teams." You can't argue that they beat him out statistically.

Well, the QBs who got voted into the Pro Bowl are sitting home now, and each of them would still be playing if not for one more loss at the hands of Rivers and the Chargers, so in the end justice is served and I've no reason to complain. This is the MVP thread, I'll try not to be too far OT.
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:59 PM    (permalink
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He is nothing like Favre. He is more Bernie Kosar. Rivers has a below average arm and might be the slowest starting QB in the NFL but he still is a top 3 QB.
Physically he's the most like Kosar. But personality wise, he's the closest to Favre. Hence, the reason why I said enthusiasm. People get on Rivers' case about trash talking, but they forgot that Favre was the biggest trash talking QB of all (who didn't laugh when he mocked Ty Detmer).
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Old 01-08-2009, 04:56 AM    (permalink
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Peyton Manning 348-565 4207 yards 22tds 17ints 7.4ypa 61.6% 84.9 qb rating
Tom Brady 372-595 3954 yards 26tds 12ints 6.6ypa 62.5% 88.0 qb rating
Brett Favre 438-721 5311 yards 39tds 28ints 7.4ypa 60.7% 85.2 qb rating.
There is not much of difference than these 3 so what makes Peyton Manning so below average.

Look at the individual games instead of the raw statistics. He ate up weak Denver and Kansas City defenses, but for the most part he's been mediocre at best. The one exception was the last AFCCG against the Patriots.
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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Look at the individual games instead of the raw statistics. He ate up weak Denver and Kansas City defenses, but for the most part he's been mediocre at best. The one exception was the last AFCCG against the Patriots.
IIRC Peyton had a pretty *meh* game against the Patriots - he threw 2 picks in the first half I believe, one for a TD. Also, his game winning drive was sealed by Joseph Addai. Again, that's what I remember, I could be wrong.

This falls into what I found here: http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/...ushes-manning/

I'm not gonna be as harsh as Ketchman, but I do believe that Manning is merely a mediocre playoff QB. It's not all his fault, neither is it all his well-doing, but as Shiver says, look at the individual game stats.
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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Throwing some more wood into the fire.

First truth.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9...is-done-in-S.D.
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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1. Peyton only threw one INT in the '07 AFCCG. The pick six to Samuel. Because Samuel covered Harrison like a blanket and read that play better than he did. Just like Ty Law in the Wild Card game earlier than postseason.

In fact, at least 6 of the INTs that Peyton threw in the '06 playoff run were pass attempts to Marvin Harrison. Harrison, of 2 career postseason TDs thanks to one game against Denver, is the one that truly stinks up the joint in the playoffs.

It's not a coincidence that Peyton couldn't win a playoff game until Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark came along, so he actually had someone to throw to in the postseason.



2. Peyton has played in 15 playoff games and counting: find me one player who, in 15 postseason games, has played overall as well as Peyton has in the regular season. Nobody. The closest in Joe Montana in Super Bowls, but that's it.

Or even played that well in the postseason against the teams that have eliminated the Colts after 02 (03 Pats, 04 Pats, 05 Steelers, 07 Chargers, 08 Chargers). Other than Jake Delhomme in 03 I suppose, there's nobody.

But we expect it of Peyton. Heck, I expect it of Peyton.

It's so easy to overlook that he clearly outplayed Phillip Rivers last weekend, it wasn't even close. That Peyton played well, in fact. But the Colts lost, so now he "choked" again.
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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Geo brings up an excellent point on the situation. Now while i don't feel Peyton should be held totally unaccountable for his playoff inadequacies, I think the biggest culprit is in fact Marvin Harrison. It has always been Harrison.

Harrison even during their SB run, didn't do a damn thing. He never has in the playoffs. He's the ultimate choker.
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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1. Peyton only threw one INT in the '07 AFCCG. The pick six to Samuel. Because Samuel covered Harrison like a blanket and read that play better than he did. Just like Ty Law in the Wild Card game earlier than postseason.

In fact, at least 6 of the INTs that Peyton threw in the '06 playoff run were pass attempts to Marvin Harrison. Harrison, of 2 career postseason TDs thanks to one game against Denver, is the one that truly stinks up the joint in the playoffs.
1. Thanks for clarifying on that - I had forgotten.

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In fact, at least 6 of the INTs that Peyton threw in the '06 playoff run were pass attempts to Marvin Harrison. Harrison, of 2 career postseason TDs thanks to one game against Denver, is the one that truly stinks up the joint in the playoffs.
Interesting stat, but not as relevant as you seem to be implying. They are only relevant if 1) a catchable ball is bobbled by Harrison and taken by the defense in the air 2) Harrison clearly ran the wrong route. These are the only ways that Harrison can be blamed for INTs, otherwise it's on the QB (or perhaps the O-line, but in such situations prudent QBs don't throw the ball in the air).

This is all assuming that you are indeed correct about this stat. It would be nice to see some proof.

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2. Peyton has played in 15 playoff games and counting: find me one player who, in 15 postseason games, has played overall as well as Peyton has in the regular season. Nobody. The closest in Joe Montana in Super Bowls, but that's it.
I honestly don't understand what you mean here.
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Old 01-08-2009, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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My point: No one is going to play as well in the postseason overall as Peyton has in the regular season. You're facing much better teams, better defenses, that you're just not going to see those same type of great numbers/excellence/dominance whatever you want to call it.

Especially when the Colts couldn't run the ball as was the case this year. When the Colts can run the ball well, that offense is darn near unstoppable. They'll score touchdowns.

Unfortunately, the running attack was horrid this year and their receivers had trouble getting open much of this season (Peyton had to be really precise), and they still lead the league in third down conversion percentage (over 50%) and sack rate. With a struggling OL.

That's why good 3-4 teams give the Colts so much trouble. They can stop the run with their three or four, and have their secondary play Cover 2 Man. And that leaves the linebackers to either blitz or drop back to congest the only area of the field Peyton has to throw the ball.

Now, personally, I thought the Colts should have passed the ball to the RBs more against SD. But of course Tom Moore disappoints yet again. I would definitely place a lot of blame on Moore for the offense's struggles in the postseason.
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Old 01-08-2009, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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Many people just don't like Payton Manning for one reason or another. Trying to blame him for the loss vs San Diego is a joke. He passed for 310 yards a TD and no INT's. The Colts running backs combined for 56 yards on 20 carries for a whopping 2.8 yards per carry. The Colts defense let a munchkin run all over them. Yeah, it was all Peyton's fault. :D
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Old 01-08-2009, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
Many people just don't like Payton Manning for one reason or another. Trying to blame him for the loss vs San Diego is a joke. He passed for 310 yards a TD and no INT's. The Colts running backs combined for 56 yards on 20 carries for a whopping 2.8 yards per carry. The Colts defense let a munchkin run all over them. Yeah, it was all Peyton's fault. :D
well manning got all the credit when they were winning why not take the blame for losing?
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Just let it go RWO.
We as Ravens fans are clearly scum of the earth, and should just be happy that these great people, who cheer for nothing than the finest, morally impeccable players, playing on the finest, most morally impeccable teams, will grace us with their presence, and words of wisdom.

John Wall
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4CbQGBbUOw
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Old 01-08-2009, 03:51 PM    (permalink
Halsey
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Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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well manning got all the credit when they were winning why not take the blame for losing?
Why not just quit pretending any one player in football, especially modern day NFL, can single handedly win or lose a game.
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Old 01-08-2009, 04:09 PM    (permalink
RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
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RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Why not just quit pretending any one player in football, especially modern day NFL, can single handedly win or lose a game.
right i agree but thats not how it is. i mean he won MVP because he "single handedly won 9 games in a row" so if he gets that label than why not blame him
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Originally Posted by SunTzu_22 View Post
Just let it go RWO.
We as Ravens fans are clearly scum of the earth, and should just be happy that these great people, who cheer for nothing than the finest, morally impeccable players, playing on the finest, most morally impeccable teams, will grace us with their presence, and words of wisdom.

John Wall
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4CbQGBbUOw
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Old 01-08-2009, 04:12 PM    (permalink
Halsey
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Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Halsey is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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right i agree but thats not how it is. i mean he won MVP because he "single handedly won 9 games in a row" so if he gets that label than why not blame him
Somebody has to win MVP. Ray Lewis won a Sper Bowl MVP. That doesn't mean anyone was saying he won the Super Bowl by himself.
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Old 01-08-2009, 04:14 PM    (permalink
CC.SD
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CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CC.SD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Why not just quit pretending any one player in football, especially modern day NFL, can single handedly win or lose a game.


:D
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